main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

  2. Enter the Episode IX Treatment Contest! Details here!

  3. A Rule For Everyone To See:

    The New Films staff strive to create a fun and welcoming environment for all users. This forum is a place for discussing the films, which means that you think the films are worth discussing. Constructive criticism (as deemed by the moderating staff) is welcome and encouraged. Bashing of any kind will not be tolerated anywhere outside The Sanctuary thread. See the new rules thread here. Bans can and will be handed out to anyone who doesn't abide by the forum rules.

TFA Luke Skywalker's New (or Old) Jedi Order?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by Dra---, Aug 19, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. sluggo1313.

    sluggo1313. Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2013

    But, but Jeet Kune Do doesn't change how you fight to extreme levels like "how your hands at your hips instead of in front of your face". Basics like that remained because they work. So training people starting in childhood and not allowing attachments.......WORKED for thousands of years (and if Anakin is your case study.......its not a good argument for changing those rules), so who would Luke completely re-think some/so many fundemental elements of the Jedi?
     
    Dra--- likes this.
  2. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    While I wouldn't advocate that everything about the Old Jedi Order be washed away when Luke creates the New Jedi Order I am beginning to think that maybe the Old Order's strict rules on emotions and attachments and things of that matter stem from a reactionary measure the Jedi of the era put in place to counter the rise of the Sith. Say the Old Old Jedi Order had a much different philosophy but then as they say one bad apple can spoil the bunch and when a Jedi falls to the dark side and creates the Sith Order the Jedi of the time react by creating a new philosophy that promotes purging one's emotions. A likely overreaction. This philosophy is then passed down through the next millennia even after the Sith are destroyed and it results in the Jedi Order we see in the PT. Look at Yoda in the TCW arc when he's confronted by the dark side illusion of himself. He simply refuses to admit it's real at first and it's only until after he confronts the dark side in himself and accepts that it's a part of him but has no power over him that he passes the trial. The same happens with Luke in ROTJ. He has to confront his dark side emotions and overcome them to win the day. So I could see this as the philosophy Luke's Jedi Order abide by. Instead of attempting to purge these negatives feelings accept that your bad emotions are real, confront them and do not let them overcome you.
     
  3. Victorian Time Traveler

    Victorian Time Traveler Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Moraband
     
    Dra--- likes this.
  4. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Malleus Maleficarum star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Tosche Station. We will discover that it was never what we thought it was. It really is a place where one learns to convert their powers.
     
  5. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Wait...you're suggesting that Luke knew he was a Jedi since the beginning?! That he is a Time Lord?! Inconceivable!
     
  6. rezpen

    rezpen Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 4, 2010
    Heard Kyle Newman on RFR this week saying of course the Jedi order wasn't rebuilt because Luke rejected Yoda and Obi Wan's telling him to kill Vader. I got the feeling hearing him talk about it he might have heard some of what I have, I'm sure he def has better sources :)
     
    Dra--- likes this.
  7. sluggo1313.

    sluggo1313. Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2013

    First, why the hell are you listening to RFR, did Jimmy Mac leave the show thus making it good?

    Second, who cares what Kyle Newman has to say?
     
  8. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
  9. rezpen

    rezpen Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 4, 2010
    Somebody got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
     
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  10. sluggo1313.

    sluggo1313. Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2013

    Not at all

    Jimmy Mac is a tool who is neither entertaining or knowledgeable, RFR won't be worth listening too until has 100% less Jimmy Mac.

    And really who cares what Kyle Newman has to say about Star Wars?
     
  11. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    OK, calm down.
     
    T-R-, Dra--- and Darth Chiznuk like this.
  12. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Why do people get so angry about these people mentioned?
     
    T-R-, Dra--- and Darth Chiznuk like this.
  13. sluggo1313.

    sluggo1313. Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2013
    Why do people assume I'm angry?
     
  14. Da'wid Yott

    Da'wid Yott Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2014
    ...lol....you just state your opinions in a matter of fact fashion....guess folks take it as being curt or angry?
     
  15. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2002
    I'm hoping for an non-existent order. I mean, if there's no Sith threat, why have one? Especially since they started all the problems in the first place. When and if the Sith do re-emerge, then I say it makes sense for the New Republic to call for Luke Skywalker form a new one. But it makes sense if one doesn't exist prior to the events of the ST, though.
     
    Dra--- likes this.
  16. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 14, 2013
    The reason that there was a Jedi Order for 1000 years before TPM.
     
    Dra--- and Force Smuggler like this.
  17. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Great post! I agree 100% with the idea that the Jedi would be better served by dealing with one's darkside more directly and assertively than just trying to repress it absolutely and deny it even exists.

    My own idea for Luke's Order would be that they are allowed open romantic attachments, but perhaps not marriage. The problem comes down to who does the Jedi owe ultimate allegiance to? The spouse or the Order? As we saw with Anakin, having allegiance to someone other than the Order (self or spouse) can lead to selfish decisions -- or at least decisions that aren't in the interest of the Order (I'm not sure if that is always bad though).

    There's probably not a perfect solution (although maybe Chiznuk's is the best), but maybe allowing attachments to exist in the open -- even lifetime attachments -- but disallowing marriage would be a compromise that works for the Order and the individual Jedi. That way the Jedi can experience a full emotional relationship with another being while also accepting a higher allegiance to the Order. What you do about kids, however, I have no idea. For some Jedi, that would be a necessary part of their emotional experience. But once you open the door to Force families, it seems like you're creating more possibilities for power struggles and disagreement.

    Good luck, Luke, you're going to need it!

    rezpen:

    True or not, I think it's a fascinating idea that Luke didn't rebuild the Order because he became a total pacifist. I've pointed out before that the Jedi are not a pure lightside Order because of their militancy and willingness to commit violence. This doesn't make them bad, but it does open them to the criticism of pacifist Force users. How interesting if that's what became of Luke!
     
  18. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    You think that the events on DS II were so shocking for Luke that he renounced violence altogether? That would make for interesting character development, but I wonder how well it would fit into a violent story like Star Wars. Luke shouldn't come off as a fool for making the choice.
     
  19. Mystery Roach

    Mystery Roach Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Throwing down his lightsaber could very well have been a life-defining decision for Luke in terms of a move toward pacifism, however it also may be significant that he decided to pick it up again instead of leaving it on the DSII.
     
  20. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Yeah, that is a danger. You wouldn't want him to come off like Satine in TCW. One way that might work is if Luke does fight defensively as Qui-Gon talks about in TPM, or tries never to kill. Or it could be as simple as not restarting the Order. IDK, but it is an interesting idea.

    It would be very easy for it to work as you say though. Luke ends up looking like his pacifism allows the galaxy to fall back into chaos.

    What would you do to make it work Pevra?

    Darth_Pevra

    EDIT: I don't think Luke needs to be "shocked" into pacifism. It seemed to have worked better than violence.
     
  21. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    it would be interesting if luke had spent years in seclusion, very rarely seeing anyone, so he could commune with the force. communicating with yoda, obi, etc, so he could be ready for whatever new threat would surely come. perhaps having leia or others send force sensitives to him like he was sent to yoda.
     
    Iron_lord and Dra--- like this.
  22. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Would he be doing this on Dagobah since it has a powerful force presence?
     
    purplerain likes this.
  23. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    He's too big* to live in that hut.
     
  24. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    And Yoda was too smaller?
     
  25. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    *edited*

    ...I really should pay attention more
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.