Luke, Mara, the Force, and Sex in the Expanded Universe (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by HanSolOKniser3, Jul 14, 2004.

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  1. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    FYI, let's discuss the weird attraction that Rogue Squadron pilots have for Bothan females. I understand perfectly that sexual tastes will change in 25,000 years. Basically, human is not the only thing that individuals will go out and "dance" with. OTOH, Gavin's attraction to a Bothan is meant to be a lesson in tolerance I think.

    Even if, again, I veer on the side that biology would pretty much rule out most attractions.
  2. Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2003
    star 6
    A lot of Rebel pilots seem to like members of other species. Wedge, Corran, Wes, Hobbie, Gavin, Face...
  3. Emperor_Time Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2007
    star 4
    My guess is that the Rogue Squadron pilots like the females of any mammal species? [face_thinking]
  4. Havac Former Moderator

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    Though to be fair to Wedge and Face, their aliens were humans-but.
  5. Rohniss Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2005
    star 4
    Debauched Rebels and their dog/horse/fish/ love... *sigh* this is why I support the Third Way...
  6. Emperor_Time Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2007
    star 4
  7. masterskywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2001
    star 5
    To answer Coops question from my Icarus fated thread, I will explain the following.

    If a chick I'm dating is for all intents and purpose 99% human, that's fair game and understandable that attraction can occur. If the face is exactly the same and all that's different is cat ears, a tail, or pointy elf ears and pretty much everything else is human analog, THAT at least I can understand.

    [image=http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u200/shadowladyofflames/anime/Elf.jpg]

    Or,

    [image=http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/elmerthefudd/secura.jpg]

    It's been a while from my Psychology of attraction classes, but basically average faces are the most attractive to humans. The MORE extreme and asymmetrical facial features get, the uglier we perceive a person to be.

    I can't get on the other hand, making out with a bipedal version of this:

    [image=http://thetalkinghorse.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/mr-ed-gets-the-last-laugh.jpg]

    I'm not taking that home to mother.
  8. Darth_Carl99 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2008
    star 2
    If you bothered to read the X-Wing books a bit more closely it's pretty clear IMHO that apart from being shorter, stockier, covered in fur and having a slightly muzzel like mouth, Bothans are basiclly human.

    It's the subsuquent artists that have screwed it up.
  9. Emperor_Time Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2007
    star 4
    But the X-Wing comic books don't have the Bothans look that normal which were written by Michael Stackpole who also wrote the books too. :cool:
  10. Rohniss Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2005
    star 4
    If you bothered to read the X-Wing books a bit more closely it's pretty clear IMHO that apart from being shorter, stockier, covered in fur and having a slightly muzzel like mouth, Bothans are basiclly human.

    It's the subsuquent artists that have screwed it up.

    [image=http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/54/039_8892~Planet-of-the-Apes-Posters.jpg]

    Heston is that you?
  11. Darth_Carl99 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2008
    star 2
    But he didn't do the art, and probably didn't even get much of a say in it, the X-Wing books are pretty clear on the humonoid nature of Bothans IMHO, so the artwork is probably not how he intended them to look IMHO. He was probably told to just accept how it was done and work with it or somthing equally stupid.
  12. Emperor_Time Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2007
    star 4
    But even though he didn't do the art does not mean that he did not explain and show the artist on how the Bothans should look in the comic. :cool:
  13. Darth_Carl99 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2008
    star 2
    But weather the artists actually followed his descriptions is what i'm questioning. The artwork just looks so difrent from the X-Wing descriptions that they really aren't more than mildly similar. Their's no sign in the artwork IMHO, that the artists even tried to match the X-Wing descriptions.
  14. Emperor_Time Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2007
    star 4
    I see and it seems that we cannot finish this argument unless we get the answer of this question from Michael Stackpole himself. :(
  15. masterskywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2001
    star 5
    Here's the scientific principal I was talking about:

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_n19_v137/ai_9028391

    There is no way in God's great universe Gavin should find horse-Asyr attractive on a physical level biologically speaking. Even *babies* know the difference between a pretty and ugly face, and react accordingly.
  16. johnthejedi24 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 2004
    star 3
    Than why do me and some other people find some other species attractive? Hell you could set me up with a Bothan, Selonian or Barabel in real life and I would hit it. As long as they keep their claws under control.[face_worried] :) I find many different races of Humans attractive too.

