Discussion Luke Skywalker as the Master Jedi

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Jedirush2112, May 6, 2013.

?

How strong do you feel Luke be as a Jedi Master after 30 years of studying the force?

Poll closed May 20, 2013.
As Wise and Experienced as Yoda 11 vote(s) 14.5%
As Strong as Mace Windu 4 vote(s) 5.3%
As Experienced as Obi-Wan 12 vote(s) 15.8%
The Same as he was at the end of ROTJ 1 vote(s) 1.3%
He should be completely different then all the above. Since he has been alone with the Force. 48 vote(s) 63.2%
  1. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    I don't mean to offend you, but you honestly are not making sense to me. That's about the best I can say, otherwise we will only continue to disagree.
  2. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Yes, he was renouncing turning to the dark side. He knew that if he would continue fighting, he would as he felt he was teetering very close to the dark. Then he threw his lightsaber, his means of defending and attacking, away. Slaying Palpatine in anger would make him fall just like slaying his father in anger would. Luke instead chose to become a non-participant in the fight as fighting would mean risking his soul.
    You say yourself: He begins to hate the darkside in Palpatine and Vader, not Palpatine or Vader themselves.
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  3. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    See, again, you go making up the story (i.e. you own words "pulling things from your rear"), this is why the discussion fails. What I was referring to in the scene had nothing to do with killing Palp, that is never even brought up; Luke is fighting the urge to kill Vader, THAT is his internal struggle, then Palp walks up laughing, egging him on to kill ("take your father's place at my side"). The whole idea that Luke is rejecting is the killing of Vader, as he would then be concurrently joining Palp as his new apprentice, taking his father's place, and joining the dark side. You wouldn't get so far-fetched with your ideas if you pay attention to what is actually in the story, and stop making so much up. Read that scene again. Look at what is there, don't make wild stretches.
    Last edited by Lee_, May 12, 2013
    SeinEwigerSchatten likes this.
  4. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    You think the force makes any difference between homicide in anger or patricide in anger? This is you applying a double standard when it comes to using the force.
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  5. SeinEwigerSchatten Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2013
    star 1
    I can tell you what is the real message in ROTJ.

    Palpatine wanted Anakin and Luke fight each other and kill the other in hatred. Killing the own father/son will push everyone to the dark side. Anakin is so clouded and mindxxxxx that he tries to kill his own son in hatred and blind anger. Just to serve the dark side.

    Vader wants to please his master and he wants to help to pull Luke to the dark side.

    In the process he notices Lukes amazing skills. He begins to get feelings for luke not because he is his son, but because Luke is strong in the force. Vader loves the mighty and the powerfull. Vader hates the weak. He also hates his own weakness.

    Lukes intention was to survive and did the right for the galaxy.

    In the moment when Luke is helpless, Vader looks at him and at the emperor. He does that for 10 seconds and i think he thinks about the possibility to overthrow the emperor, so Luke can become the new ruler of the galaxy. If Anakin cant have the galaxy, so maybe his son can.

    Its pure egoism which makes Vader kill the emperor and betray his master. The fact that he becomes a forceghost does say nothing of his good or bad hearted behaviour. Anyone who gives up his physical existance wilingly and is strong with the force can become a forceghost. And anakin wilingly died while he tried to bring his son into power.

    Anyone who claims that Vader killed the emperor because of Love to his son is false informed. Vader never loved anyone, he just wanted to own people. He wanted to control them and enjoy their company.
  6. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    [IMG]
  7. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Lol, again you start. What we see on screen is also that Luke doesn't attempt to defend himself. Neither does he try to push Palpatine away from himself, nor did he levitate his lightsaber back to himself nor does he try to force choke Palpatine. Either he wasn't capable because of all the pain or he chose to not use the force in a state of desperation and fear.

    Maybe you should reevaluate your own logic in between your endless face palming.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, May 12, 2013
    SeinEwigerSchatten likes this.
  8. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 7
    Here is "Logic"... I am about to Force-Lightning this thread. Everybody play nicely. It's Mother's Day.
  9. EHT Manager: New Films

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    Yes, it is all of that. But the implication is also clearly there that Luke must realize that throwing away his only means of self-defense could cost him his life.

