Discussion Luke Skywalker's New (or Old) Jedi Order?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by Dra---, Aug 19, 2013.

  1. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

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    Perhaps in Luke's Jedi Order a Jedi doesn't necessarily have to dedicate their entire life to the order. Say if a Jedi falls in love or simply wants to retire then he/she can lay down their saber and they're free to live their life the way they see fit. That way they have no conflicting loyalties while they are a part of the order but also they aren't ostracized if they decide to step away. Perhaps this is the way Leia chose. She was trained to be a Jedi but instead of following that path like her brother she laid down her saber to be with Han and have a family.
    Last edited by Darth Chiznuk, Mar 13, 2014
  2. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

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    We don't even know Lucas wanted Luke to establish a new order so soon after the war. Who knows, maybe the war lasted long than Endor, anyway. That could mean Luke might've waited until now to search for any Force Borns. Minus the kids, there might not have been any to find.
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  3. purplerain Force Ghost

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    I'd love it if Luke's Jedi Order doesn't train from birth.
  4. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

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    Yeah, that could be another thing that distinguishes Luke's Jedi Order from the previous one. Waiting until the candidate can make the decision for him/herself.
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  5. plaidphoenix Force Ghost

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    But therein lies the question. How old does someone have to be to be able to make the decision for him/herself?
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  6. purplerain Force Ghost

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    18
    Last edited by purplerain, Mar 13, 2014
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  7. Dra--- Chosen One

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    That's something that confuses me about the PT Jedi. Maybe someone who has read recent EU can explain if the PT Jedi were allowed to leave the Order and get married? Or did the Jedi forbid Jedi from leaving? Although I thought Dooku left the Order before he was considered an enemy. @Circular Logic?

    Yep. That has always been the creepiest aspect of the PT Jedi.

    But maybe there was a good reason for it at some point? For example, maybe the Sith or some other group would detect and kidnap Force sensitive infants? If so, the Jedi might just be protecting the children.

    They should ask the parents for permission though, after warning them of the dangers.
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  8. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

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    There certainly wasn't any rule that forbade a Jedi from leaving the Order. In fact, a number of Padawans did leave the Order from time to time (like Aurra Sing, although that wasn't her own volition, and most notably Ahsoka Tano), although most that could not become Knights were reassigned to the Service Corps. The thing is, with Jedi being taken to the Temple to be raised by the Jedi at such a young age, the inevitable outcome is that these children would become indoctrinated to the Jedi ways, and as they age it would become increasingly more and more difficult to reject the only home, the only family, one has ever known and leave the Order voluntarily. There is a reason why there were only twenty Jedi Masters throughout the entire history of the Order to have voluntarily left. I can't think of an instance off the top of my head where a Jedi would leave the Order to marry someone; I know that once he'd found a way to save Padme from dying, Anakin strongly contemplated leaving the Order after the birth of his children, according to the RotS novelization.

    Also, to reinforce what @Darth Chiznuk said earlier regarding a flaw of the old Jedi Order; I think you should check out this illuminating article form the wonderful SW commentary site, Eleven-ThirtyEight.com. It contains some quotes that you might find interesting regarding the PT Jedi:
    On the topic of Force-sensitive children. There were other less-than-glowing aspects of the old Jedi Order as well; while they didn't force a parent to give up a Force-sensitive infant, they would often compel others to do so. In the Bardotta episodes of TCW's "The Lost Missions", the Bardottans despise the Jedi because in the past, the Order had culled Force-sensitive infants from their numbers, due to the natural Force-sensitivity of their race. If an employee of the Jedi Order produced a Force-sensitive child, they would have to surrender the child and get kicked out of service to the Order, in order to "prevent attachments" from forming between the child and his or her parent(s). This happened to Lorn Pavan and his son Jax, and Lorn never forgave the Order for that.
    Last edited by Circular Logic, Mar 13, 2014
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  9. Dra--- Chosen One

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    Great stuff, @Circular Logic. Very insightful. It backs up my view that the Jedi can no longer serve the Republic, but the Force. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have some involvement with the Republic, but never again should they serve the Republic.

    If you serve a good Republic, you're fine. But when it goes bad, you end up serving the bad. The PT Jedi were a very ironic Order -- they were rigid when it came to the darkside (Sith) while they themselves grew dark from the inside.

    The final seasons of TCW brilliantly shows us how the Jedi become part of the problem, and how fighting the wars corrupt them.

    This makes me return to the thought of Luke's pacifism at the end of ROTJ. He seems to realize that only love will defeat the Sith.

    Which raises a big question -- if there are wars that must be fought in the ST, how will the Jedi remain incorruptible?
  10. plaidphoenix Force Ghost

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    One option would be to bring the parents with them, either to just relocate or give them non-Jedi jobs in, on or around the Temple.
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  11. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

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    It's implied at least twice in the PT that a Jedi can be expelled, so obviously they aren't opposed to Jedi leaving the order. Anakin could have simply left and then married Padme. The problem was that he wanted both.

