ST Luke Skywalker's New (or Old) Jedi Order?

I've been personally promoting this idea for quite some time.

Though I'm partial to simply calling them "The Skywalkers."

 

Absolutely. And I like the idea that the actual name becomes something... more.

 

It would certainly be interesting if Ep. 8 went in that direction. I remember having a strange, nostalgic feeling when i heard Chirrut say, "May the Force of Others be with you." I immediately wondered how many people in the theater with me got the reference. That was an awesome addition.

 

A legend, Mr. Skywalker.

 

Hrmmm, I understand what you are saying, but I'm going to have to "nope" back at you. Luke's goal, in RotJ is to save his father. Yoda and Obi-wan are, for sure, opposed to this. Obiwan flat out tells Luke, If you dont kill Vader, then we lose.

Yoda tells Luke, in ESB, what the plan is. You gotta be fully trained to stand up to all the crazy stuff they are going to throw at you; and you have to take them out.

Luke is not being sent in to hand out light-side pamphlets. They are training Luke to conquer Vader and the Emperor.

But I'm sure you've seen the movies as many times as I have and like them just as much as I do.
Art is subjective, so that's my "certain point of view"

 

yeah Luke was being trained to Kill Vader, just like Yoda and Obi-Wan were set on killing Vader and Sidious at the end of Ep3.

 

"The Emperor has already won" because Luke won't even entertain the idea of killing Vader. I don't think they are saying he has to, but he must be willing to.

 

Which Luke does....and without killing Vader, no less. You have to look at the whole quote:

Luke: There is still good in him.
Obi-Wan: He's more machine now than man. Twisted and evil.
Luke: I can't do it, Ben.
Obi-Wan: You cannot escape your destiny. You must face Darth Vader again.
Luke: I can't kill my own father!
Obi-Wan: [resigned] Then the Emperor has already won. You were our only hope.

Once again, Ben talks about "facing" Darth Vader. Luke doesn't even want to back to Vader. He even says later on:

LUKE: I'm endangering the mission. I shouldn't have come.

The problem is, Luke doesn't see any alternative other than killing Vader. But Ben telling Luke that he can turn Vader causes two problems: first, there's a difference between talking the talk, and walking the walk. Luke has to believe he can...simply telling him to do so isn't sufficient. A similar case can be found in The Matrix, when the Oracle tells Neo that he's not The One, although she leaves subtle hints like:

ORACLE
Sorry, kid. You got the gift, but
it looks like you're waiting for
something.
NEO
What?
ORACLE
Your next life, maybe. Who knows?
That's how these things go.

Now, was the Oracle wrong about Neo being The One? Or, as the movie hints, did she tell him what he needed to know in order to become The One?

MORPHEUS
Don't think of it in terms of
right and wrong. She is a guide,
Neo. She can help you find the
path.

Imagine if she'd told Neo he had to die before he could become The One? Would he have been so willing to go after Mr. Smith if he knew that he would have to die?

Secondly, telling Luke that he could turn Vader back from the Dark Side kinda takes away from the suspense of the scene. Ben, Yoda, and Leia are all telling him it's too late for Vader, and even Luke, himself, loses his sense of purpose when Vader threatens Leia.....but it is ultimately Luke's ability to turn from the Dark Side at his darkest moment that finally convinces Vader that he, himself, can turn back from the Dark Side as well.

 

Well, grey jedi sounds terrible for me. Jedi will be jedi. Also, I don't think that the new philosophy will preach some middle ground. It is the battle of light and dark. Lighter dark does not make sense in this kind of stories. Characters may question what is right and wrong but it is another matter.
If some EU materials like Rebels are using neutral force users, I guess it is not because that they are seeding something before the films. I mean I don't believe that story group is planting some ideas as a preparation. Probably it is just that they are being a little creative, and noone cares what they do in the EU.

 

Was a sensible discussion just had about a disagreement in the interpretation of something within Star Wars??!
High five team!

