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Discussion Luke Skywalker as the Master Jedi

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Jedirush2112, May 6, 2013.

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How strong do you feel Luke be as a Jedi Master after 30 years of studying the force?

Poll closed May 20, 2013.
  1. As Wise and Experienced as Yoda

    14.5%
  2. As Strong as Mace Windu

    5.3%
  3. As Experienced as Obi-Wan

    15.8%
  4. The Same as he was at the end of ROTJ

    1.3%
  5. He should be completely different then all the above. Since he has been alone with the Force.

    63.2%
  1. Lee_

    Lee_ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    I don't mean to offend you, but you honestly are not making sense to me. That's about the best I can say, otherwise we will only continue to disagree.
     
  2. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Yes, he was renouncing turning to the dark side. He knew that if he would continue fighting, he would as he felt he was teetering very close to the dark. Then he threw his lightsaber, his means of defending and attacking, away. Slaying Palpatine in anger would make him fall just like slaying his father in anger would. Luke instead chose to become a non-participant in the fight as fighting would mean risking his soul.
    You say yourself: He begins to hate the darkside in Palpatine and Vader, not Palpatine or Vader themselves.
     
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  3. Lee_

    Lee_ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    See, again, you go making up the story (i.e. you own words "pulling things from your rear"), this is why the discussion fails. What I was referring to in the scene had nothing to do with killing Palp, that is never even brought up; Luke is fighting the urge to kill Vader, THAT is his internal struggle, then Palp walks up laughing, egging him on to kill ("take your father's place at my side"). The whole idea that Luke is rejecting is the killing of Vader, as he would then be concurrently joining Palp as his new apprentice, taking his father's place, and joining the dark side. You wouldn't get so far-fetched with your ideas if you pay attention to what is actually in the story, and stop making so much up. Read that scene again. Look at what is there, don't make wild stretches.
     
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  4. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    You think the force makes any difference between homicide in anger or patricide in anger? This is you applying a double standard when it comes to using the force.
     
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  5. SeinEwigerSchatten

    SeinEwigerSchatten Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    May 10, 2013
    I can tell you what is the real message in ROTJ.

    Palpatine wanted Anakin and Luke fight each other and kill the other in hatred. Killing the own father/son will push everyone to the dark side. Anakin is so clouded and mindxxxxx that he tries to kill his own son in hatred and blind anger. Just to serve the dark side.

    Vader wants to please his master and he wants to help to pull Luke to the dark side.

    In the process he notices Lukes amazing skills. He begins to get feelings for luke not because he is his son, but because Luke is strong in the force. Vader loves the mighty and the powerfull. Vader hates the weak. He also hates his own weakness.

    Lukes intention was to survive and did the right for the galaxy.

    In the moment when Luke is helpless, Vader looks at him and at the emperor. He does that for 10 seconds and i think he thinks about the possibility to overthrow the emperor, so Luke can become the new ruler of the galaxy. If Anakin cant have the galaxy, so maybe his son can.

    Its pure egoism which makes Vader kill the emperor and betray his master. The fact that he becomes a forceghost does say nothing of his good or bad hearted behaviour. Anyone who gives up his physical existance wilingly and is strong with the force can become a forceghost. And anakin wilingly died while he tried to bring his son into power.

    Anyone who claims that Vader killed the emperor because of Love to his son is false informed. Vader never loved anyone, he just wanted to own people. He wanted to control them and enjoy their company.
     
  6. Lee_

    Lee_ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Lol, again you start. What we see on screen is also that Luke doesn't attempt to defend himself. Neither does he try to push Palpatine away from himself, nor did he levitate his lightsaber back to himself nor does he try to force choke Palpatine. Either he wasn't capable because of all the pain or he chose to not use the force in a state of desperation and fear.

    Maybe you should reevaluate your own logic in between your endless face palming.
     
    SeinEwigerSchatten likes this.
  8. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Vampire Killer star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Here is "Logic"... I am about to Force-Lightning this thread. Everybody play nicely. It's Mother's Day.
     
  9. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Yes, it is all of that. But the implication is also clearly there that Luke must realize that throwing away his only means of self-defense could cost him his life.

    And to reiterate what A Chorus of Disapproval said: play nice. Some of your posts towards Darth_Pevra have been pretty rude.
     