    The reason for training only from birth is the same as the reason for no romantic relationships: To minimize emotional attachments. I'm guessing the Jedi discouraged Anakin from trying to ever meet up with his mother again, seeing as nobody bothered to try and free her or simply buy her in the ten years he was a Padawan. Qui-Gon seemed to be the only one who cared, and he was the one most unlike the council members.
  12. darklordoftech Chosen One

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    I noticed some interesting TPM concept art:
    [IMG]

    I'd love to see this Jedi uniform.
  13. Dra--- Chosen One

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    Yeah, I dig the space samurai look. :cool:

    No more brown robes please.
  14. Revanfan1 Chosen One

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    [IMG]
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  15. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

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    Wasn't this an option in the PT era? Obi-wan told Anakin he'd be expelled fromt he Jedi order, not that he'd be executed or anything.

    Why? It does seem to me that changing and accepting people who already have close releationships with people, who have emotional damage and baggage is just asking for trouble.


    I just really dislike Jimmy Mac, and its annoys me that one of the biggest Star Wars podcasts is ruined by him. As for Kyle Newman, it seemed like his opinion was being presented as a........argument for something. I'm just pointing out that he isn't someone who is in a position to affect the movies, so who cares what his opinion is

    Thats actually not a bad argument. I could see some people taking the "why do we want/need a Jedi order" in the ST era.
  16. dolphin Chosen One

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    Haha
  17. darklordoftech Chosen One

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    I wonder if the ST will have Je'daii.
  18. bigtukker Jedi Grand Master

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    • Have a Jedi Temple on Coruscant or another Core world and build smaller Jedi Temples on worlds like Tython, Dantooine, Yavin, Tatooine, Hoth. It could also become sort of a rite for Jedi Padawans to visit each of them, just like in Dawn of the Jedi books.
    • The Jedi Code should be altered, or at least the "there is no emotion" part. Emotion should be controlled, not ignored. This also allows attachment, but control is key here.
    • I think Jedi Robes should be remained, maybe updated, just to create unity between the order. Jedi Robes shouldn't be enforced though (for example Aayla and Ahsoka)
    • Same lightsaber colors, one purple lightsaber, the rest green, blue and maybe yellow.
  19. DarkGingerJedi Jedi Grand Master

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    [/quote]


    That's actually a really interesting motif. A big part of 'evil' in the Star Wars Galaxy is losing your humanity and becoming a machine - or essentially lifeless.

    In the PT we have 4 armies / sects:
    1. The Jedi - Living beings, but ones who adhered to a philosophy which controlled their 'humanity'. The Order, the dogma, the bureaucracy, the rules against attachments, they essentially willingly turned off parts of their individuality.

    2. The Clones - Bio-engineered machines made to look like humans. Created in a factory, but grown and developed rapidly. They had some individuality and a sense of humanity, but in the end followed the orders and programming they were given.

    3: The Droid Army - All machine. Lifeless beings. Built in a factory. Programmed with a fake personality. No individuality. (This doesn't include R2 and 3PO who have proven themselves to be quite selfless, have individuality and personality)

    4: Sith - Completely lifeless beings. They feed on the dark side and use technology to keep themselves alive much longer than what's natural for completely selfish reasons. Darth Vader killed off his humanity to exist.
  20. purplerain Force Ghost

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    I wonder if there will be a Jedi Temple/Headquarters or if we'll see a nomadic Jedi Order.
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  21. plaidphoenix Force Ghost

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    They'll roam the galaxy in a Space Winnebago.
  22. EHT New Films Manager

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  23. Jedsithor Force Ghost

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    No Jedi Order. Once a Jedi is trained, they must find their own path. The old Jedi Order doomed itself as much as Palpatine doomed it by being too centralised and too dogmatic. If you listen to Palpatine in ROTS, yes he's evil but when he's talking about the Jedi, there is truth in his words. A twisted truth, but truth nonetheless. A central organisation is the last thing Luke's Jedi need, especially those who survived the purge. Better to train a Jedi and the send them out into the galaxy with the Force as their guide. Some might travel the universe, helping people or philosophising on the Force, others may spend their days meditating in caves or even pursue military careers but there would be no hierarchy. Perhaps there would be some kind of provision for the Jedi to gather and meet every few years to share their knowledge and experience with each other and they would of course gather if the galaxy was under threat but for the most part, they'd be on their own.

    You might argue that without the Order, a Jedi would be more prone to temptation but I disagree. I don't think it matters. Luke wasn't part of an order and he resisted temptation whereas both Dooku and Anakin didn't.
  24. purplerain Force Ghost

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    I was thinking about this too. I loved this concept in Tales of the Jedi and it could be a brilliant change from the, as you put it, centralized and dogmatic prequel Jedi.

    It's interesting how the Sith and Jedi were both centralized throughout the movies and both were destroyed as a result.
    Last edited by purplerain, Apr 3, 2014
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  25. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

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    So a group of super powered individuals who wander the galaxy doing whatever they please........ya, that would go over well with people. I'm sure you'd love it if one day a stranger showed up and imposed his sense of justice and right and wrong on you, your family and friends, whether you agreed with it or not and then left.

    How many hundreds of thousands of Jedi, not millions, were part of the Order and resisted temptation? But those 3 are all we going to judge on?