Luke Skywalker vs Lumiya

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Mateo, Aug 18, 2001.

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  1. Wedge 88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 1999
    star 6
    Lumiya isn't the only Dark Jedi left.

    Arden Len is still around, I think. And Kir Kanos... he is Force sensitive, and is certantly not a "Light" Jedi. And any of the current Jedi could always go Dark...
  2. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Yes, arden is still around, as might be jeng droga(questionable though).
  3. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    MT...
    "Ghengis I have many of the Lumiya issues and all signs point to her being Vader's lapdog,not Palpatine's even though she was a hand.That was merely a ruse.Vader was her primary instructor.Give up on the whole "Lumiya being Palpatine's Sith apprentice"thing ."

    Impossiblt to do. Shira and Palaptine are intimately tied together. Shira was raised by the Emperor. He was her "biological" (yes, probably a foster) father. The one she grew up with, was raised by and generally learned her value system from. Later on in life, she was given a second father figure - Darth Vader - effectively a "foster" father. She did indeed have strong connections to Vader, but we cannot forget it was Palpatine who raised her and whom she returned to as his Emperor's Hand. Her power and status as a Sith - a TRUE Sith is unquestioned. She had the two best Sith examples in the whole history of the galaxy to guide her, something which no one else can lay claim to.

    As for the Lumiya/Luke thing, the fact is, their record is 1-1. Lumiya kicked Luke's butt on their first meeting after he was completely overwhelmed by her. He beat her the second time.

    As for poor Jeng Droga. One would think that with all of the money the Emperor had available to spend on creating superweapons, the Emperor could've sent a cred or two to Droga's pocket. At least enough to let him by a decent cape and some new boots.
  4. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    That's been retconned Genghis. Probably so that Mara could have the link with Palpatine that is fatherly.

    In truth I imagine here's how it went...

    Palpatine had his instructors and one of his mistresses train Luminya and Mara in the ways of "worshipping the Emperor like a god" and in general treating them with routine visits where he'd make sure they realized he was everything that the galaxy walked around and they owed everything they were to him.

    BIGGGGGGG mistake in Luminya.

    When Vader rescued Shira Brie he put her on the same alchemical substance it appears he was on (apparently Palpatine's doling out of the stuff was subverted by Vader learning to replicate the recipe...hence he could now safely rebel).

    Shira Brie knew at that point that palpatine had used her and always used her and that every bit as much as Luke Skywalker he was responsible for the present state of living death she was in.

    Vader no doubt encouraged these rolls and made likely offers that he when he was a Sith Lord could "heal" her as she helped him.

    When Palpatine tried to make Luke his Sith Apprentice...in effect replace the one person she had left who understood her staet with someone whom had PUT her there. No more thought to his "daughter" than a hydrospanner he'd discarded she snapped.

    Palpatine so weak as a clone thus never once suspected his mindless little clone was now going to kill him.

    She might not have been until he corrupted Luke Skywalker was made his apprentice in Dark Emprie.

    CAN YOU *IMAGINE* Luminya seeing Luke as Palpatine's new heir?

    Of course she'd kill him.

    Hence the reversal of fortune
  5. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Charlemagne...
    "When Vader rescued Shira Brie he put her on the same alchemical substance it appears he was on (apparently Palpatine's doling out of the stuff was subverted by Vader learning to replicate the recipe...hence he could now safely rebel)."

    But you're "take" on her savior is incorrect. It was Vader who found her, yet it was the Emperor's scientists who restored her. As I said, Palpatine has a bond that can never be broken. He restored her in Vader's image when she was mortally wounded. Soon after her recovery, Vader began training her in the ways of the Force.

    We can effectively seperate Shira's two major points in her life. Shira Brie belonged to Palpatine 100%. It was Palpatine's scientists who gave her the genetic boosting - increased healing, increased pain threshold, etc.

    After her transformation into Lumiya - thanks to the Emperor's scientists - is when her new life with Vader began in earnest. Prior to the transformation, he had only been an outside observer who recommended her placement in certain programs.
  6. Matthew Trias Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
  7. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    All the more reason Genghis.

    If the Emperor made her into this sort of "FREAK" then she has a very good reason to hate him. Darth Vader shares her pain and they might indeed have a bond that they have both been turned into monsters by Palpatine.

    I still stick with the Emperor's "defense" of Skywalker and her causal dismissal is enough that she no longer blongs to Palpatine.

    ...

    Especially when I think her comic book appearences show that her loyalty to the Empire was waning or at least becomming conflicted with honest feeling to Luke.

    I commend really Marvel for eradicating the Happy ending there

  8. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Charlemagne...
    "All the more reason Genghis...

    ...For her to love him as the father who saved her life. ;)

    If the Emperor made her into this sort of "FREAK" then she has a very good reason to hate him. Darth Vader shares her pain and they might indeed have a bond that they have both been turned into monsters by Palpatine.

