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Discussion Luke Skywalker's New (or Old) Jedi Order?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Dra---, Aug 19, 2013.

  1. sluggo1313. Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4

    I agree but only if they make Corran Horn way less Gary-Sueish then he is int he books.


    Considering Luke is most likely going to get Guidence from Obi-wan and Yoda I doubt the Jedi would take such a drastic turn in direction from what they were in the PT era. Also, wandering Jedi, following the Will of the Forcea s they see it would cause a MASSIVE in universe problem.

    Committing acts of violence is part of being a Jedi. If it wasn't they wouldn't carry lightsabers or leave their temples.
  2. Dra--- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 5
    Doubt it not. Luke will probably have a child and even be married. Leia too. Those are already huge differences from the PT Jedi. And Luke has received guidance from Kenobi and Yoda before only to decide against it and do things his own way. I think Luke will look back on the old Order and deem it too rigid, as many fans did.


    If you're referring to EU, that's not a problem for me. We have to wait and see how much if any of the Post-ROTJ EU the Story Group decides to keep. If they want to do something for the ST, I doubt they'll let the EU stop them.

    Yes, I agree absolutely. I've never argued they shouldn't use lightsabers or engage in violence. I have argued that they shouldn't be part of a Republic military force. Are they Jedi or are they Republic soldiers? I want the former.
    Last edited by Dra---, Jan 29, 2014
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  3. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 8
    Which solidifies the entire point of Qui Gon's "I can only protect you. I can't fight a war for you".
  4. Grilled Hutt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2003
    star 3
    "politics aren't only long-winded speeches, they are also the choices we make throughout our day and life. Luke, Han, and Leia's fight against the Empire was political action. They weren't doing it just to fight, but for a political goal: to restore democracy. The representation of this political struggle was not boring."

    I dont agree with that only in the sense thats not how it started for them until Han helped luke at the death star and TESB, Han was just paid for transportation and got sucked into a small moon. Luke just wanted to rescue the princess-he wanted to be a jedi like his father...he was looking for adventure. He was in way over his head - it was just supposed to be a trip to alderaan until the death star. Chewie is loyal and the droids are servants. I dont consider them acting polictically but their actions definetly helped the bigger picture - the rebels vs the empire. The opening crawl mentioned a conflict and subtle references to before the dark times - luke/biggs joining empire/rebellion. I feel they kept the polictical stuff to a need to know and no fluff...The PT on the other hand - from the opening crawl to trade embargoes too long winded chamber discussions was overkill. The OT could just mention the senate in passing and we know its a governing body, they could have easily said a reference to policitcal turmoil in the opening crawl and that would be the only mention- we dont need to see all this on screen, we all know what BS govts are to begin with real life and dont need all the detail the PT shoved into everyones face. ROTS just should have been the first film and going on a rampage and destroy the tenets of society and what two sith lords would have done would have been far better....but no...it had to be complicated. But i totally agree the OT polictical representaion was not boring because they did it right and tightly. The PT did not.

    f. that. i want OT New Hope style innocence. Raiders of the Lost Ark meets Tomb Raider meets James Bond Meets Jurassic Park meets Empire strikes back meets Predator meets my Favorite Martian ACTION. I want a good time not more polictical bs.
  5. purplerain Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    I wonder where Luke's Jedi Order (if there even is an "order") will be headquartered. Courscant again? Yavin? Ruusan? Tython?
    Dra--- likes this.
  6. Dra--- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 5
    Where it's headquartered will probably tell us a lot about how different the Order is.

    Then again, @rezpen has heard a rumor that we will begin with no Order at all.

    As for politics, Leia was a Rebel from the beginning and Luke had joined by the end of ANH. Han had become a member of the Rebellion by ESB (Hoth), and certainly by ROTJ. These were political choices. In fact, that we see Han and Luke join the Rebellion over the course of the OT emphasizes their political activism. They decide to choose a side and fight for a cause.

