Luke, Mara, the Force, and Sex in the Expanded Universe (Spoilers Allowed)

the entire point on the ban is to have all Jedi make rational, logical, moral decisions, like facing Dooku instead of jumping out and helping Padme.

Uh, right. Facing Dooku wasn't exactly the most logical decision made in AOTC, considering that both Ani and Obi got totally pwnz0red.

 

a_r, if Anakin had had control in that duel, Dooku's gone. Form II might be the best or nearly the best in 1 on 1, but Maul's Form VII is way better for a 1 on 2. Dooku's simply not quick enough to deal with two swordsmen as gifted as those two.

 

HanSolOKniser3:
Does it seem to anyone that the quote CoW uses from "Vision of the Force" could imply that at least some of Mara's Force training with Luke was done sexually?

Sorry! I certainly didn't intend to imply that with my quote.

Pellaeon-Firke:
1. It's strongly implied in various sources (IIRC) and I've always assumed it to be so that Jedi have kids without attachment.

If so, I definitely *don't* like it. That's like saying that the Jedi condoned irresponsibility: Have the kids, but no attachments to them or their mothers. Sounds like a *bad* idea to me!

Personally, I think the OJO, while it had a few too many relationship restrictions, is still better than the NJO; it allowed friendship,

And friendship can lead to anger and revenge too. Obi-wan was very close to the darkside, if he didn't cross over it, when he fought and killed Darth Maul after the death of his Master, Qui-gon. Just because the person isn't your parent, sibling, husband/wife, or child, doesn't mean you can't form *very* close attachments that might get you into trouble with the Darkside. And I would think that the very young Jedi would transfer their emotional feelings to their teachers in place of their parents. So what's the gain by denying relationships between mates, parents, and children if the same emotions are just going to be transferred to someone else?

You have Luke/Mara, which resulted in a premature promotion and some training problems;

You seem to have decided there were training problems between Luke and Mara. I don't happen to agree. And we don't really know that the "promotion" was premature. Mara could have completely trained one or more Jedi during the years between VotF and VP that we just don't happen to know about. That would qualify her to be a Jedi Master.

And since Luke was able to learn most of his Jedi skills in just a few weeks, it's very possible that Mara was trained during SQ and VP. She *was* already a Jedi in VotF, she just felt she needed more training. There was plenty of time to do it. She wasn't with Mirax all the time, and Luke wasn't always at the Academy. And who knows? Maybe Mara was at the Academy "off-screen" sometimes in YJK too.

Corran/Mirax, which resulted in Corran nearly taking a step to the Dark Side;

But he didn't. As I've already pointed out, Obi-wan also nearly took a step on the Dark side when he fought Darth Maul in anger because of the death of Qui-gon, and Qui-gon wasn't even a relative.

Jaina and her many suitors, which has caused some troubles (Rebel Dream with her and Jag, Rebirth with her and Kyp); Anakin doing something seriously stupid in Conquest to save Tahiri.

And none of these were husbands/wives either. Problems can occur with any friendship or with any person a Jedi knows for that matter. Does that mean the Jedi shouldn't have contact with anyone or friendships with anyone?

Love is the most important emotion there is. And it was Luke's love for his father that led to Anakin's redemption, and it was Anakin's love for his son that led to the fall of the Emperor. So, while love can be a bit of a problem at times, it can also accomplish wonderful things.

I think Jedi children should be allowed to know their parents, and Jedi should be allowed to marry and have families.

 

That was because, again, Anakin was uncontrolled. Just like when he wanted to jump out to get Padme is the same way he charged Dooku when his Master, the more expereinced of the two had a plan and wanted to slow. Anakin nearly got the two of them killed if Yoda hadn't shown up. If Anakin had just listened things might have been fine. Thus another reason why his marriage was a secret cause he wasn't fit to enter a very emotional union such as marriage.

 

The closest real-world analogy to the Jedi is the Knights Templar, a monastic order of Crusader knights who made vows of chastity and poverty.

That might help you think about it

ChildOfWinds ignores one of the most pertinent points, one of the main reasons for enforced celibacy in the Catholic Church.

In the days of the Borgia popes, dynasties were formed which all but controlled the church.

We see that know in the NJO: Luke is head of the Jedi, his wife is another prominent Master, his sister is a prominent Galactic leader, Luke's niece and nephew are prominent, with Jacen likely being touted as future leader. And then there's Ben...

