ST Luke Skywalker's New (or Old) Jedi Order?

They have a point though. The title of "The Force Awakens" doesn't really imply that there have been dozens if not hundreds of Jedi scurrying about the galaxy since the ending of RotJ. Chances are this movie is about the return of the Force, maybe or maybe not literally, to a galaxy that has long since forgotten about it.

I'm looking at very few Jedi in this movie. Like, barely above ANH, where only really Obi Wan and Vader were using lightsabers for more than a short scene. Depending on whether or not the Inquisitorus is actually a thing in the ST or just how big the inevitable revival of the Sith will be, the number of Sith will probably be very low as well. However, chances are that we're looking at a quick jump in Jedi as the trilogy moves on, with Episodes 8 and 9 having large amounts of Jedi, around the size of the important Jedi in the PT, large, but not as large as the total amount of Jedi in the entire PT.

 

Gonna throw my two cents into this one. I for one, wasn't tired of it. As a matter of fact, I think it was pretty obvious that it was peaking when it was unceremoniously cancelled. Dismissing either show from "movie" lore as "something for the kids" or "minor characters," at this point is just inane. I think "Rebels" very assertive and aggressive presence is a reminder that we've come a long way. In the eighties and nineties, we all would have killed for Star Wars shows of this calibur depicting the things we've seen in them.

Apparently we now take that saturation for granted. I for one would love to see characters from any of the shows pop up (well, maybe not Jar Jar).

*Side Note. For those who don't get the allure of "TCW" or "Rebels," and never sat down and gave at least the former an honest try ( which is a thing that makes me very sad, as there are arcs of that series that I hold on equal footing to some of the best Star Wars stories ever told, and that includes Dark Empire and the "OT) a lot of it has to with Dave Filoni and his team proving that being given the time, talent, and resources, there was a way to salvage the characterizations and motivations of the "PT," and tell an intriguing and believable story that the movies just never were able to convey.

Does anyone saying they are sick of it understand what was accomplished with "TCW?" They took a saturated and some would say damaged franchise, and carved out a way to return Obi-Wan, Yoda, Anakin, Palpantine, and all the most lamented, missed opportunity, prequel trilogy characters and returned them to the impossible heights they once inhabited in regards to the "OT."

They did the best possible world building over 6 seasons I think I've ever seen a T.V. show pull off, and if he does it again with "Rebels," I for one would be more than happy to acknowledge in the "ST" with more than just, "look who it is!" cameos. * Rant over.

Nonetheless, back on the original topic, I think nearly every leak or spoiler has made it perfectly clear Luke did pretty much nothing with the Jedi Order after "ROTJ," so I'm not really sure why anyone would think this would be a thing in Episode VII.

I mean if one thing has been consistent in regards to the leaks, it's "hermit Luke." But for the excitement apparent in this thread for it, I hope I'm wrong.

 

Excuse me while I eat crow a little bit...

I actually gave Rebels a chance yesterday and was pleasantly surprised. The marketing of the show makes it seem like a watered down kids show, when in reality, it's actually fairly gritty (for Disney). I mean, I tried to keep track of how many Stormtroopers died, and couldn't.

However my main issue was with the branding of Star Wars for the TCW period. While it was a great show, I just felt it watered down the Star Wars brand. Seeing generic clone troopers everywhere and the font labeling everything really turned me off of a lot of things.

And honestly, I would agree with you that Rebels is so far, superior to TCW. The idea is more original and they have more room to play around in the Star Wars sandbox. And, as much as I love lightsabers, TCW seemed to light up a lightsaber every other scene. Rebels is a little more subtle with that (up to what I've seen)

 

Re: TCW dominating, it's not the show that bothered me in the least, it was that so much of everything revolved around it... Hasbro made horrid cardbacks for the two separate toy lines (movie/everything-else TLC with Stormie helmet cards, TCW with Phase I clone helmet cards; visually, sure, a fan could tell the difference while looking, but at a glance it was two separate lines with big white helmet cards that were often mixed up on the pegs, disregarded by the employees--not seeing any TCW figures for ages because the disaster that was the Yarna d'al'Gargan over-distribution was filling both TLC and TCW pegs since employees didn't care about the difference between toy line & SKU), and generally Clone Wars/PT branding overshadowed nearly everything... that was tiresome, for me.

While the Luke rumors are interesting now, too many people seemed to be banking on Hermit Luke long before even the full casting announcement, let alone the actual start of rumors... people thought he'd have taken over Obi-Wan's hut, or Yoda's hut, and just been chilling out there being a hermit just because they were, and maybe had only trained one or two people (but not Leia, since even those that ignored the EU seemed to think she'd still be Politician Lady, despite Mon Mothma utterly usurping that role in ROTJ and Leia finally exhibiting conscious Force-use in sensing Luke's survival). One of my main objections to Hermit Luke back then is it was just more of the same, only without reason; Obi-Wan & Yoda had very good reasons for being the hermits they were, the former guarding Luke, the latter staying alive to help guide Obi-Wan & Luke and keep an eye on things from a world teeming with so much life. I know the recent rumors have very good reasons for Luke hiding away, terrified of what he might do or what he might become and those are far preferable than "Well, it's what Yoda & Ben did" or "he's hiding from the Empire" or whatever.