But yeah, to veer back on topic,
I don't think "grey" jedi as in; I'm only sort-of evil; is going to happen, because we are told that the darkside is a slippery tempting slope. so any "grey" force users would eventually fall to darkness
But I do think that there will be a third ...faction(?) and that third group is being called "grey" for lack of a better term. I think it will be something bigger than the yin/yang of lightside darkside that keeps the whole wheel turning. but I don't know if it is going to have active members like the lightside has jedi.
I basically think Luke is going to become a god.

 

Sounds like Resident Evil-Jedi
No thanks

 

Its only me, or the plot and the fandom are going against what the movies themselves have established?

Almost all of us have asumed that the prequels jedi where tremendously flawed. Their ways and lore were their doom. Thats what we think, and what most likely luke is thinking. All the feelings represed lead to the darkside and bla bla

But was this what we ve seen in the movies?

No, quite the contrary.

We ve seen three fallen jedi against what? Dozens of jedi well trainned and calmy living according to their lernings, doing good for the galaxy?

And what those three fallen guys have in common?

They where trainned AGAINST the rules. None of them are jedis by the book. The now suposedly tremendously flawed book.

Dooku is well aware of his heritage. He knows he is a nobleman and the power and fame of his family. There are attachments there, and the seed of an arrogance that brings his fall. He is a count!

Then Anakin is again, trainned against the rules. The kid was to old, and afraid. Everybody knew it.

Finally the same goes with Ben Solo. Trainned in a family envioroment? knowing he is an organa and trainned by his super famous uncle, while they hide his vaders grand son? again. To many attachments, the boy should not had been trainned.

So all the downfalls dont probe at any point that the old Jedi code is wrong. Quite the contrary.

Kiddnaping boys when they were almost babies, and then trainning them without attachments its quite a succesful way to make calm monks as Obi Wan. And this was not probed wrong at any point of the franchise.

Is this nice? of course not... but did jedi fall because of this as we all have asumed?

In any case, Luke horrendous, but logical view should had been... fack, I should have sticked to the kidnapping babies stuff.

 

Luke was raised by family... as well as kidnapped as a baby. Maybe this is the "Balance" that the Jedi need?

 

In what galaxy would it be wise to let the grandson of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader not be trained by Luke Skywalker? The kid was born with power, if he did not get teaching from Luke, he would have sought it elsewhere. The Jedi of old were blinded by ignorance and arrogance BECAUSE of their stringent code. It was their version of helicopter parenting. All of the shielding that they put around the Jedi to keep them from the dark side ultimately hurt them. Qui Gon Jinn, the most wise of them all, was shunned for how he understood and practiced the Force and in the end, it was HE who was teaching Yoda.

Luke isn't going to go dark, Luke is going to redefine the Jedi. This doesn't mean that he will be "gray" or even dip his toes into the dark side, it just means that he will go much further than the Jedi of old to understand the Dark Side.

 

There's probably a bit of an issue with the execution/the subtlety of the Jedi's flaws (it's a valid reading of the prequels but it's not quite as front and centre as it could have been)
But for me, the crucial point is this; a Jedi Order that fails Anakin, basically fails so much that it subverts classic myth (think Harry Potter joining Voldemort) isn't fit for purpose, and while Anakin made terrible decisions, he wouldn't have got to that point if the Jedi hadn't forced him to hide his emotions and circumstances. Think Yoda telling him to just let go of everything he feared to lose.

 

it's just a line in a teaser. we don't know anything about the context.

 

Who knows, the line (might) not even end up in the movie.

 

The Classic Jedi ended soon after the execution of the Sith initiated Order 66, intending to wipe out the Jedi Order. The Jedi discovered Anakin, but not in time to save them.
The Second Trilogy was the story of The Son of Skywalker seeking out his father, the prophesied Chosen One in order to destroy all order, to bring about balance in The Force. Luke remained as the only Jedi...balance was not yet restored, but restoration was within only him...

In the ST, we'll see Luke has so far failed in his attempt to re-create or re-establish what's come before. Jedi are all the time failing at things, it seems.
He's now learned that..."It's so much bigger" than the GFFA understood in the past. Luke is the New Hope...and Rey is his weapon (or light...um...savior. I mean saber...or something...).