  10. SweetZombieJesus

    SweetZombieJesus Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2013
    I want him to be stronger in the force than anyone we've seen, even Yoda. And wise, and with compassion and love and attachment, in a good way. I want him to be the living bedrock upon which the New Republic will last a thousand generations.
     
  11. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2013
    I don't believe Luke could have defeated Darth Sidious through acts of aggression. It didn't come down to the ability to use aggression, but an act of mercy and active resistance to evil. Through these acts he was able to defeat Palpatine by appealing to his Father's sense of right. Thus, redeeming the mistakes of Yoda, Obi-Wan and the members of the Old Jedi Council, whose acts of hubris and arrogance were in part responsible for the dark times. Anakin was redeemed by adhering to the righteousness of the Force, which called for the destruction of Darth Sidious/Palpatine. To conclude, Luke was not more powerful that Palpatine or Yoda in the physical realm, but quite possibly in the spiritual or moral realm (if such a thing can be quantified). This is just my interpretation. The truths we hold depend greatly on our own point of view.
     
  12. Rachel_In_Red

    Rachel_In_Red Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 12, 2013
    I think he should be at least as powerful as any of the Jedi from the PT/OT.
     
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  13. Lee_

    Lee_ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Eh, literally speaking yes, but I think realistically, from the POV of the story at the time, no.

    It IS his only means of self defense, true. But on the other hand, I don't think it meant much in the situation; I don't think Palp even needed a lightsaber to zap Luke out of existence, and I think Luke knew he was no match, with or without it. He hadn't expected Vader to take him in front of the emperor when he turned himself in to Vader (remember, he thought he could bring out the good in him?).
     
  14. Lee_

    Lee_ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Interesting point.
     
  15. SeinEwigerSchatten

    SeinEwigerSchatten Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    May 10, 2013
    This sounds logical. I also think that Luke did not wanted to fight, He just believed in the "Good" in his Father. Luke had a lot of Luck i must say though. Vader just killed the emperor, because he already had planned since a long time to get rid of that old slavemaster.
     
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  16. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Wow, I pretty much disagree with everything in this post. Not everyone who is strong in the Force and gives up their physical existence can become a Force ghost because it is a light side power (it is a state acquired through compassion not greed as Qui-Gon puts it in deleted dialogue from ROTS). It's pretty obvious after Luke throws his lightsaber away that he had no intention of ruling the galaxy so I don't see how it can be argued that that was Vader's motivation for killing the Emperor. Luke awakens the goodness in his father and Anakin sacrifices his own life because of love for his son.
     
  17. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Vampire Killer star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Luke: "I'll not leave you here. I've got to save you".
    Vader Anakin: "You already have. You were right. You were right about me. Tell your sister you were right".


    *Wins Thread* :p
     
  18. SeinEwigerSchatten

    SeinEwigerSchatten Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    May 10, 2013
    Ah ok i see. Than that added "nooo!" scream in ROTJ is legit?



    It makes perfect sense now! Thank you Mr. Lucas! Thank you!

    :D
     
  19. Rachel_In_Red

    Rachel_In_Red Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 12, 2013
    I was thinking the exact same thing. Crazy! :)
     
  20. SweetZombieJesus

    SweetZombieJesus Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2013
    I've been thinking about it more, and throughout the saga we are inundated with evil. Overwhelming evil.

    As evil as Palpatine was, I want Luke to be that good. "Luke" means "bringer of light", I want Luke to bring blinding righteous light.
     
  21. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    As long as Luke can finally move his damn X-Wing after about 40 years, I think he'll do alright. That one musta stuck in his craw for a few decades.
     
  22. Jedirush2112

    Jedirush2112 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2013
    I guess no-one ever told George; "If it's not broken don't fix it!"

    :p
     
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  23. startravellerearth

    startravellerearth Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2012
    He should become a master Jedi. Have him train new students at a Jedi academy he has built.
     
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  24. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Luke really should be a Jedi Master from frame 1, that's almost a given. If he's just like "Hey! Still a Jedi after all these decades and I'm the only one!" that would be odd. Yes, he would have to appoint himself a Jedi Master but I don't think they would really mention that awkward plot point.
     
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  25. Garth Maul

    Garth Maul Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 18, 2002
    I always thought (before the PT) that Yoda and Palpatine had evolved beyond even using a saber at all. "Oh, you still need that tool?" ;)
     
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