Does anyone find it a little bizarre that the descendants of one of the main causes of the Order's downfall now rules it?

 

If so, I definitely *don't* like it. That's like saying that the Jedi condoned irresponsibility: Have the kids, but no attachments to them or their mothers. Sounds like a *bad* idea to me!

For starters, I don't think it's a confirmed fact, just likely. You're entitled to that opinion, but I think you are misinterpreting it. It's not having 6 kids with 4 mothers who don't want them, it's not taking off when the kid is born, it's nothing like that.

Here is what I imagine the situation is:

Anyone who is part of that would have consented with the Jedi, wanted to do it or at least thinks it's a good idea, is payed generous amounts of money, and probably there are visits. Also, the chances of the kid being Force-sensitive is probably greater than 1/2 (probably about 3/4 if you do Mendel charts and it works that way), in which case the Jedi raise the kid anyway. It's a responsible way to allow the Jedi to "relax" and allow themselves to do some things that would get them in much more trouble otherwise.

And friendship can lead to anger and revenge too. Obi-wan was very close to the darkside, if he didn't cross over it, when he fought and killed Darth Maul after the death of his Master, Qui-gon. Just because the person isn't your parent, sibling, husband/wife, or child, doesn't mean you can't form *very* close attachments that might get you into trouble with the Darkside. And I would think that the very young Jedi would transfer their emotional feelings to their teachers in place of their parents. So what's the gain by denying relationships between mates, parents, and children if the same emotions are just going to be transferred to someone else?

Yes, but with Jedi discipline, the "parents" (Masters) will almost always die after their pupil(s) are into their 30s or 40s, old enough to have established other relationships of the same kind and accept it. I would be willing to bet that less than 5% of all Masters still training their Padawans die prematurely. There is still a risk, but it's better than the other way, IMO.

You seem to have decided there were training problems between Luke and Mara. I don't happen to agree. And we don't really know that the "promotion" was premature.

I think it's extremely possible and likely there were training problems, and there's no way in heck that having Luke train her was the best choice (I think Kam, Kyle, or Kenth were all better choices). Even if there weren't, the promotion should have gone to Streen (there's a good Master for Jacen), Corran, or Tionne, IMO.

Mara could have completely trained one or more Jedi during the years between VotF and VP that we just don't happen to know about. That would qualify her to be a Jedi Master.

Training Padawans is not the only criterion, and not only would that have been mentioned, there's also nobody in the Order who fits that bill.

And since Luke was able to learn most of his Jedi skills in just a few weeks, it's very possible that Mara was trained during SQ and VP. She *was* already a Jedi in VotF, she just felt she needed more training. There was plenty of time to do it. She wasn't with Mirax all the time, and Luke wasn't always at the Academy. And who knows? Maybe Mara was at the Academy "off-screen" sometimes in YJK too.

First off: Luke did not learn all of his Jedi skills until 4 or 5 years after Endor, or even later. What he learned on Dagobah was the combat and Force abilities; the things that qualify you to be a Jedi are knowledge of when to use those and what is right. That is why Form 0 is the most important form of saber combat; that's why Uilc Qel-Droma was considered the best Knight of his generation after his return, even without Force-sensitivity.

But he didn't. As I've already pointed out, Obi-wan also nearly took a step on the Dark side when he fought Darth Maul in anger because of the death of Qui-gon, and Qui-gon wasn't even a relative.

Like I said earlier, Obi-Wan was a special case; if Corran was unique, I wouldn't have a problem, but he's n

 

Quentin George:
Does anyone find it a little bizarre that the descendants of one of the main causes of the Order's downfall now rules it?

Well, first of all, I would say Palpatine was the person who was the most responsible for the downfall of the old Jedi Order.

Secondly, seeing as how Luke was almost the ONLY Jedi after Darth Vader and the Emperor destroyed the old Order, Luke didn't have much choice, did he? Either he started and led the New Jedi Order, or the Jedi disappeared from the galaxy.

And there simply aren't that many Force sensitives in the galaxy at the moment, both because of the purge, and probably because Jedi weren't allowed to marry and have children in the Old Order. That means that the most Force sensitive people in existence didn't pass on their midichlorians to their offspring. THere are only about 60 or 70 Jedi after the NJO.

And Luke has started a Jedi Council now that will insure that more people are involved in the decision-making. That will limit the chances of dynastic rule. Luke is the only Skywalker/Solo on that council.

