Discussion Luke Skywalker as the Master Jedi

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Jedirush2112, May 6, 2013.

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How strong do you feel Luke be as a Jedi Master after 30 years of studying the force?

Poll closed May 20, 2013.
As Wise and Experienced as Yoda 11 vote(s) 14.5%
As Strong as Mace Windu 4 vote(s) 5.3%
As Experienced as Obi-Wan 12 vote(s) 15.8%
The Same as he was at the end of ROTJ 1 vote(s) 1.3%
He should be completely different then all the above. Since he has been alone with the Force. 48 vote(s) 63.2%
  1. Jedirush2112 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2013
    star 3
    Sounds like a good comedy:

    "Ghost Dad"
  2. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    LOL, your point being that Luke was as powerful as Palp at that time, and could have won had he not thrown away his lightsaber, and that Luke was as powerful as Yoda? You do know that you have to want to believe that to believe it, l right?

    Gee, if Luke was so powerful, why was he not able to fight Palp WITHOUT his lightsaber like Yoda did? Why did he have to beg for Vader to help him and save his life ("Father, pleeeaaaase!!!")?

    Luke- Just got through training, just BECAME a Jedi moments earlier (""After you face Vader again, only then, a Jedi will you be."), a rookie Jedi basically.

    Yoda- Grand Master, trained Jedi for 800 years.

    Palp- Master of the dark side for generations, ruler of the galaxy.

    Yet, some how Luke is more powerful as a Jedi then them during ROTJ? In your mind maybe, not in the story.
    Last edited by Lee_, May 11, 2013
  3. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Because he would rather die than fight, shown so that anyone could grasp it by how he threw his lightsaber away. Defending would be fighting and Luke rejected that at this point of time.

    It is not my fault the OT is constantly retconned because of the PT or the EU. In my opinion the original material is more important than these lesser works.

    If you look at the OT alone, nothing is wrong with Lukes training time.
  4. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 8
    His willingness to "rather die" is sorta suspect in light of his cries of "Father, please!!!".
    Last edited by A Chorus of Disapproval, May 11, 2013
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  5. Darth Tunes SfC Part III Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10
    Given that Yoda's species can live for 900+ years, it's impossible for Luke to be has experience as him.
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  6. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Excruciating pain does tend to cause begging, yes.
  7. Trebor Sabreon Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2010
    star 4
    I hear what you're saying, but I think that Luke went in knowing that, as far as he was concerned, one of two things would occur: Luke would either somehow reach his father, or die trying, and I think he was as at peace with this as anybody could realistically be expected to be.

    I guess what I'm saying is that, to me, the idea that Luke made one last ditch (and successful) effort to reach Anakin in the midst of Palpatine's torture, doesn't show a lack of willingness to die for the cause.
    Pro Scoundrel and Darth_Pevra like this.
  8. Darth Tunes SfC Part III Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10
    ...doesn't show a lack of willingness to die for the cause.


    It makes you wonder if he'll end up doing so in Episode VII.
  9. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    [IMG]
    Last edited by Lee_, May 11, 2013
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  10. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    You are creating your own story basically. Luke was a rookie Jedi, he didn't have what it took to fight Palp whether he had his lightsaber or not, that is true no matter which series you want to consider. Luke knew that. The martyr bit is your creation, not Lucas's.
    Sedrin Celis and Jedirush2112 like this.
  11. Jedirush2112 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2013
    star 3
    Luke was just a Novice Jedi when he confronted Vader along side Sidious. He totally underestimated the Sith Lord's Power. He probably hadn't even heard of Force Lightning until he was bathed in it. Fortunately, a Darth Vader (Anakin) did remember. And decided to become the Myrtle and take out Sidious along with him. Regardless, Luke was nowhere near the strength or wisdom of Yoda, Mace or Obi-wan for that matter. He was just strong and pretty damn lucky his father had a moment of clarity!