    People that think politics are only Senate monologues are way off base. ANH had Leia sneaking Death Star plans to R2. AOTC had a political assassination attempt on Padme. And even TPM had the Trade Federation trying to force Padme to sign a treaty. Those are all instances where political struggle is represented in a style and form distinct from speech.
    Last edited by Dra---, Jan 29, 2014
  7. Darth_Pevra Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 6
    The death star plans plot isn't politics, not even in the widest sense of the word. Intercepting plans of an enemy weapon and taking them to a military force is a typical military intelligence action.

    On a wild planet. I hope.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Jan 29, 2014
  8. Dra--- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 5
    Oh, Leia wasn't a Rebel is what you're saying? I don't think anyone will agree with that. Leia was on a mercy mission if you recall, and she was pretending to be doing that when she was really acting like a spy and stealing plans. Remember Vader calls her a traitor? That's a political concept aligned with specific types of actions.

    Spying and stealing plans, even by the military, is the essence of political struggle. Politics isn't something that happens only in a Senate; it is also activism and action.

    Destroying the Death Star was a political act. The forces fighting one another aren't fighting for no reason, but due to political differences. War is political.
    Last edited by Dra---, Jan 29, 2014
  9. sluggo1313. Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4

    A lot of people assume Luke will ahve a kid, that still remains to be seen. And who says Leia will be a Jedi? Also just because Luke does something doesn't mean it will be the norm, and just because he does his own thing in one area doesn' tmean he will in all areas. Or that his take on the PT Jedi would match up wth yours.

    I'm not talking EU. I'm talking about people in the Star wars universe having a problem with a group of people basically wondering around dishing what they deem to be justice. Just look at Earth (1 planet, never mind thousands) and how many cultures we have, the different values and perspectives across those different cultures. A group of people wondering around just doing what THEY deemed right and just wouldn't go over that well.

    Does Obi-wan say they are the guardians of Peace and Justice in the Old Republic? If that peace and justice is being threatened why wouldn't they fight it? Isn't the best to guard peace and justice to aid a government who's aims/goals are the same as yours?
  10. Darth_Pevra Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 6
    She was using the senator-role as a disguise, but she was still the active military commander. She was even surrounded by soldiers.

    I disagree that destroying the death star was a political act. It was an act of war, a military operation and not just activism (and like every war there were politics behind it, which still doesn't turn a military operation into "politics"). And Leia is also a military leader. As soon as she engaged the imperials, she shed her role as senator. It never became relevant again in the entire OT.

    The fact that Leia was both senator and military commander of rebels doesn't turn the events on the tantive IV into a "political story".
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Jan 30, 2014
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  11. Darth_Pevra Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 6
    Oh, and here from the oxford dictionary:

    politics

    Line breaks: pol¦it|ics
    Pronunciation: /ˈpɒlɪtɪks

    /
    noun

    • 1 [usually treated as singular] the activities associated with the governance of a country or area, especially the debate between parties having power: the party quickly gained influence in French politics thereafter he dropped out of active politics
      More example sentencesSynonyms
    • 1.1the activities of governments concerning the political relations between states: in the conduct of global politics, economic status must be backed by military capacity
      More example sentences
    • 1.2the academic study of government and the state: [as modifier]: a politics lecturer
      More example sentencesSynonyms
    • 1.3a particular set of political beliefs or principles: people do not buy their paper purely for its politics
      More example sentencesSynonyms
    • 1.4 (often the politics of) the principles relating to or inherent in a sphere or activity, especially when concerned with power and status: the politics of gender
      More example sentencesSynonyms
    2) activities aimed at improving someone’s status or increasing power within an organization: yet another discussion of office politics and personalities

    No mention of "spying for secret superweapon plans" or "blowing up things".
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Jan 30, 2014
  12. fishtailsam Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    actually I would say that the activities mentioned in
    "the activities of governments concerning the political relations between states"
    would include spying and blowing things up
  13. Darth_Pevra Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 6
    The rebel alliance is no government or state. There was also no change of the political relations of rebels and Empire. They went from being enemies ... to being enemies. How unsurprising.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Jan 30, 2014
  14. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 8
  15. fishtailsam Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    I agree with you there, but I would bet that not all the rebels would.
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  16. Darth_Pevra Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 6
    No matter what they rebels thought of themselves, at that point they were nothing more than an insurrection. And political relations between rebels and Empire didn't exist. That kinda happens when one party wants to utterly annihilate (laserblast!) the other.
  17. purplerain Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    I wonder if Yoda's journey in the TCW bonus content will affect the ST Jedi.
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  18. Irate Bounty Hunter Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Or what if Luke adopts a child with a darker heritage, whose parents were Sith or Imperials or some other bad guys. This could introduce a nature vs nurture debate. It would create an interesting parallel with Ben, who chose to raise the son of the man who destroyed the entire Jedi order.