    And to reiterate what @A Chorus of Disapproval said: play nice. Some of your posts towards @Darth_Pevra have been pretty rude.
  10. SweetZombieJesus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 2
    I want him to be stronger in the force than anyone we've seen, even Yoda. And wise, and with compassion and love and attachment, in a good way. I want him to be the living bedrock upon which the New Republic will last a thousand generations.
  11. Immortiss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 4
    I don't believe Luke could have defeated Darth Sidious through acts of aggression. It didn't come down to the ability to use aggression, but an act of mercy and active resistance to evil. Through these acts he was able to defeat Palpatine by appealing to his Father's sense of right. Thus, redeeming the mistakes of Yoda, Obi-Wan and the members of the Old Jedi Council, whose acts of hubris and arrogance were in part responsible for the dark times. Anakin was redeemed by adhering to the righteousness of the Force, which called for the destruction of Darth Sidious/Palpatine. To conclude, Luke was not more powerful that Palpatine or Yoda in the physical realm, but quite possibly in the spiritual or moral realm (if such a thing can be quantified). This is just my interpretation. The truths we hold depend greatly on our own point of view.
  12. Rachel_In_Red Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2013
    star 2
    I think he should be at least as powerful as any of the Jedi from the PT/OT.
    SeinEwigerSchatten likes this.
  13. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Eh, literally speaking yes, but I think realistically, from the POV of the story at the time, no.

    It IS his only means of self defense, true. But on the other hand, I don't think it meant much in the situation; I don't think Palp even needed a lightsaber to zap Luke out of existence, and I think Luke knew he was no match, with or without it. He hadn't expected Vader to take him in front of the emperor when he turned himself in to Vader (remember, he thought he could bring out the good in him?).
  14. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Interesting point.
  15. SeinEwigerSchatten Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2013
    star 1
    This sounds logical. I also think that Luke did not wanted to fight, He just believed in the "Good" in his Father. Luke had a lot of Luck i must say though. Vader just killed the emperor, because he already had planned since a long time to get rid of that old slavemaster.
    Darth_Pevra likes this.
  16. Darth Chiznuk Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    Wow, I pretty much disagree with everything in this post. Not everyone who is strong in the Force and gives up their physical existence can become a Force ghost because it is a light side power (it is a state acquired through compassion not greed as Qui-Gon puts it in deleted dialogue from ROTS). It's pretty obvious after Luke throws his lightsaber away that he had no intention of ruling the galaxy so I don't see how it can be argued that that was Vader's motivation for killing the Emperor. Luke awakens the goodness in his father and Anakin sacrifices his own life because of love for his son.
  17. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 7
    Luke: "I'll not leave you here. I've got to save you".
    Vader Anakin: "You already have. You were right. You were right about me. Tell your sister you were right".


    *Wins Thread* :p
    Last edited by A Chorus of Disapproval, May 12, 2013
  18. SeinEwigerSchatten Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2013
    star 1
    Ah ok i see. Than that added "nooo!" scream in ROTJ is legit?



    It makes perfect sense now! Thank you Mr. Lucas! Thank you!

    :D
  19. Rachel_In_Red Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2013
    star 2
    I was thinking the exact same thing. Crazy! :)
  20. SweetZombieJesus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 2
    I've been thinking about it more, and throughout the saga we are inundated with evil. Overwhelming evil.

    As evil as Palpatine was, I want Luke to be that good. "Luke" means "bringer of light", I want Luke to bring blinding righteous light.
    Jedi Merkurian and JainaSoloYJK like this.
  21. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    As long as Luke can finally move his damn X-Wing after about 40 years, I think he'll do alright. That one musta stuck in his craw for a few decades.
  22. Jedirush2112 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2013
    star 3
    I guess no-one ever told George; "If it's not broken don't fix it!"

    :p
    Last edited by Jedirush2112, May 12, 2013
    Darth_Pevra likes this.
  23. startravellerearth Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2012
    star 1
    He should become a master Jedi. Have him train new students at a Jedi academy he has built.
    Jedirush2112 likes this.
  24. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Luke really should be a Jedi Master from frame 1, that's almost a given. If he's just like "Hey! Still a Jedi after all these decades and I'm the only one!" that would be odd. Yes, he would have to appoint himself a Jedi Master but I don't think they would really mention that awkward plot point.
    Jedirush2112 and Evil--Yoda like this.
  25. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    I always thought (before the PT) that Yoda and Palpatine had evolved beyond even using a saber at all. "Oh, you still need that tool?" ;)
    GGrievous likes this.