Discussion Luke Skywalker's New (or Old) Jedi Order?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by Dra---, Aug 19, 2013.

  1. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    I don't understand this either. It just seems as if some people are totally against Luke having children of his own, but they're fine with Han and Leia having their own kids. It doesn't make any sense to me why an adopted child would make a better story for the ST or how it would fit better into the family saga which we've been following in Episodes 1 through VI . We had a Skywalker in the prequel trilogy and in the Original Trilogy. Why can't we also follow a Skywalker who is Luke's biological child in the future trilogy?
    Last edited by ChildOfWinds, Oct 29, 2013
  2. Darth Archimage Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2013
    star 2
    To show that the force can be used by those without linage and/or midichlorians?

    EDIT: I'm not against Luke having kids, I would just like to see that the Force can be out their for anyone.
    Last edited by Darth Archimage, Oct 29, 2013
  3. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 4
    I've always really liked this idea (i.e., the Jedi runt). And I dig the idea of orphan Jedi; I'm just unsure of how that would feel as a third act. It might be perfect for a solo movie (not Solo).

    My own personal spin is that Luke's son is powerful, but chooses to be a pacifist. Han and Leia's daughter is just as powerful (or maybe less...) but she's hyperaggressive. Luke encourages them both to find balance, but then he dies at some point in 7, and we see the new gen try to find the balance that he'd achieved in 8 and 9.
  4. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Why couldn't Luke have a biological child and one adopted? One doesn't exclude the other and like I said before I'd like to see Luke in marriage and having children.

    An adopted child would be interesting because it might fight different inner demons than a Skywalker or Solo. It could be the one protagonist with a dark and troubled past, someone who feels like he/she doesn't belong and has to prove it to him/herself.

    This kind of background isn't possible with a child of Skywalker or Solo, because Abrams and co. will never make them look like bad parents.
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  5. Immortiss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 4
    I'm not totally against the idea of Luke having his own child and I'm trying to keep an open mind. That said an adopted child makes sense in that it challenges our assumptions about what we think we know. I like it just for that reason.

    I completely agree that it's a family saga and I think I would be disappointed if the next protagonist hero isn't a Skywalker. How this could be is a good question. Especially if Luke decides to adhere to the Old Jedi Order rule on attachments. However, there are other considerations, too. Perhaps Luke is still personally and publicly coping with his identity as the Son of the Chosen One, who happened to be Darth Vader, the Heinrich Himmler of the Empire. Perhaps the weight of that knowledge is too much to bare when considering a relationship with another and the possibility of bringing a child into a GFFA that was terrorized by the Skywalker Patriarch. So there are a number of reasons Luke may decide against raising a biological family. He can pass on what he has learned to Leia and her children, who may go by the Solo name, if we find out that Han and Leia in fact have children. Another assumption we tend to make as fans.

    One of my bigger questions at the moment, as you may know, is 'Who are the Skywalkers?' An orphan character immediately presents a lack of identity. The Skywalkers also present an identity issue, too. We know Anakin and his mother were slaves. We know nothing of their backstory. A convenient and interesting area for a storyteller to explore. For instance, the Skywalkers may be any number of humans based on a variety of planets and peoples; Mando'a, Corellian, or Onderonian. It's quite possible as slaves the Skywalkers passed through the Zygerrian Slavers Guild. We know Anakin was born of the Force (shout out @Toonimater), but Shmi must be related to others, presuming she has parents, right? It's a huge GFFA and it is quite possible other Skywalkers (the side of the family without the Force potential) are grappling with the events of the fall of the Republic, the Rise of the Empire, its struggle with the Rebel Alliance and the subsequent events occuring after ROTJ.

    I was listening to 'Rebels Report' thanks to @Circular Logic and one of the writers of TCW suggested that REBELS and other SW's related projects will orbit around Epidode VII like it is the Sun. Although unconfirmed, there are rumors of two new characters in REBELS named Kanen and Ezra. It makes me wonder if any of the new characters in REBELS will be Skywalkers or cousins of our heroes. For anyone feeling that an Orphan Skywalker is a character from out of the blue, a backstory in REBELS might provide some groundwork. Although I like the out of the blue surprise, the idea of a long-lost Skywalker orphan may need a little help from another source like REBELS. In the early drafts of The Star Wars there was a character named Kane Skywalker. Coincidence? Probably. Speculative fodder? Most certainly and thanks for indulging me, if you've read this far.:)
  6. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 4
    I think you raise a ton of interesting possibilities here. And we could have an orphan character, but also a Skywalker offspring and the discovery of Skywalker relatives. I'm not sure that would be too much for a trilogy of films, but maybe. If the orphan were related to the the antagonist side of the action, or was a kind of plot device (maguffin), then the Skywalker aspect would fit fine on the protag side.That's just one example.