 

I agree that the Council is a step in the right direction. However:

We have 2 of the most powerful Knights, the leader, a high-ranked Master, a talented semi-Knight, the heir, and a dead leader, all from the Skywalker-Solo clan. Jaina and Jacen are each looked up to as much as Luke, Anakin was as well before his death, and Luke and Leia are Luke and Leia. Also, you have the second most talented Master coming in if Jaina and Kyp marry, and Ben is likely to be the leader of his generation. It's too many important Jedi too fast from one family. Dynasties =

 

Pellaeon-Firke:
Anyone who is part of that would have consented with the Jedi, wanted to do it or at least thinks it's a good idea, is payed generous amounts of money, and probably there are visits.

But have we seen or heard about this in any of the films or books? I certainly never have. And I still think this is pretty disgusting behavior.

Also, the chances of the kid being Force-sensitive is probably greater than 1/2 (probably about 1/4 if you do Mendel charts and it works that way),

I think the possibilities are greater than that, or Han and Leia's children and Mirax and Corran Horn's wouldn't all be Force sensitive, especially since neither Han nor Mirax is Force Sensitive. I think it works like dominant recessive genes, such as with eye color and hair color, with Force sensitivity being the dominant trait.

Yes, but with Jedi discipline, the "parents" (Masters) will almost always die after their pupil(s) are into their 30s or 40s, old enough to have established other relationships of the same kind and accept it.

There is *no* guarantee of this, especially in wartime or when Jedi are sent to "hotspots" of the Galaxy, as they usually are. Two Jedi could even be the same age and best friends, and one can be killed on a mission.

I think it's extremely possible and likely there were training problems,

What kind of training problems? Mara seems to be a fully trained Jedi to me. Just because you don't like her or her personality, doesn't mean she isn't a good Jedi.

Training Padawans is not the only criterion, and not only would that have been mentioned, there's also nobody in the Order who fits that bill.

But training Padawans is ONE of the criteria. How do we know there is no one in the order that can "fit that bill"? We don't even know all of the names of all of the 100 Jedi in existence at the beginning of the NJO.

Like I said earlier, Obi-Wan was a special case; if Corran was unique, I wouldn't have a problem, but he's not.

I don't understand your point here.

No, but if you have a situation with 3 or more people who all want to be romantically involved with someone, it causes big problems.

And that's true whether or not you're a Jedi.

Actually, it was hatred and greed that led to the Empire's death; hatred of Palpatine by Han for trying to steal Anakin, and greed by Carnor Jax in trying to take power by sabotaging clones.

What???? What does that have to do with Anakin throwing the Emperor into the reactor in ROTJ?

And it took Luke's hatred for Vader (caused by his love for Leia) to make Vader realize his love.

Um, no... Yes, Luke temporarily attacked Vader in fear for the sister he loved when Vader threatened to turn her to the Dark side. But when he realized what he was doing, he stopped himself.

It was Luke's love for his father that caused him to give himself up to the Imperials in order to try to persuade his father to return to the Light; in order to save his father. And Luke *did* finally seduce Anakin back to the Light. When Vader saw the Emperor killing the son who loved him (and whom he loved in return and had loved, I think since he met him in TESB) , Anakin decided to turn against his Master and save his son's life. So love caused the Emperor's defeat in RotJ. The love of LUke for his father; and the love of Anakin for his son.

And Wedge Antilles, the man who orchestrated the first major defeat of the YV, hated them and wanted to cause them pain.

And what does this have to do with the Jedi?

It's too many important Jedi too fast from one family.

Well, since I like the Skywalkers and the Solos, that doesn't bother me at all.

 

Concerning the Skywalker Dynasty:

Doesn't the original Star Wars novelization include the tagline "The Adventures of Luke Skywalker" or something to that effect. I mean, the whole SW saga as told in film tells the story of the Skywalkers. I think that it is natural that the EU would maintain that kind of focus as well.


Concerning Jedi of the old order producing offspring:

I think I've heard somewhere that Ki-Adi Mundi might have sired a child, but (if I'm remembering correctly) it was because the birthrate of his people was exceptionally low. (Or something to that effect.)


Concerning the Old Jedi Order's stance on "attachments":

I was seriously disturbed when I read (in "Shadow Hunter") that the Jedi severed all ties between the children that they "adopted" from their biological parents. "Survivor's Quest" and "Tattooine Ghost" also touch upon this. I don't think that it is "healthy" to seperate a child from his or her parents so completely, even if the Old Jedi Order's intentions were "good."

