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TFA Luke Skywalker's New (or Old) Jedi Order?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by Dra---, Aug 19, 2013.

  1. plaidphoenix

    plaidphoenix Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Yes, except in the time of the PT, the Jedi Order had considerable resources to draw upon, not to mention the support of the government. There's no guarantee Luke will have these resources or access to them, never mind the question of if people will consent to let him take their children to train as Jedi.
     
  2. Jedsithor

    Jedsithor Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2005
    I've always wondered if Luke had a midichlorian test. I presume he did when he was born, given that it was in a medical facility with two Jedi present. Leia too.
     
  3. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I thought it was more that 20 Jedi (Masters?) specifically left the Order, rather than Fell - Dooku is being referred to as the last of the Lost Twenty in AoTC before anyone's aware that he's gone dark.

    I think it might also be over a larger period than 1000 years, in the EU - in one of the Darth Bane books, I believe it's noted that it's the Lost 6, or something like that, about 10 years after the end of the last Sith War - which might mean that they fell in the centuries before the Sith War ended.
     
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  4. Zuckuss the Ruckuss

    Zuckuss the Ruckuss Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Well, they could do a totally different take on Luke. What if he didn't turn out to be this great Jedi Master? What if he came to conclusion that "no Jedi=no Sith. The galaxy would be safer place if neither actually existed."
     
  5. JediMatteus

    JediMatteus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2008
    bad take. he should be the most powerful Force user and he should have a thriving jedi order in the dozens to hundreds by now.
     
  6. sluggo1313.

    sluggo1313. Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2013

    How would LUke have dozens or hundreds of Jedi by now if takes 10-15 years to trade someone?
     
  7. JediMatteus

    JediMatteus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2008
    not if you train a whole class, have an academy like in the novels. You ever read Jedi academy trilogy? By the time of the NJO in aby 25 they had 100 Jedi. episode 7 comes out even after that point.
     
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  8. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    Obi-wan ran a test aboard a ship. It's not that difficult to do. And why wouldn't the Republic support Luke, after he just fought for them and kept them from being blown up in the first place? Much less the second time.

    It takes a year, at least, to have basic knowledge of the Force. It takes longer to get those Padawans to gain experience as Jedi, before taking the trials. Luke can follow the same pattern like in the EU, where he had at least three hundred Jedi by the time NJO started.
     
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  9. plaidphoenix

    plaidphoenix Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2013
    I think the Republic supporting Luke is all but a given and that 30 years is a long time for Yoda and Obi-Wan to pass along additional information and advice to Luke on how to rebuild the Jedi. That being said, given the cunning and scheming of Palpatine, he could have easily rewritten the laws concerning what tests are run on newborn children and what records are kept as well as where and how those records are kept. There's also the question of whether or not the population at large was aware that Palpatine was a Force user. If this is the case, I'd suspect that a fair number of parents are going to be either unwilling or not totally comfortable handing any of their children over to any Force user for training as a Jedi, no matter how noble their intentions are or how widespread their reputation is. Anakin's mother didn't object to Qui-Gon taking Annie off to be a Jedi because she knew life as a Jedi was far preferable to life as a slave. Not everyone will have the same point of view where their children and the Jedi are concerned.
     
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  10. Skaddix

    Skaddix Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2012

    Yeah depends on training method. I assume Luke is going to do accelerated with more hands on training.
     
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  11. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Those laws no longer apply since the Empire is pretty much gone and what's left is the Republic. Not to mention that the PT era of the EU had an open invitation to all citizens to either come to the Temple to see if their child could be trained, or a Jedi would come to them. Depicted many times in "Jedi Apprentice" and "Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter". In the OT era, Luke did some digging and found people who demonstrated abilities that could be a result of the Force and thus set out to find them. Something along those lines will be used.


    Yet the Jedi numbered in the ten thousand range. Even after the last war with the Sith. So I'd say that's not an issue.
     
  12. plaidphoenix

    plaidphoenix Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Yes, but repealing those laws is different from undoing the damage those laws created. Now, being a hero of the Rebellion and the only known Jedi Knight in the galaxy, it's not unreasonable that Luke will be called in to help with any number of problems that arise as the Republic tries to rebuild in the wake of the rebellion. Now even if Luke is very careful in not letting himself get overwhelmed with helping deal with these problems, that's going to leave him a limited amount of time to go off on his own. Even if the government is tolerant in understanding that Luke needs to actually spend time looking for new Jedi, they're going to want a return on whatever resources or funding they provide him. And let's be honest, at the end of ROTJ, to our knowledge, Luke is the only living, breathing Jedi in the galaxy, as such, he's the only person qualified to recognize who may or may not have the potential to become a Jedi. Nobody else can really do that for him.