    The Emperor held no responsibility for turning either into a freak. He owns the responsibility for saving them both - giving them the chance to strike back at those who caused them such massive trauma. While the two of them may indeed share a bond that they are "children" of Palpatine, they must own all responsibility for the actions they took.

    In Lumiya's case, she essentially was "redeemed" through her ordeal. All of the actions she undertook as an Emperor's Hand, all of the Intel missions, everything carried out as the Empire's most elite agent was ultimately the reason for her becoming Lumiya. That is, the collective karma of being "bad" caused Luke to mis-read her in the TIE fighter, and he blew her out of the sky, even though at the time, she had fallen in love and embraced him. While she could have become one of Luke's most powerful new Jedi, the fault lies squarely on her shoulders for being evil.

    Same goes with Vader, yet the details aren't exactly known right now. However, the "Palaptine did it" excuse doesn't hold water to adults capable of making their own decisions.

    Vader and Shira are solely responsible for turning themselves into the "freaks" they became. If they bonded, it was only because they shared similar situations, not because their patron caused them the trauma. Otherwise neither would be taking responsibility for the things they've done, and neither shows such signs of weakness. That sort of delusional transplanting of guilt was saved for Palpatine's other red-haired Hand.
  9. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    Well like it or not Genghis your stuck in a rock and hard place here.

    You are probably Luminya's no. 1 fan and perhaps one of the causes of her return to prominence despite years of being ignored.

    I don't doubt the power of these forums.

    However the action they chose to take was that Luminya (a decent villian) was saddled onto Canor Jax (a lackluster one)

    So Genghis aside from a wussy Mara "I don't think it is the Emperor and thus he can be a bad guy in my mind" what exactly sort of reason can Luminya have for wanting to kill Palpatine?

    Unless we put personal feelings aside and believe that Luminya was following the Sith Code.

    "It is your duty to try and destroy the Sith Master and if he dies then it is as he wished it"

  10. Jedi----Cost Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 1
    what comic is lumiya in
  11. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Charlemagne...
    "Unless we put personal feelings aside and believe that Luminya was following the Sith Code."

    Certainly a reasonable explanation. Remember, she was following in the footsteps of the two people who played probably the most important role in her life - Vader and Palpatine. Vader "followed the Sith Code" in trying to turn his son to destroy the Emperor. The Emperor "followed the Sith Code" in trying to turn Vader's son as his new apprentice (removing Vader from the picture).

    Even with the rule of two - the Sith cannot seperate themselves from gaining more power. Vader & Luke would have the power to destroy the Emperor and rule the galaxy as father and son. Palpatine & Luke would have all the power of Palpatine and "Darth Vader," without the debilitating effects of lava-induced mortal wounds.

    With teaching like that, is there any doubt that Lumiya is not her fathers' (plural) daughter? If either had lived, they would have a proud smile knowing that Lumiya's machinations have honored the Sith, even if at the expense of themselves.
  12. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Jedi--Cost,

    Lumiya was in and out of the last five years worth of Marvel comics. She first appeared as Imperial agent, Shira Brie in the mid-fifties of that series. After a long story arc, she was out of the picture for several years and turned up again as Lumiya, Dark Lord (Lady) of the Sith in the end of the series to cause problems. Dark Horse comics reprinted several of her Shira Brie stories. Star Wars Galaxy Magazine did a story about her. She turned up in the Essential Chronology with new information. TOS's databank entry includes a lot of info on her traumatic crash at Luke's hands. Star Wars Gamer magazine included a fairly detailed account of her in their article on "Emperor's Hands."
  13. Simone Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    I am sorry but this Lumiya charater really does interest me. I have never read anything about her but she has appeared severel fan fiction stories that I have read. But I am curious to know in which comic did she defeat Luke.

    I mean how did she beat Luke I mean I know with her lightwhip (I think that's what it is called) but what did the whip do to him did it knock him uncounciess and what happened when he woke up.

    Is there anywhere that I can find out more.

    Thanks.
  14. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Simone,

    Good to see your interest in such an interesting character. For a good start, check out the recent thread who is Lumiya. It will no doubt give you more information than you'll be able to handle as well as point you to even more places where you can find additional information.

    Issue #96 was the "main event," Essentially, Lumiya overwhelmed him. The short is that she basically smacked his scrawny butt from one end of the battlefield to the other. However, she made the mistake of choosing to make him, his family and friends suffer instead of killing him on the spot. It seems even Sith Lords (Ladies) have problems with allowing heroes to linger a bit longer than they should've.
  15. Simone Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    Oh I really want to thankyou very much Genghis 12. You really helped me.