Also, I wonder if Anakin would have confessed to some of his "emotional indulgences" (read: murdering the Tusken Raiders, and marrying Padme) to Obi-Wan that his fall to the Darkside might have been prevented. But maybe not, difficult to see the future is.

In ROTJ luke's love for his father frees Anakin from the chains of the Darkside, who in turn destroys the Emperor (for the 1st time ) because of his love for his son. Lets not forget that Mara and Jacen's love for Luke help to allow the Force to heal him at the end of "The Unifying Force."



Concerning Luke and Mara's "private" Force training sessions:

I am a romantic, and I think that the two of them have probably been able to explore themselves and the Force in more intimate ways then most. Love, tantric sex, and the Force. It's a good thing.


Finally, concerning my post aimed at Neostar9:

I responded to your post too soon after reading it. I should have taken some time and thought about the content of your statements, and the tone of my response a little more. I'm sorry if it came off as being to harsh. You were merely stating your opinion, and of course, that is what these boards are all about.

 

Personally I ignore the EU when it comes to the prequel Jedi Order. Lucas is the creator of Star Wars, it is his vision on how the Old Jedi Order was that is important. That is greatly shown in the movies vs. the prequel EU that paints a different picture. I will take what Lucas shows over everything else. The EU in this situation goes against the movies and as such the movies win.

 

But have we seen or heard about this in any of the films or books? I certainly never have. And I still think this is pretty disgusting behavior.

Like I said, it's supposition, but I think it's an interesting concept. If you don't like it, that's fine with me.

I think the possibilities are greater than that, or Han and Leia's children and Mirax and Corran Horn's wouldn't all be Force sensitive, especially since neither Han nor Mirax is Force Sensitive. I think it works like dominant recessive genes, such as with eye color and hair color, with Force sensitivity being the dominant trait.

My above post was edited, and you're right about it being dominant.

There is *no* guarantee of this, especially in wartime or when Jedi are sent to "hotspots" of the Galaxy, as they usually are. Two Jedi could even be the same age and best friends, and one can be killed on a mission.

In the PT Jedi era, there hasn't been a war involving Jedi for 1000 years, and their main assailants are humans who fear the Jedi and what they can do. It stands to reason that less Jedi die young before Palpatine starts setting his sights on them than in any other period in history. It's much less likely to die young in the OJO than in the OOJO or NJO.

What kind of training problems? Mara seems to be a fully trained Jedi to me. Just because you don't like her or her personality, doesn't mean she isn't a good Jedi.

She has some elitism issues that Luke should have addressed, there's the problem of nepotism, which will be brought up by the galaxy regardless of truth, and there's the possibility, brought up by others, that he spent too much time doing inappropriate things during training. *points at thread title*

But training Padawans is ONE of the criteria. How do we know there is no one in the order that can "fit that bill"? We don't even know all of the names of all of the 100 Jedi in existence at the beginning of the NJO.

We know the names of most of them, and nearly all the new Knights, because at the beginning of the NJO there was a greater ratio of Padawans to Masters/Knights than usual. None of the new Knights that we know of act like they'd been trained by Mara. And don't you think that if she had trained a Padawan, someone would have brought it up, in the course of the NJO? And wasn't she supposed to be training for most of that time anyway?

I don't understand your point here.

My point was that friendship and marriage are different; Obi-Wan's situation was nearly unique in the Order at that time, so it doesn't reflect bad on the order, and it wasn't a common problem. Corran's problem was more common though, which points to something wrong with structures in the NJO.

What???? What does that have to do with Anakin throwing the Emperor into the reactor in ROTJ?

My point is that not only was the Emperor killed (finally) by people using more evil emotions (except for E. Brand), but that hate and love, opposite ends of the spectrum, have each done good. You said "Love is the most important emotion there is," but my point was that love has caused plenty of trouble in the SWU, and hate has done plenty of good.

Um, no... Yes, Luke temporarily attacked Vader in fear for the sister he loved when Vader threatened to turn her to the Dark side. But when he realized what he was doing, he stopped himself.

Do you think that if Luke hadn't gone into his Form V frenzy, but had thrown his lightsaber away before the fighting, Vader would have felt sorry for him, loved him, and killed Palpatine? I don't.