Given Luke's rapid training--Yoda did say his training would be complete, and the spirits could probably have filled in any other blanks following the Battle of Endor--I was hoping that he'd have trained Leia in the months/couple-years following ROTJ (it wouldn't have put off her romance with Han for very long, nor prevented her from having babies, and the training would be done quickly enough that she'd be able to still do politics if Mon Mothma needed her to... but politicians grow on trees, while potential Jedi are extremely few & far between), and sought out other Force-sensitives, other ex-Jedi (whether Knights/Masters that 'quit' in order to survive, or those who never completed training like Kanan from REBELS), and would have trained up a few to have a small NJO established.

Such a thing wouldn't have meant the ST would be 'full' of Jedi, as some fear; it'd only be a dozen or two total compared to the 10,000 there were around TPM/AOTC, and most of them would be off on missions elsewhere in the galaxy (cuz, y'know, the galaxy is big), putting out local fires, guarding peace & justice across the newish Republic. Only Luke and maybe a couple others, including perhaps some New Hope who had yet to begin any training, would've been 'featured' in the ST if that had come to pass; the others would simply be busy doing other things. No temple crawling with Jedi, no large council of bathrobe-wearers navel-gazing while only letting 3 of their number even speak... If Luke was supposed to be the beginning of the return of the Jedi, delaying it for three decades seems the wrong way to go. I mean, yes, it'd mean Jedi are "special" again, few & far between, but with the proper handling even an established order of many would be just as special since the story would only focus on a few.

 

I agree completely, Rebels is FAR superior to TCW.

 

I wonder if this is because it's not trying to fit in with established characters and events. It can be it's own thing with only the loose frame work of ANH to tie it together.

I mean, don't get me wrong, TCW had it's moments. But eventually, it just became bloated and kind of overwhelming in the Star Wars universe. It's like what Frozen did for Disney, TCW did for Star Wars.

 

I don't think were going to see an establishment of the Jedi Order till the end of TFA. I mean you guys think they're going to give up the gravey train of having a Jedi in any TV series going forward.

However why would the Jedi be exiled by the government. Seeing as how the Alliance and Empire are still duking it out once its revealed that you have more force users being born, wouldn't both sides try to weaponize it. If I were a general in an army I wouldn't exile a force user because of something that happened nearly twenty-five years ago, instead I'd grab as many surviving jedi and new force users and build my self a team of super powered soldiers. I mean post Emperor all the Inqusistors still have to be working for the Empire as well.

That may be a reason alongside his escalating power that Luke left,

 

The galaxy was fed anti-Jedi sentiment for years. The last thing a lot of people remember is the Emperor destroying planets and stuff. The Jedi order couldn't prevent the current mess, and in fact, they may have caused. The average citizen isn't going to know the difference between Sith and Jedi. It's just another religion to a lot of people.

 

I'm not talking the average citizen though, but the two big military/goverment complexes that are the alliance and the Empire. While they had a no Jedi sentiment on the outside, internally things could be another matter with both trying to have the power of a Force user of their side. Luke said enough of it with his teaching being drowned out and got the hell out of there.

 

Possible... Luke may have been scared of what he could do with his growing power, and he may have been scared of what his people (the Alliance) might try to do with it, through him. The Empire (I sincerely hope there are no Inquisitors left) may want to quash any Force-using individuals not so much from old anti-Jedi bias, but even from a post-Emperor bias. "The boogiemen that ran our Empire are dead; no more of this choking subordinates via magic from afar for any little mistake. We don't have to live in fear of the Emperor or his pet Vader any longer...and we shall endeavor to make sure nobody ever rises to take their place. The first step in this mission: Find Skywalker, and end him. No more wizards shall rule the galaxy."

 

My theory is Leia is the only one who knows where Luke is. She is able to vaguely sense his presence from their strong force connection. Along the way, Daisy and Han stop to ask Leia where Luke is.

If there is any force users or small band of padawans, Leia is training them to the best of her ability in his absence, while trying to maintain her role in the government at the same time.

However, when the big baddie appears, Luke needs to return to teach them how to fight.

 

The problem with having tons of leaders is that it's disorganized. The Jedi need direction, just wandering the galaxy looking for injustices will cause problems.

 

I doubt it will be so much an "order" and more a small group of individual Jedi going out to recruit more. I can totally see a force ghost jedi council though.