    Thankyou again, I shall check out the thread thankyou very much.
  16. darth-skycrawler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2001
    star 2
    How could lumiya beat luke the first time she shocked him with a weapon he had never encounted and therefore did not know how to fight against but as soo as luke found out her style he destoyed her in the rematch. Lumiya would never be able to take the chosen one by herself or palpatine. Vader only lost to luke because of the conflict vader could not use the force since he did not know what side he should use he could not harnass his hate for a son who had chosen to love him after he had killed virtually everybody he had held dear ie ben, owen and beru, briggs. He could not loose the lightside since he thought it was impossible to be turned back. therefore he was fighting luke pretty much blind. lumiya may have been trained by the best ever sith but she has not there skill or power. lumiya was not a trained weapon since she had training in infiltrating and other such things. Luke was a complete weapon since he did not have the diplomatic training which the jedi have or the knowledge of species which they are taught at jedi school. Lumiya would loose to luke get destroyed bu kenobi thrashed by vader and palpatine would not even bother to fight since she would be an unworthy challenge.
  17. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    Here's a counterpoint.

    Luke was in love with Shira Brie

    Brie Hated Luke.

    It was RotJ in twisted reverse
  18. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Darth_Skycrawler...
    "lumiya was not a trained weapon since she had training in infiltrating and other such things. Luke was a complete weapon since he did not have the diplomatic training which the jedi have or the knowledge of species which they are taught at jedi school."

    Shira Brie was trained by the best combatants in the Empire in all forms of combat. Luke did some cross-training with an old hermit. Shira Brie was the ultimate weapon of the Empire.

    I will grant that Luke was the ultimate weapon of two desperate guys.
  19. darth-skycrawler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2001
    star 2
    Genghis12 the ultimate weapon of the empire was vader himself. As for luke being trained by two desperate men your talking about the two greatest jedi ever the only reason they looked bad was because they were up against the two greatest sith ever. This weapon trained by two desperate men (luke)managed to beat the empires greatest weapon (vader although he was not full concentratin)The only way luke would loose is if he got dumb again and tried to turn her back to the lightside and she hit hm with that whip.
  20. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Darth-Skycrawler...
    "Genghis12 the ultimate weapon of the empire was vader himself."

    Not true. The Empire didn't create Vader. The Empire did create Lumiya.

    Vader was the Emperor's weapon. Shira Brie was the Empire's weapon. Slight difference.
  21. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    You know maybe Genghis we should fix you and Luminya up. Once she gets that asthma under control I'm sure she'd appreciate having such a staunch defender such as you at her side.

    Think of the weddin!

    The Prophets of the Dark Side performing the service!

    The Imperial march for her arrival!

    Mara Jade and the rest of the Luminya rip offs as the giggly bridesmaids!

    Luke could be drunk beating on a nearby window to the church!

    *tosses rice*
  22. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Nah - she's not my type. She seems to fall for the whiny doormats. :D
  23. III_Vir_RPC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 1
    Genghis12, the Empire and the Emperor are one and the same. A tool of the Empire is by definition a tool of the Emperor. As Louis XIV. put it, ?L?état, c?est moi.?
  24. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    III_Vir...
    "Genghis12, the Empire and the Emperor are one and the same."

    While metaphors are nice, the Empire is not a single, old wrinkled Sith Master - it is a vast galactic government with many individuals. Along those lines, The Emperor is an individual, not an Empire. The Emperor leads the Empire, but is not the sum total of it.

    As an individual, the Emperor can have weapons, just like as an institution, the Empire can have weapons.
  25. III_Vir_RPC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 1
    While metaphors are nice, the Empire is not a single, old wrinkled Sith Master ? it is a vast galactic government with many individuals.


    Indeed, the Empire is not a single, old wrinkled Sith Master---rather, it is that single Sith Master?s terrible swift sword, the means by which he imposed his singular will upon the galaxy. Palpatine created the Empire for the sole purpose of implementing his design. It serves no purpose other than to be the New Order, as envisioned and locuted by the Emperor.

    Examine the history of the Empire.

    Who created the Empire? Whose word was absolute in the Empire? Whose favour could make---or break---any man?s carreer? Whose will was the unquestioned law of the Empire? What was the pledge of the Imperial officer?

    Serve the Emperor above all others.

    The Emperor.

    The Essential Chronology states quite clearly that ?only the Emperor could rule the Empire.?

    The Empire, without the Emperor, is a headless beast, unable to function. Under no other leader could it succeed. Its very existence was dependent upon HIM.

    The Emperor leads the Empire, but is not the sum total of it.


    Ahh, but he is.

    The Empire was created solely to serve HIM. It has no function other than to serve his will. He is, therefore, of supreme importance.

    As an individual, the Emperor can have weapons, just like as an institution, the Empire can have weapons.


    Servants of the Emperor and servants of the Empire are like rectangles and squares. All examples of the latter are the former, but not all examples of the former are the latter. If, in any capacity, one serves the Empire or the servants of the Empire, one serves the Emperor.

    That does not mean that one is a loyal servant of the Emperor. Much like Iago was Othello?s ensign; Carnor Jax, Sarcev Quest, and Lady Lumiya are examples of servants of the Emperor who were poor servants, because they held other allegiances. Lady Lumiya was formally a servant of the Emperor, but she was devoted to her service as bastard Apprentice to Lord Vader.
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