    In a physical sense do you mean in real life? If people would find non-humans un-attractive, than why do some people commit beastiality with animals? Wouldn't they themselves consider it completely impossible. Sorry to bring that subject up.:mad:
  17. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Actually, I never quite got the impression Gavin *DID* find her attractive on a physical level. He was scared of her and kinda repulsed before his lawyer pleaded his way out of it. I take the assumption that whatever happens between those two is not on any biochemical level but a physical one.
  18. johnthejedi24 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 2004
    star 3
    What Lawyer? I know of the scene in the bar where Gavin does not want to dance with Asyr; she calls him a bigot. He seems a bit uncomfortable with the whole situation, but where does a lawyer come into this?o_O I think he found her attractive on both a physical/biological and emotional level.
  19. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nawara_Ven

    And I don't think he found her attractive because he WAS scared of her and sort of a bigot. He was described as uncomfortable in the environment they were in.
  20. Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2003
    star 6
    The EU has gone through a number of revisions of the Bothan facial structure. I'm partial to the "multiple subspecies" explanation, though there are instances where individuals (e.g. Borsk) belong to different "races" in different pictures.

    There are the ape-like Bothans, primarily from WEG and SotE and other sources from that era. There are the long-faced horse-like Bothans, which first appeared in the TTT comics (IIRC) and have been the "modern" Bothan appearance ever since. There are also the dog-like Bothans, which show up in Requiem for a Rogue. And of course there are a number of "intermediate forms" that seem to be combinations of the above, intentionally or unintentionally.

    Valiento, an old poster here, compiled a small website on the issue. Be aware that it contains speculation, like Borsk getting facial reconstruction surgery. :p

    That Asyr picture is pretty revolting, but I could see Gavin falling for something more like this...
  21. cs47 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2007
    star 1
    And don´t forget Fay!



    If i understand well what masterskywalker has said:



    In that case, Devaronian, Felacatian and Farghul females are OK?


  22. Eleventh_Guard Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2005
    star 5
    Either the Geocities transfer limit is very low, or a lot of people have been clicking on that link, because I'm getting a site unavailable screen. :(
  23. Darth_Carl99 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2008
    star 2
    [image=http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/7053/asyrsw9.jpg]

    Their you go.
  24. masterskywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2001
    star 5
    Ah great! Someone finally found that picture. Now you know I'm not crazy. :p Now to answer a question:

    "In that case, Devaronian, Felacatian and Farghul females are OK?"

    [image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/c/ca/Jeisel.jpg]

    Looks pretty human to me except for the horn knobs. Female Hellboy anyone?

    [image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/f/f5/Felacatian2.JPG]

    Seems no more absurd than any sort of sci-fi changeling relationship we've seen for years.

    [image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/2/27/Farghul.JPG]

    About as different as the Japanese designed Bothans. Much better than Mr. Ed.

    Looks fine to me. [face_blush] ;)

    And I'm certainly not saying its impossible to fall in love without physical attraction taking place. I'm simply pointing out it's hardwired into human DNA for a purpose, other wise our species would have gone extinct from trying to mate with trees and prairie dogs.
  25. DarkScythe Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 2
    Interesting article I'm not so sure it's a guarantee that Gavin wouldn't find Horse Asyr attractive though. The article certainly sets up an interesting nature vs nurture debate. Rather it's in our DNA or something acquired in early infancy through social exposure. It's one of those areas that definitely needs more study.

    Part of the problem is there are human beings who claim to be turned on by anthropomorphic horses
    and I'm not aware of any study where someone set out to test if folks who claim to be attracted to anthropomorphic animals are actually physically aroused by the sight of them or not.

    Also another problem is that there is no real world equivalent of the GFFA in existence on this planet. This is a galaxy where Aliens are normal. A talking anthropomorphic dog walking the streets of New York would probably cause a panic in the real world.

    However on Coruscant it's perfectly natural to see a talking dog creature having lunch with a squid thing in a cafe while the waitress is a red woman who flirts with both of them. To the galaxy far far away encountering things that are utterly alien to folks in the real world is just a natural part of life.

    It's probably why the idea of being against interspecies relationships is considers backwards and bigoted in universe. It's probably confined most of the time to places that are very homogeneous.



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