 

If this is the case and he trained noone, it must be really very well explained, since ROTJ exactly left without a doubt the impression that this would happen. The only possibility that it did not happen would be that the former friends/Rebellion turned against him after revealing that he is the son of Darth Vader. But that would be sad, since he risked his life to save them.

 

I think the possibility of someone in the Republic who doesn't necessarily like the Jedi is a good one. The OT was a very utopian rebellion in a lot of respects. There was no internal issues and everybody seemed to get along. This is probably the most unrealistic part of the OT, and makes lightsabers seem like a cake walk in terms of feasibility.

 

I do agree on this one and it would be indeed very realistic. In real life conflicts/battles, former united factions fall apart after a victory and start fighting each other.

 

It dominated the market because the movies were done, thus it had to be the place to go to for new material. It's the same way that between each "Transformers" cartoon and movie, there are toys from different eras that are put out focus on other eras or ideas, while new material is being created. For TCW, there was no new material in 2008, so it stood to reason to go that route with it becoming the dominate force until "Rebels" and now "The Force Awakens". Yes, newer figures of the PT and OT characters have come out and will continue to as time goes on, but there will also be spin off material as well. TCW was going to be the golden goose until the show ended. Part of its funding came from merchandise sales.

 

Luke's Jedi order will be entirely in his mind.




Because he's schizophrenic.

 

Nooooooooooooooo

 

Yeeeeesssssss

 

Don't quite understand what you mean by more original. TCW is far more original in depth and scope and directly from Lucas as opposed to Rebels which is trading off of Lucas.

The lightsaber comment is also strange. I mean TCW is about Jedi fighting in erm... The Clone Wars. Rebels isn't. So how exactly that is subtle I don't know.

 

I know what you're saying. But Rebels is original in the sense that it doesn't follow the story from any major character's POV. It's 5 original characters going through adventures.

And yes, in TCW lightsabers were used far more than necessary. Because people like lightsabers. That's half of what made Star Wars, Star Wars. But there is such thing as lightsaber overload.

 

Luke: But how am I to know the good side from the bad?

Luke: You will know... once you start talking to yourself!

Luke: But master.. how will I know when I've started talking to myself?

Luke: Once crazy you reach, forever will it dominate your destiny!

 

OBI-WAN: "Your father's Lightsaber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or as random as a blaster. An elegant weapon for a more civilized day."

Lightsabers were used because that was the weapon of the Jedi and the Sith. The Lightsaber was used sparingly in the OT because a) the technology was a bit limited in making it function and b) there were only three people using them. One who was in the twilight of his career, one who was crippled and one who was barely trained. In fact, Luke uses it more in TESB and ROTJ than in ANH. He uses it four times in TESB, with three more scenes winding up on the cutting room floor. And Han uses it once. In ROTJ, he uses it three times with a fourth scene on the cutting room floor. Not to mention when you watch ROTJ, Luke stops carrying a blaster and only relies on a Lightsaber.

 

Neat to see this thread reach 100 pages. I've never had a thread grow so powerful.

Well, as anyone can see who reads the beginning of this thread, I always assumed there would be an Order to start the ST. My main question before the rumors was what kind or Order would it be, and I assumed that the writers would want something different from the PT. I had thought that would mean more regular Jedi for people to relate to -- they'd likely get married and have families and not only would that make them more interesting to most of the audience, it might also lead to new kinds of conflicts -- like fights between Jedi clans -- and more turning to the darkside since we all know that having families not only means more love, but more hate as well.

But now it seems the writers have smartly realized that they don't want the Order being rebuilt offscreen, but to be depicted in the ST itself. To do this they've come up with the surprising yet neat plot device of Luke growing so powerful that he had to exile himself to contain and control his power. This, if true, is a brilliant plot decision because it will likely lead to some interesting new conflicts and Force users.

Without Luke training Jedi for 30 years we'll have a whole generation of Force users who:

1) Will essentially be gray Force users because they won't be trained as Jedi or Sith. Instead, they'll train themselves in haphazard ways like we see superheroes like Spiderman do when they discover their powers. This group will eventually become the first new Jedi when Luke finally trains them in E8 and E9, but until then, they will be highly unpredictable, and hence, interesting. Some, of course, will fall to the darkside, or perhaps like Driver's character is rumored to do, will search Sith history for forbidden knowledge and power.

2) May have been trained by the Imperial remnant as an elite form of Stormtrooper. Their emergence into a Cold War situation would shift the balance of power back towards the Imperials.

3) Or these Force users may have been trained by other groups, like private armies, mercenaries, crime lords, or other governments hungry for power, like the Mandalorians, or new governments.

I read this idea from one of Episode7news' articles, and I thought it was pretty spot on at the time, and I'd be pretty surprised if something like it didn't take place in the ST. The reason the writers would choose this is because they're probably trying to bring back the feeling of a space western, where the GFFA is a place full of dangerous rogues, and what better way than to have a bunch of independent Force users who have come to age in a galaxy without Jedi or Sith?