    But before picking characters like this, in my own writing at least, I try to think of the needs of the story. What would be the natural needs of the story in the ST? Well, one obvious need is to explore what the new Jedi Order is like; whether it is any different or not from the PT. If you think showing a difference here is important, then you want to pick characters that will help show that difference clearly. An orphan could make sense here because then we see how differently they're treated than Anakin was. But you don't necessarily need an orphan to do this: you could show this difference in any number of characters. An orphan "type" would create some resonance with the previous trilogies though, which might be work, or might feel overdone. I do like the idea of an orphan more rough around the edges than Anakin was, but who goes in an opposite direction because of the better environment they're in. This character, if a non-Skywalker, might fit very nicely along the side of the Sky-Solos.

    I also think you make a great point about Luke not wanting to produce offspring because of Vader's actions. I buy that anxiety on his part, but others might not, since he seemed to have conquered his fears in Jedi. However, I think Leia and the Sky-Solo children are the ones that would be having some identity issues when it comes to the Vader history. To me, this has always been the most logical way to explore what the next generation of Jedi would or should be like.

    After writing all this, I'm not seeing a strong organic reason to bring in unknown Skywalkers from Shmi's side. It would be interesting to explore in the EU or Rebels. That doesn't mean there isn't a good reason to do it, but it seems like you could accomplish most of the same story goals with Leia or Luke's kids. Or even an orphan.
    Last edited by Dra---, Nov 23, 2013
  7. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    With the PT, the Jedi have lost their coolness in the eyes of many. Will the ST try to "outcool" the Jedi?
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  8. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 4
    I hope so.
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  9. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I just caught up on a couple of months of this thread.

    @Dra--- : You are absolutely right as far as "no attachments" not being the same as "celibacy". I think the only reason we conflate the two is that society, at least in the US, pushed the idea that sex outside a committee relationship is "bad" or "immoral". The idea made some sense in the days before reliable birth control but now, not so much, and despite Anakin and Padme, I believe there was reliable birth control in the GFFA.

    And while teenagers' raging hormones may lead them to believe that arousal and love are the same, adults certainly can and should learn the difference. I personally think conflating sex and love gets people in trouble more often than not--of course a person can be sexually attracted to someone and love him or her at the same time, but the feelings are still very different and separate.

    I am reminded at this point of a post someone made in the PT forum on the IGN boards:

    "No, she's not 'in your soul', Anakin. What you are experiencing is called a boner."

    As far as Luke having a biological child, the only reason I care one way or another is that I want the romance in the ST kept to a bare minimum, as in Han and Leia only and no more prevalent than it was in the OT.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Dec 15, 2013
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  10. Immortiss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 4
    I'm wondering if Luke is attempting to 'pass on what he has learned', but for some reason is having difficulty rebuilding the New Jedi Order. Just a thought.
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  11. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Well, let me be frank. I want at least one actual child for Luke. No matter for what reason a part of me will be insanely disappointed if this doesn't happen... though as a fan of Star Wars and not just the idea of a kid for Luke I will get over it if it doesn't happen. I blame the EU for corrupting my thoughts here... :p

    Ok, now that my own desire is out of the way, let me ignore it from here on out... ;)

    We know Lucas originally planned Luke's sister to have not been Leia and have been hidden on the other side of the galaxy. Luke was to find her and train her offspring in the ways of the force... so how can we accomplish this now that Leia is Luke's sister. @Immortiss raised a good point with the Rebels rumor... Anakin having lost cousins out there. Sure they're not children of the choosen one but any child of Luke or Leia can become the supporting charsacter if that blood lineage is needed. However maybe its not needed... After all if the Pleaguis novel will at least be the ground work for the explaning of Anakin's birth then Pleaguis didn't realize his actions would result in a birth, however why then did the force choose Shmi of all the beings in the universe to impregnate? Could the Skywalker lineage already have had a growing connection to the force and be benifically outside both the Jedi and Sith sects... therefore important to bringing balance of the force.