    [face_peace]
    Last edited by Jedirush2112, May 11, 2013
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  12. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    star 8
    We are all in agreement: Luke was willing to die until he didn't want to die.
    Pro Scoundrel and Lee_ like this.
  13. Jedirush2112 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2013
    star 3
    [face_dunno]
  14. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 8
  15. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Yet Yoda himself said that he had learned what he needed.

    You seem to think Obi-Wan and Yoda would send a pupil to almost certain death. I disagree about that.

    The martyr bit is definitely not my creation. Luke throwing his lightsaber away was in the movie. Throwing your weapon away is generally a symbolic gesture about not wanting to fight. He didn't necessarily want to die, but he'd rather die than fight.

    My interpretation is just out of favor because it doesn't fit well with the EU and the PT. But I think EU and PT should adhere to the OT, not the other way round.

    TreborSaberon has also explained well what was going on inside of Luke in the throne room.
  16. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Your interpretation is out of favor because it is a logical fail.
  17. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
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    star 8
    Keep this civil.
    Last edited by A Chorus of Disapproval, May 11, 2013
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  18. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    And how would you interpret Luke throwing down his lightsaber? He obviously didn't intend to keep using it to fight.
    Darth_Pevra likes this.
  19. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Pevra - I think the problem people are having is not what Luke throwing away his saber meant, but your original idea that he was as/more powerful than Palpatine in ROTJ.

    We can talk about his potential and (shudder) his midichorian levels, but in terms of ability, in ROTJ, I think Vader was the best that Luke could do.

    Meaning he would not have been able to beat Obi-Wan, Yoda, Anakin, Mace, or Sidious.

    30 years later though....who knows how powerful he becomes?

    It's like Michael Kidd-Gilchrist admitting that a 50-year-old Michael Jordan beat him in one on one. ;)
    Circular_Logic likes this.
  20. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    How do you then explain that Yoda and Obi-Wan don't team up one year after RotS, first take out Vader and then go after the Emperor?

    It is possible to pull an explanation out of your own rear end for that one, but it will be a bad explanation. It is easier to assume that all three, Vader, Luke and the Emperor are about on par and Obi-Wan and Yoda are simply weaker. Then it makes perfect sense that they would wait for someone with a unique potential to come around.

    There's also the fact that I don't like to think Yoda would send Luke at Sidious if he didn't believe he had a good shot at winning. Otherwise Yoda would look like a giant douchebag, especially because he tells Luke that he has all he needs to win the battle.
    ChildOfWinds likes this.
  21. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    [IMG]
  22. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Yes, just ignore the points I am making and ridicule me. Nice style there. Are you feeling so threatened by what I am saying?
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  23. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Threatened? No, but your language is funny, and honestly, so are some of your ideas. You allude to others "pulling an explanation form their rear end," and then go on top do exactly that yourself.
  24. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Why? If you look at the OT on its own, nothing there implies that Yoda or Obi-Wan are more powerful than Luke. Yoda takes quite some time to raise the X-wing out of the swamp and we never see him swinging a lightsaber.

    Palpatine is killed by an injured Vader, meaning he can't be that much powerful either.

    Only when you take the EU and the PT into account do you arrive at the conclusion that Luke was still a trainee in the finale of the saga.

    But who am I arguing with? You will just continue treating me like an idiot.
  25. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Actually, that was Luke renouncing turning to the dark side, i.e. finishing off Vader (which he was on the verge of doing) and then joining Palp (which was what Palp's expectation was). In the novelization, it brings up Luke realizing that he has become just like his father in that moment, hateful and thirsty for a kill (the movie also shows him ABOUT to finish Vader off, then coming to his senses); Luke at that moment realizes that he doesn't hate his father or Palpatine, but hates the darkness within them; he is showing Palp that he failed to turn him to the dark side by throwing away his weapon and not killing Vader (again, this is explicitly described in the novel, and implicit in the movie).
    Last edited by Lee_, May 12, 2013
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