    In fact, taking it a step further, what if after ROTJ Luke finds a clone somewhere. A clone like Boba Fett, who actually experiences a childhood and a normal human lifespan? And this young clone is a replica of none other than the Emperor himself. But instead of killing him, Luke raises the child on his own, having faith that the teachings of the Jedi will allow the child to overcome any biological imperative that might compel him to join the dark side.
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  19. Dra--- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 5
    I think it will.

    Show Spoiler
    Since his mission is to make sure the Jedi Order survives Sidious and Vader, it will be his responsibility to make sure Luke is rebuilding things by the time of the ST. The Priestesses say his immortality is a reward for this.

    But I also think it's possible the Sith or the villains may learn why the Jedi Order survived annihilation and seek to destroy the link between the Ghosts and the Order. This, by the way, is something that @Immortiss has been speculating about for months. Props to him!

    And we have the larger issue of what kind of Order does Luke create? Is it one the Priestesses and Ghosts support or not?


    Again, I'm interested to see how the issue of marriage may play out in relation to the new Order.
    Last edited by Dra---, Mar 11, 2014
  20. thejeditraitor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 6
    i think considering the history of the sw universe that perhaps the new temple or jedi headquarters should be hidden. new jedi are taught in seclusion somewhere and are strictly forbidden from naming the location.
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  21. DanielUK Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 5
    I suspect the Jedi Order will be more secretive and similar to a secret society; I doubt they will be guardians of a New Republic because that lead to the old Order's demise. Heck, there might even be a Jedi Order in the ST - its creation might not appear to the final moments of Episode IX. But I don't want a repeat of the Jedi Order from the PT, that would be a mistake.
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  22. Da'wid Yott Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2014
    star 1
    @Daniel UK
    I agree with you and it would only make sense that it would not be the same as the PT Jedi Order. Luke be came a Jedi, "like my father," but even he knew strict adherence to the old ways was not always right. E.g., [Master] Yoda saying Luke was too old to begin the training. This was true in that training normally started at 4-6? - then become a Padawan Learner at 12-14? (may be off on ages) - but point being, Luke was "way too old." But in fact, Luke inherent abilities allowed him to be a successful Jedi. So I imagine, the New Jedi Order will be different based on Luke's philosophy as well as a lot of "the old ways" being destroyed.
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  23. Immortiss Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 4
    I was thinking about the bolded text just this past weekend. How would the Sith learn the Jedi have a connection to their Force Ghost ancestors? Would it be the immortal nature of a transformed or new Sith or will one close to the Skywalker family betray (unwittingly or not) them. I think @Dra--- posed the possibility of the unpredictability and vulnerability of youth. It may be an instance of loose lips, jealousy, angst or selfishness. I keep going back to 'Edmund' in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. Will a Skywalker eat the Turkish Delight? Is Luke, Aslan? There are certain possible echoes that may inform the ST.

    Edit: Oh, and thanks for the credit, Dra---
    Last edited by Immortiss, Mar 12, 2014
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  24. sluggo1313. Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4

    Except were did Luke get and learn his philosophy? From the old, PT era Jedi.
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  25. Da'wid Yott Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2014
    star 1
    @sluggo

    Absolutely he did, but like any "new generation," things evolve; e.g., Dust-bowl era's children, the Baby-boomers were a bit different, their children, Generation X'ers were different, theirs, the Generation Y, etc, etc... It is only my opinion that Luke will want to continue the Jedi Order, but it will be the "New Order," and a bit different. Again, just like Bruce Lee honored Wing Chun, he took what he was taught and mastered, and evolved. Again, just my opinion..
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