It was Luke's love for his father that caused him to give himself up to the Imperials in order to try to persuade his father to return to the Light; in order to save his father. And Luke *did* finally seduce Anakin back to the Light. When Vader saw the Emperor killing the son who loved him (and whom he loved in return and had loved, I think since he met him in TESB) , Anakin decided to turn against his Master and save his son's life. So love

 

What kind of training problems? Mara seems to be a fully trained Jedi to me. Just because you don't like her or her personality, doesn't mean she isn't a good Jedi.

Oh please!!! Look at the novels themselves. Clearly she is not fit to be a Jedi. Luke rushed off, all emotional to face Vader in ESB. What happen Han was still captured, he needed to be saved, lost his hand and almost die. Mara has no control over her emotions. All feelings of her aside you CAN NOT IGNORE THIS SIMPLE FACT!! How many times have we read about her look at someone coldly, cutting her eyes, talking about people behind their back, letting her emotions drive her to the point of putting the lives of others at risk, letting her thoughts roam when she should be focused on a battle, etc. She is human yes but she is also suppose to be a Jedi and as such should be held to a greater standard. Believe what you want in that Jedi should live normal lives and be allowed to make mistakes but they can't. They have to much of a responsiblity and as such should not nor do have the luxary of having normal lives. They can't make normal mistakes.

Mara is not fully trained as a Jedi, unfit to be a master, nor does she have the characteristics of being a Jedi. She is cold(after 20 years of having friends, grow the hell up woman, you are almost 50 and stop acting like a baby), rude, crude, and violent.

I tried being cival before but really. The fact that she is married to Luke makes it look like she did sleep her way to the top. That thought has always been there and most likely will always be there. True I don't like Mara and maybe see more negative but really don't ignore her bad just because you are a fan of hers.

Its situtions like this that make me really, really HATE the EU.

 

Oh please!!! Look at the novels themselves. Clearly she is not fit to be a Jedi. Luke rushed off, all emotional to face Vader in ESB. What happen Han was still captured, he needed to be saved, lost his hand and almost die. Mara has no control over her emotions. All feelings of her aside you CAN NOT IGNORE THIS SIMPLE FACT!! How many times have we read about her look at someone coldly, cutting her eyes, talking about people behind their back, letting her emotions drive her to the point of putting the lives of others at risk, letting her thoughts roam when she should be focused on a battle, etc. She is human yes but she is also suppose to be a Jedi and as such should be held to a greater standard. Believe what you want in that Jedi should live normal lives and be allowed to make mistakes but they can't. They have to much of a responsiblity and as such should not nor do have the luxary of having normal lives. They can't make normal mistakes.

Mara is not fully trained as a Jedi, unfit to be a master, nor does she have the characteristics of being a Jedi. She is cold(after 20 years of having friends, grow the hell up woman, you are almost 50 and stop acting like a baby), rude, crude, and violent.

I tried being cival before but really. The fact that she is married to Luke makes it look like she did sleep her way to the top. That thought has always been there and most likely will always be there. True I don't like Mara and maybe see more negative but really don't ignore her bad just because you are a fan of hers.

Its situtions like this that make me really, really HATE the EU.

Neo how often have Mara's uncontrolled emotions as you put it gotten her into trouble where she needed to be rescued?

Next, we know Mara was considered a Knight by the end of VOTF and then six years passed by and she was a Knight. Then she became a Master. I do not see how this shows her being elevated too fast. She had a personal instructor who knew more than any other about the force and how to instruct others. These two worked well together as is shown in numerous novels. Luke himself with no master to instruct him went from Knight to Master in six years. So it is feasable that Mara could with someone like Luke instructing her also attain the level of Master.

OWLC

OWLC

 

And here we go again.

Well, it was fun while it lasted, anyway.

Thanks for an interesting and unique topic, HSOK3.

 

Thanks Lank_Pavail!

I've said it once and I'll say it again. Please, lets not turn this thread into a Mara bashing sanctuary. If someone needs to vent about their frustrations about the direction of the EU, and especially about their dislikes about any particular characters, feel free to create your own topic.

This thread has been created for other purposes.

Thank you.

 

Pellaeon Firke:
and there's the possibility, brought up by others, that he spent too much time doing inappropriate things during training.

Hey! A married couple is allowed to have a physical relationship with one another. Now, if they would have been having a physical relationship with someone else, THAT would have been inappropriate.

