ST Luke Skywalker's New (or Old) Jedi Order?

I felt the EU got it right with how Luke should reconstitute the Jedi Order, basically avoid the aspects of the old Jedi Order that led to Anakin's downfall, as in let Jedi see their families, have a greater choice in life, marry, have children etc.

 

Well, I guess I'll be the devil's advocate and say that trying to "fix" the Jedi Order as we saw it in the prequels could have serious blowback down the line. It may be in the best interest of the New Order to follow in the traditions of the Old Order. You know, the Jedi of the Old Republic probably had really good reasons for doing things the way they did them. For instance:

1) Peacekeeping role - The role of the Jedi is to be guardians of the galaxy. That is their function. If they cease to be peacekeepers they lose their relevance. Who cares about the Jedi if all they do is sit around and meditate on the mysteries of the Force all day? They must use their powers for the good of the Galaxy.

2) Senate oversight - This is where I differ with a lot of you guys. I think the Jedi MUST be accountable to the Senate. A fully autonomous Jedi Order would likely lead to very bad things eventually. If you have a small but very powerful Force-and-lightsaber-wielding paramilitary organization that regularly interferes in the affairs of Republic worlds and the lives of Republic citizens, there must be at least some form of public oversight. No matter how well-intentioned Luke might be, he's just one (fallible) man. What happens after he dies? What if some charismatic, dark-side leaning figure takes over the Jedi? Even if that doesn't happen, it seems like the Republic government and the Jedi would be butting heads and stepping on each others toes all the time. If they're only accountable to the Force (aka God), eek... bad times, that's all I'm sayin'. Not to mention, where do they get their funding?

3) Family matters - Okay, I get why this is controversial. It seems contrary to human nature to stay celibate and not have families. But consider this - if Force sensitivity is an inherited genetic trait, one could foresee the rise of powerful Jedi clans that would be more loyal to each other than to the Order, the Republic, or their ideals. Also, it seems like there could be the possibility of instituting a Jedi eugenics program of sorts, where the Order would selectively pair the most powerful males and females to breed ever more powerful Jedi, which could become very dangerous. Making Jedi procreation taboo avoids these problems. On the other hand, it does seem problematic to take infants into the order possibly without parental consent - although we never do know whether Jedi indoctrination is mandatory for Force-sensitive children.

4) Jedi Council - You have to have a robust organizational structure. The New Jedi Order can't be the cult of Luke Skywalker if it's going to survive very long. Having a council of twelve wise and powerful masters gives the organization the ability to outlive its founding leader, unlike the Empire which was dependent on one powerful strongman running the show.

5) Coruscant - It would also make sense to base the Jedi Order on Coruscant once again, because of its central location, symbolic importance and ease of oversight. The Jedi shouldn't be cloistered away at some remote, far-off sanctuary - they should be central to galactic affairs. Also, I can't think of anything more symbolic of the Jedi's return than the reopening of the Jedi Temple. It's like sticking it straight to Palpatine.

 

I like your idea, but as a long-time Arthurian and medieval history/romance afficianado, I have to point out that many versions of Camelot had 150 knights at the Round Table. In the Carolingian stories, Charlemagne had 12 paladins to serve his empire, so that's another legend to look at for inspiration. And that reminds me that I still haven't started reading Orlando Inamorato, which is still gathering dust on my bookshelf.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread topic.

 

That's actually the one thing that I liked about the DN trilogy. Unlike in the PT where families of young Jedi weren't allowed to see their children, in Luke's Order the families lived at the Academy and were given jobs there so they could be near their Force sensitive children. I would love to see that in the ST.

 

I agree that some changes that seem so obvious could actually lead to blowback. So yes to peacekeepers, but No to serving as an army. Fighting any war, no matter how noble, will necessarily demand actions that place the Jedi in a gray area, and on the path to the darkside. Maybe Jedi can serve in the military by their own choice, as long as the Jedi Council doesn't forbid it. The Jedi could aid either side in a conflict as they see fit, but they should never be taking orders from those who don't base their decisions on the will of the force.