    I think it is an issue if people know Palpatine was a Sith/Force user. If people know then they may not want to risk their child becoming another Palpatine if Luke screws things up. Also, Luke is one person, not 10,000. There's a big difference there. Ten thousand Jedi Knights, Masters and Apprentices can get a lot done. One Jedi, not so much even when that one Jedi has a track record like Luke's.
     
  13. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    You're missing the point, the laws of the Empire do not hold to the Republic. Thus any and all laws passed between Palpatine's declaration of the new order to when the second Death Star blew up and when Coruscant was taken by the Alliance, becomes null and void. As to funding, the Jedi Order was never forced to pay for anything they had. It was given to them by the Senate. The Temple, the ships, the resources therein, all came from the Senate. Free of charge. That's why the Jedi were given rides via starships like the Radiant in TPM.

    A thousand years ago, the Sith ruled the galaxy until infighting and the war against the Jedi and the Republic ended things. Once order was restored, the Jedi once again went back to what they were and once again, they were able to recruit new members from families.


    That's why Luke was told to pass on his knowledge, so that the Jedi Order could live again.
     
  14. plaidphoenix

    plaidphoenix Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2013
    No, I do get this point, I do. My point is that whatever laws the Emperor put in place during his reign will have a cause and effect on the general population that the Republic will have to deal with. If the Emperor passes a law or decree that says anyone arrested for sedition or treason will be removed to Prison X on Planet Y and then executed and that absolutely no records will be kept of any of this, the Republic will have to deal with the consequences of this law in how it presents its system of Justice. Open trials, writs and warrants, legal council, so on and so forth. In government and/or politics, perception often trumps reality and common sense. Look at how Palpatine was able to manipulate the laws of the Republic to suit his own end.

    In this case, I think it's an issue of respectfully agreeing to disagree on the issues surrounding how Luke will go about restoring the Jedi order.
     
  15. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    People will always be born with the ability to use the Force. That never goes away. Thus Luke can find new candidates for the Jedi Order. As to the public, they're not going to care what Palpatine, the guy who created a weapon to blow up planets, has to say. They didn't care when the Sith controlled the Republic before and declared the Jedi enemies of the state. Why would it matter now?
     
  16. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Going by the EU, that's a true statement.
     
  17. Fastback

    Fastback Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2014
    The galaxy does not need Jedi or Sith to have war or peace, good and evil lives in all force or no force.
     
  18. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Yuuzhan Vong, Ssi-Ruuk, Yevetha, etc.
     
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  19. JediMatteus

    JediMatteus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2008
    sure, the whole sith things gets old, and I love the Vong. But force users need to fight force users at times. Otherwise lightsaber battles would never happen.
     
  20. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 14, 2013
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  21. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    I'd love me some vibrosword on lasersword action.
     
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  22. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 14, 2013
    I wonder if the Jedi will evolve throughout the ST.
     
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  23. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Malleus Maleficarum star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    The new Jedi Academy is an online course. "I'm a Phoenix... like my father before me".
     
  24. Dameron

    Dameron Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 8, 2014

    The prequel trilogy and Clone Wars gave me all the "Jedi are bad" plot points I care to have, ever. Jedi are child abductors. Jedi are Sith waiting to happen. The Jedi code will kill your social life. All the Jedi in the galaxy can't find Sith if they don't want to be found. Jedi deserve to be wiped out and on and on and on with how much is wrong with the Jedi. And those plot points are there, in the movies-- I'm not saying we should pretend they don't exist.

    I want to see a sequel trilogy where being a Jedi is awesome, having Jedi on your side in a war is the best weapon you can have, and the galaxy is a better place for having Jedi in it.
     
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  25. Zuckuss the Ruckuss

    Zuckuss the Ruckuss Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2013

    My position wasn't that the Jedi are bad. It was merely a character interpreting a logical/ethical compromise. It was also merely a potential "starting point" to where we meet Luke as a character again. A possible approach that would perhaps subvert fan expectation(I.E. Luke is a great Jedi Master when we are reintroduced).
    That proposition makes no declaration that the state of the Jedi would have to play out to their obliteration by episode 9. In fact, I would expect quite the opposite.

    In fact, I would suggest that exploring the theme "Why does the galaxy even need Jedi?" is far better approached with this particular set up.

    I also have no illusion that this will be what Abrams does for episode 7.
     
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