    I'll admit this idea does interest me of Skywalkers of a more distant relationship. That said I hope they set it up well if they do it, since I'm not sure movie only fans will respect Star Wars Rebels, a kids show, characters (and logically their kids) becoming bigger characters than Luke, Leia+Han and their kids and Han and Leia having kids is an all but foregone conclussion to many fans after RotJ's ending. Plus it'd be kinda boring if we find out a character on Rebels now gets a plot shield only a season or two into the show since an unborn kid of theirs must now be concieved/born first before that character can die since that kid (or their kid) will be in episode VII. Well, as I said, if they do it they must set it up right... it has potential to be interesting though.
    Last edited by Ryus, Dec 15, 2013
  12. Jetedonne Pur-Pureus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2013
    star 4
    Just curious, did George Lucas never confirm nor deny fan speculation that Leia might not have been the "other" hope yoda referred to on Dagobah? I've never heard him talk about that...
  13. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Didn't Ben Kenobi tell Luke in RotJ that the "other" that Yoda spoke of was Luke's sister and that Leia was that sister?
  14. Darth Punk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2013
    star 4
    I think the new Jedi order will be like x factor. The OT sit on a panel, and hopefuls queue around the block to try out. E7 will be the bit where we laugh at all the deluded muppets looking for three yeses.
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  15. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    With The Force being balanxes at the end of ROTJ, I wonder if the next step is to unbalance The Force in favor of the light side. Perhaps then the prophecy will be completely fulfilled.
  16. Darth Punk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2013
    star 4
    The idea of balance of the Force, a central tenet of the Jedi Order, referred to the ideal state in which the Force existed in nature, namely as the light side.

    I can't find anything on how long it stays in balance for after the prophecy is fulfilled. Maybe it's like reinstalling Windows- first it's all sweet, then stuff gets corrupted again.
  17. Jetedonne Pur-Pureus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2013
    star 4
    Didn't realize that, thanks. I'm always reading on these forums of the possibility that Yoda's message was left open-ended, and that the sequel trilogy might open new doors by bringing another sibling into the Skywalker family, so I was just wondering as to if there was a strong case to support that theory, or not.
  18. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    I wouldn't be surprised if something similar to The Ones appears in order to recreate the impact that Jedi once had.
  19. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    Might Luke be reluctant to train Jedi in fear that that they will turn to the dark side?
  20. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 4
    That would be surprising (in a bad way) since Luke seems to have conquered his fears at the end of ROTJ.
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  21. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    I want Luke to have a kid and be the protagonist so the bad guy can yell "Skywalkerrrrrr!!" which is kind of a thing in these movies.
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  22. JDN21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2004
    star 2
    I didn't like the Jedi order in the prequels. They lost the mystique that Ben Kenobi speculated on during the OT.

    I loved the idea that anyone could become a Jedi, it's just that some are naturally more predisposed towards having a talent and affinity with the force, those being the ones capable of becoming Jedi Knights. Luke had no knowledge of the force, but with an open mind and some guidance from Ben, he was able to use the force rather quickly. The way Ben spoke about Anakin Skywalker was interesting - he was a talented pilot - I visualised him being a pilot first and foremost, but being a very capable Jedi as well, not some (supposedly) devout monk that was restricted by the artificial rules of a monastic order and measured by blood counts!

    It would be great if the sequel trilogy had a more relaxed view of the Jedi, in line with post-old republic views of the Jedi - as individual warriors/teachers.
  23. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I wish Ben had gotten to train more than one student in the PT- in line with the ANH novelization:

    "a very young Jedi named Darth Vader" - "A boy I was training. One of my brightest disciples ... one of my greatest failures."
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  24. Immortiss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 4
    Who has time for disciples during war, right? Yoda sort of took over there, didn't he. It seems as though Yoda trained all the young Padawans and when they reached a certain age each Padawan received a personal trainer. :p But all passed through Master Yoda first. Perhaps this is why we see his reluctance to continue Luke's training in 'Empire'. He wasn't comfortable with the role reversal between he and Ben.
  25. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I wish Anakin had a mission during the war where he had the codename Vader.
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