We know the names of most of them, None of the new Knights that we know of act like they'd been trained by Mara. And don't you think that if she had trained a Padawan, someone would have brought it up, in the course of the NJO? And wasn't she supposed to be training for most of that time anyway?

None of this precludes that she couldn't have trained a Padawan to knighthood. It is still a possibility. Just because we haven't heard about it *yet* or may never hear about it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Corran's problem was more common though, which points to something wrong with structures in the NJO.

I don't think Corran's problem was more common and I don't think it points to something wrong with the NJO. It's a new age with new problems and new solutions and traditions are needed for this new era. The Old Order wasn't terrible, but it had flaws which I think needed to be changed, among them the arrogant, elitest attitude which kept them from understanding the people they were meant to serve; training children from infancy and not allowing them to have a relationship with their families; and not allowing much emotion and marriage among the Jedi.

Do you think that if Luke hadn't gone into his Form V frenzy, but had thrown his lightsaber away before the fighting, Vader would have felt sorry for him, loved him, and killed Palpatine? I don't.

Yes, I do. I think Vader already had feelings for Luke in TESB. I think he loved him already. Vader even seemed "Tempted" to join Luke before Vader took Luke to the Emperor, when he said, "It's too late for me, my son." It already sounded like he wished it could be different and that he could be a Lightsider.

Whether Luke had gone into a frenzy or not, when Palpatine tried to kill Luke, I think Vader would have saved him because he loved his son.

 

Do you have a problem with a Jedi doing that? Do you think that the Jedi have (or should have) any restrictions on this sort of thing, considering what we know of the Old Jedi Order and their stance on strictly prohibiting overindulgence in emotional reactions?

You are refering to the Prequel era Order, which fits that while the Order at the time of TotJ seems to have no problems with such things.

As for whether I have a problem with the Jedi using the Force in what could be seen as a trivial manner, I'd have to say that I don't. People in the real world will use any means to increase their partner's and their own sexual pleasure. It is possible that those very few individuals with the right psychic abilities could choose to use their abilities during intercourse to enhance their partners sexual pleasure. In light of all this, I don't see why the Jedi would not do the same thing.

About the only restriction I think Jedi should have on using the Force for purposes of intercourse would be to use the Force to manipulate a potential sexual partner into having sex with them. Both parties should enter into the act of intercourse of their own free will rather than be manipulated into believing that they willingly agreed to have intercourse with the Jedi, or any other Force-user for that matter.

 

How is this thread topic Literature related? There's an increasing amount of threads that have no relevance.

Or perhaps it's just Desann is ridiculously indomitable on highest level, and I'd like to last a wee bit more than a few secs. And can someone tell the fool to stop throwing me up onto the chamber ceiling just because I get him angry with a few hits? Sheesh . . .

 

Excellence...

I think that the topic of this thread relates to the Lit forum because we are discussing characters that appear in various books, and how their actions in said books (as we interpret them) affect the Star Wars Expanded Universe.

Care to join in the conversation? Or are the topics of Force exploration during sex, emotional "attachments" by the Jedi, and the healing power of love, not relevant enough for you?

 

Or perhaps it's just Desann is ridiculously indomitable on highest level, and I'd like to last a wee bit more than a few secs. And can someone tell the fool to stop throwing me up onto the chamber ceiling just because I get him angry with a few hits? Sheesh . . .

Force speed should help you mop him up in no time.

But, if you want to play fair, you're in a whole new ball game.

 

The only time I've ever defeated Desann without cheating was by accident. I inadvertently toppled a pillar on top of him - couldn't work out what I'd done at first - amusing

 

I have a 2 friends who have beaten him without cheats several times. One has beaten him on all dificulties and the other on all but the hardest. Of course they also put 20 Reborns in a room for a huge duel. I think one actually beat them all. Once. I personally have never beaten him. But I don't own Outcast.

 

In academy, it's fun when you're dark on Korriban to spawn 20 Tavions and 20 Lukes/Kyles and have a 20 v 20 v 1 melee.

 

P-F: I don't think control is the right word. "More training" fits better. Give him until Episode III. Dooku = pwnz0red.

A married couple is allowed to have a physical relationship with one another. It's hardly illegal, unless somebody changed the rules behind my back. Which tends to happen quite often.