The Hellhammer

I'm wondering just how active they should be. If they really want to keep the peace, they need to be as big of a force as possible. Functioning maybe like the Green Lantern Corp, dispersed throughout the galaxy so there is no system not covered. Like the Lanterns, they could sometimes leave their systems in times of crisis.

But I'm also wondering if the Jedi would also function like peacekeepers in other ways. When they aren't fighting, are they helping to rebuild societies? Feed the poor? House the homeless? I would argue, Yes.

Oversight sounds okay to me, but the Jedi must remain independent. They should attempt to be an independent entity that still takes part in international (intergalactic) affairs, like Switzerland does in the UN. That is, the Republic should vote on Jedi organizational independence, perhaps with the ability to negotiate certain matters through treaty or bills. The key is that Jedi policy and action oriented activities should be decided by the Jedi alone. They should have the ultimate say how they fight in particular events.

I'm actually surprised people don't seem to take the threat seriously of family and clan conflicts, especially how those personal and familial rifts would likely lead to the darkside. People must take for granted the essential positive nature of the nuclear family to believe that it's such an ideal locus for raising Jedi. I think it's a horrible idea. I agree with the old Order that Jedi need special teachers, rather than blood parents. Like Plato's guardians, it's more enriching for each Jedi to be raised by multiple parents, or masters, in order to learn more about the galaxy and to have a wide appreciation of its multiplicity. Also, their primarily allegiance should be to the Jedi, not mom and pop with their local prejudices and ideology.

Reforms that should be made include: 1) Allowing Jedi to maintain a relationship with their family. 2) Jedi have to ask permission of the parents for a child to be taken into the order. They can always keep track of their progress like Professor X does with non X-Men mutants.

ScorpionJedi:

The Jedi could have families, but they would be raised by the order, not just the family members. And the family could not take them as apprentices; or at least, the family shouldn't be the only or primary Masters.

I agree with this one. There should be a democratic structure, but perhaps a nominal leadership that alternates regularly. One of the leaders jobs should be to review whether or not the current principles and rules are working to expectation. The old Jedi just seem to accept every tradition blindly.

Embassy yes; Temple no. We've seen what can happen on Coruscant when the Republic turns against the Jedi. It's simply not autonomous enough. They can keep a presence in important places throughout the galaxy without centering their base of operations in a place that will only lead to easy corruption and compromise.

Darth_Pevra:

Twelve seems like a small number to me. That sounds good for the council, but in thirty years I think we could expect at least a hundred or so. This is a big GFFA.

Darth Chiznuk:

Love this. Hope that can be the protagonist POV throughout the ST.

Revanfan1:

Yes. Any color but red!!!

 

Twelve seems like a small number to me. That sounds good for the council, but in thirty years I think we could expect at least a hundred or so. This is a big GFFA.[/quote]

Not if Luke trains one Jedi after another. Then twelve is not such a small number. With twelve Jedi everyone who appears could feel mysterious and powerful, like they did in the OT. But if you put 100 on screen this effect diminishes.

Sarge
Thanks for the information. I'm really not an expert on King Arthur, I only know he is depicted in contemporary media.

 

1.) I cannot agree more. Perhaps more in advisory role to secular leaders than actual law enforcement.

2.) We really need to get away from the infant / child padawan thing. That was an element that retroactive George decided to add to his prequel series. Why? So he could give little Ani his pod race.

Growing up with the OT, I always had the impression Ben and Anakin were peers on some level. Ben was a Jedi Knight, Anakin was a gifted pilot and "good friend". Hardly accolades a 25 year old man would bestow upon on a 9 year old child. It was like one friend taught the other a secret power / skill. Back then, the idea was *anyone* could tap into the Force.

For good or bad, Luke was successfully trained to Jedi knighthood as an adult. As the new master, Luke's wisdom may decide it's better to select padawan candidates that are mature. At an age when a person's inner self becomes manifest on the outside. A much better evaluation of character and maturity can be had in this way than the unpredictable outcome of an infant to adulthood "training program". Perhaps the candidate them-self has already faced some type of telling personal "trial(s)" that reveal what kind of person they are?

The largest benefit to this adjustment would be to gain students that, as adults, WANT TO BE THERE; for the right reasons. Not like the Chinese gymnastics program that takes very young kids and starts conditioning them because as a toddler they passed some agility test. It should be the person's mature choice if they want to pursue that lifestyle. It should not be forced (pardon the pun) because of natural ability.

3.) Agreed concerning Coruscant. Also like the idea of the Jedi ambassador. Love the idea of Tatooine.

4.) The commonly accepted idea that Leia has been a Jedi for decades up to Episode 7. It would be nice to see her exercise free will and modesty, declining the offer to train. (If she is, in fact, his actual birth sister! )

 

Well, you can still have 100 Jedi and not show them all on screen at once, which I recall is an issue for you. You just say most of them are out busy Jediing things and what not while the 12 masters kick back at the ranch -- er, temple.

Or 12 knights could be on a mission or some such, right?

But I also hope for a huge Jedi-Sith battle at some point, so sorry, P.

Bullhead CIty:

This is a pretty simple solution. And I like it. Seriously, adults are formed by their 20s or 30s mentally, so why not become Jedi then?

I suppose the old Order answer would be: their attachments will make them value certain things (people, planets, ideologies) more than the will of the force. It does make a Jedi more human though, which I think is an important aspect ... well, if the Jedi or alien has a human-oriented consciousness. Attachment wouldn't be much of an issue for some aliens, I spose, would it?

Another danger in only recruiting adults: other organizations will snatch them up and use them for corrupt purposes. This seems like a strong objection.

 

I wouldn't have a problem at all with 100 knights, I'd just prefer smaller numbers. Sure you can only show a bunch of them but the audience would still know (through exposition), that there would be much more Jedi around.

I kinda liked when TPM started with only two Jedi. They appeared strange and mysterious. But as soon as we got to see the council and got to know that the Jedi are a huge organization that effect diminished. The lowpoint of course was AOTC when we saw that Jedi knights are absolutely disposable.

 

I think there's something to be said for not showing the Jedi as being as organised, institutionalised and as legion as the prequels. However, I do think that this was the point of the Jedi in the prequels... i.e. to show them as complacent, bureaucratic and ripe for the plucking. I think as an organisation in Ep VII they will be much leaner and meaner...

 

I'd still like an Arena-like scene, where they have to call in all the Jedi to get things done, but that's the thing–it would be all the Jedi. Maybe someone says "There's no one else?" And Luke or whoever's in charge of the group says, "This is everyone. Every Jedi in the galaxy, gathered into one place." Something like that–that way you know something huge is going down, and we know there aren't other Jedi who could be helping but aren't.

 

My idea of the Jedi Order is very different to the canon version. I see Jedi more as people who can harness the force to a significant extent. They are very few and far between, perhaps only a few thousand throughout the entire galaxy. Some aren't interested in becoming warriors, some cant harness the force enough to be a Jedi knight, but are more like local magicians/spiritual leaders. Only the most powerful Jedi come to be part of the Jedi order, and the very best become knights.

A lot more spiritually-lead than the old order, they act in the interests of justice and peace rather than being dictated to by the republic. The PT Jedi Order were over confident and complacent, and whiny because of it. Look at Luke in ROTJ - extremely confident, but also calm and humble. This is how Jedi should be. They shouldn't seek rockstar status like Anakin appeared to.

They should be elusive. They should have a loose organisation, a council of elder Jedi Knights that serve the force, not the Republic.

 

This is very much where I stand as well!

point number one: I completely agree that their ultimate goal is to be one with the force. And to understand the mysteries of force...

Point number two: that is exactly how I feel regarding Senate oversight. can you say: Knights Templar!? We all know how well that worked out.

Point number three: I got to be honest, I'm not really sure where I stand with the whole family thing... I see benefits As well as negatives to both sides...

Point number four: Whatever new Jedi order needs to have a strong organizational structure is important. you can't have a long lasting structure built on a weak foundation. Without any kind of structure there will only be confusion, and nothing will last.

I guess the only thing I don't necessarily agree with is having the order on Coruscant again...I think if they were centralized on the planet that is strong with the force but out-of-the-way of all of the political goings-on, that would allow them to focus on the most important thing Without disturbance: The living force.


In retrospect I suppose I could've just done those quote boxes....

anyway those are my thoughts.

thank you for your time.

 

I think that Luke will keep what has worked for him.

1. He will keep the One to One or Padawan Learner Syle.
2. I think he will allow Jedi to forge attachments but not allow them to publicize them for fear of allowing others to use them against you.
3. I think he'll reconstruct the Yedi Temple in a place not known by many like Yavin, Dagobah or Ilum where the actual Jedi Crystals are found.
4. I think that an Older Jedi (Ahsoka Tano) should be allowed to return to the order since she could shed much light on the older order and its falacies.
5. They should not be aligned with the Senate but should only be present as advisers.
6. Younglings should be allowed to live with their parents as long as the parents agree to live within the Temple walls.
7. The Jedi Council should consist of 13 members, each member holding rank titles by seniority. (Not just Master) but Junior Master, Grand Master, Supreme Master Etc.
8. The Jedi should only get involved if all 13 members of the council are in agreement.

 

This is a good idea, but there's one problem with it: there will probably always be a member of the council who's too hotheaded for the others, or too conservative for some, and so on. At the very least, the Grand Master (Luke) should at least be able to pass a final vote that the council would have to follow. If not, nothing would ever be done because there'd always be conflict between the members.

 

Sounds good to me. Luke has Veto powers!

 

After an absence of Jedi, other than Luke, things of the old order are going to be hard to fulfill. Since Luke is the only Jedi Master things in the Order are going to have to be overlooked. The Old Ways are no more at least until the Jedi can be in greater numbers. It's kind of hard to find Force sensitive candidates and I am sure families are not going to just let their children leave to become Jedi with some old hermit /shaman.

 

It would make Luke a dictator.

He doesn't like something? Then all others can screw themselves. How about majority vote instead?

 

Agree with everything except 7

 

I'm not saying he's a dictator. But a veto power would be very important. What if the Jedi Order was making a decision that Luke considered dark side? I'll grant that it should only be a power he'd use in an extreme case, and there should otherwise be a majority vote, but he definitely needs to have that power.

 

Total veto powers would mean that Luke has the power to shoot down everything he doesn't like and as we know absolute power corrupts absolutely. Having this amount of power and control would simply make him a dictator.

If the Jedi Council was making a decision that Luke consider dark side he would simply need to accept that. Who says that Luke is more in the right than everyone else? I would think the other Jedi are also adults with experience.

It would be very hypocritical if the Jedi are both defenders of democracy but don't believe in democracy in their own temple walls.

 

Then he'd be complicit in any evil they did. No, that doesn't work.

 

Initially I mentioned that all 13 members should agree to any actions prior to any involvement. This would insure no divisions, and that the decision taken would have the support and backing of every member of the council.

 

"Complicit"? That is assuming that Luke has more wisdom than all the other council members combined and I don't think the Luke of the movies would ever be so arrogant to think that. If he truly respects the other Jedi and he should because he himself trained them, then he would surely respect their opinion too. Luke knows humility. He also knows that he himself is a flawed being just like all the others.

 

I would love the Idea that the new Home of Luke's Jedi Order is on a Ship instead of some Planet.

- Causing no political trouble because theyre were connected to some Locations.

- Always on the move. Keep the Peace where it needs to be, guided by the Force.