As far as Mara being a Master, she did train Jaina and save Kyle from the dark side. I would've promoted her to Knight just for the second one. Dromund Kaas > Resident Evil.

But Luke attained Master status with nobody to train him for the better part of his life. Anyone who can do this is perfectly qualified to train anyone.

But whether any given person thinks Mara should be a Master or not, she is. She's obviously good enough at her job to get there. Besides, if Luke had become the petty being some accuse Mara of turning him into and Mara actually was a bitch, the NJO would have played out something like this:

---

THE ABBREVIATED-AS-POSSIBLE NJO WHERE MARA IS A BITCH

(Ext. view, Grand Convocation Chamber)

Luke: Mr. Fey'lya, can I please be allowed to guide my own organization without you butting in every ten seconds?

Fey'lya: I don't know, Luke. I think you should ask Mr. Hat.

Luke: I DON'T WANNA ASK MR. HAT! I'M ASKING YOU!

Fey'lya: Oh, I think you should ask Mr. Hat.

Luke: *sigh* Mr. Hat, can I please just run my own order?

Mr. Hat: Well, Luke...NO! YOU HEAR ME? YOU GO TO HELL! YOU GO TO HELL AND YOU DIE!

Luke: ...OK! That's IT!!!! *ignites lightsaber and kills Mr. Hat*

Mara: Yay for Lukie! You?re so hot!

Luke: I know. ^_^

Fey'lya: *screaming in pain, and then loses too much blood and falls over dead*

Jacen: Oh my God! They killed Fey'lya!

Anakin: ...

Jacen: Aren't you gonna say "you bastards?"

Anakin: Hell no, I'm glad that ******'s dead.

[hr]

(Ext. view, Belkadan)

Crewmen: Hey, look, an alien!

Yomin: Do-ro'ik vong pratte!

Crewmen: *die horribly*

Luke: What the hell happened here?

Mara: I DON'T CARE! I WANNA GO HOME AND WATCH THE OC!

Luke: Hey, look, an alien!

Mara: *kills it* Pwnx0red.

Luke: God, you're so damn hot when you're killing stuff...

Mara: Mmm, you're so hot when you're flustered...

*X-rated things happen on the floor of the research station*

Mara: Uh, that dead warrior body is starting to stink.

Luke: Yeah, let's get the hell out of here.

Later, on Sernpidal...

Mayor: I swear to God, I'm not Boba Fett. *dies*

Han: OH MY GOD! THEY KILLED CHEWIE! AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO RESURRECT HIM!

Anakin: *shakes fist at editors* YOU BASTARDS!

Jacen: I will totally pwnx0r you, you alien dudes! *He does.*

Mara: Oh, Luke, you're so hot when you're directing a mission.

Luke: I know. ^_^

Fast forward a bit...

Jag: Hi. I?m Colonel Jagged Fel and I have a stupid name and no personality, but I?m handsome.

Jaina: *orgasm* OH GOD YES!!!

Politicians: ?

Jacen: Hey, they hate this pollen!

Corran: Good. Call a huge fleet. *They do.*

Fleet: *fails*

Pellaeon: Dammit!

Ithor: *dies*

Ithorians: Dammit!

Colin Quinn: *angrily points fingers at Corran*

Corran: Dammit!

Han: *gets drunk*

Vergere: *cries*

Mara: *is cured*

Luke: Mara, you look hot when you're cured of coomb spores. *wink*

Jacen: Oh, Jesus, not this again.

On Centerpoint...

Thrackan: Fire the damn thing!

Jacen: No.

Anakin: Uhhh...

Thrackan: Yes. *fires it*

On Duro...

Jacen: Jeez louise, this place smells.

Jaina: Oh my God! I have no hair!

Jacen: Nya nya nya nya nya nya, hahahahahaha.

Nom: Hi.

Leia: I hate you and I will kill you.

Nom: *escapes*

Leia: Dammit!

Yuuzhan Vong: *attack*

New Republic: Ouch.

Jacen: Mommy!

Leia: Sonny!

Tsavong Lah: And now I will cripple your mommy! Bwahaha!

Jacen: *pwnx0rs Tsavong Lah*

Tsavong Lah: Dammit!

Jacen & Leia: *escape*

Luke: What have I been doing this entire time?

Mara: Alone time. ^_^

Luke: Oh. Right.

Gnosos: JESUS IS LAWWWWWD!

Jacen: Whatever. Just give me your car keys.

Gnosos: