ST Luke Skywalker's New (or Old) Jedi Order?

I think the right amount is more than the OT, but less than the straight-up army that comes to the rescue on Geonosis. About as many Jedi as got close-ups/lines in the prequels, I think, is the right amount.

Long-term, trying to force the numbers of force wielders too low causes bad contortions later. Lucas was bad about creating the Jedi/Sith he himself needed and then saying "And this is all." It made the movies more dramatic, but it caused many unsatisfying decisions to be necessary throughout the EU. It sounds like the new EU is going to have more canonical weight than the old one. Let's not deform it by forcing the writers to reach for cheats to satisfy our thirst for lightsaber battles. It should be reasonable to have a video game set in the sequel era with a player-designed Jedi and have that not violate all known canon, for instance. It should be possible to imagine that some background Jedi took care of some plot thread our heroes forgot about.

I think if you add up the number of Jedi who speak or are seen close-up in the prequel trilogy, that's about right.

 

This. In fact, going by just the OT, the main conflict is Rebels vs. Empire, not Jedi vs. Sith.

 

Not too much.
It takes time to fully train a Jedi, not to mention a Master. At the end of ROTJ Luke started from scratch, let's assume he took one apprentice, trained him, then he took one and Luke another one and so on... At some point I'd guess that Luke began training the younglings (it takes a very patient, wise and powerful person to train kids, if that's not Luke, I don't know who could it be).
I'd say that there will be approximately 500 Jedi's at the time of Ep 7, and that includes all of them, younglings, Padawans, Knights and Masters.

 

500?? In 30 years??

Obi Wan was a great Jedi...wasn't he about 25 when he started training Anakin? And how long until he became a Master? At best -If Luke started training someone (or two or three) straight after ROTJ it would take them atleast 20 years before they would be in a position to train others...wouldn't it?

As far as Masters go -There could only be Luke.

 

Training a whole class at once, as much training as Yoda gave Luke in TESB, and with many going on to train their own apprentices in a similar fashion, was how the EU built up the numbers fast.

Maybe the movies will do something similar?

 

Ewan McGregor was 34 in 2005, and Obi-Wan was a master considered accomplished enough to solo General Grievous. If Luke started training some young kids soon after ROTJ... it seems like the time scales would match up perfectly. So perfectly in fact, it makes me wonder if we may even be introduced to ST Luke as he presides over his first student's elevation to master.

 

That's an interesting idea.

Seeing Luke training a bunch of young Jedi at once, a bit like Yoda in AoTC, might work well also.

 

Yeah. By the end of the Vong War, the Order was big enough for Luke to reform the Jedi Council.

 

I think it will be a major cock up, on the storytellers part, if there are not multiple Jedi in the ST. I don't think there needs to be thousands of them, but they need to be seen as a group/order that have a critical mass. Be it 10, 50 or 100. "Pass on what you have learnt" seemed to be something Yoda was keen to impart to Luke. I think we need to see the result of that in ST - the actual Return of the Jedi.

 

Well put. It doesn't necessarily have to have a Temple - but it should be active and doing a lot of good in the galaxy.

 

It is possible.

I don't know.
Luke was in no position after ROTJ to train kids, he had to rebuild the Order quickly to foil any possible threat that could use the vaccum created by the Empire's demise. Maybe his first apprentice was older and took a crash course as Luke did, as well as his (the apprentice's) one just to establish a couple of Knights to protect the newly founded Republic or something. Luke became a Knight in what, five year period that OT spanned through? My estimation of 500 hundred may be a bit of a stretch, but it is possible just by OT Jedi-making standards.
And for Masters, I do not agree. I hope we'll see full Jedi council in the ST.

 

Fair enough...

 

Some Jedi may have survived Order 66 and the Purge. They would be 60-70 years old of course.

 

I'm speculating that at the beginning of the ST Luke and Leia will only have trained one or two Jedi each, most likely just their children, but that number will grow throughout the ST until we have the beginnings of a new Order at the end.

 

Leia might keep her force sensitivity a secret; *if* she remains a pivotal political figure, probably best hide the fact you're the daughter of Darth Vader. I doubt should would get involved in Jedi training.

 

I truely can't figure why people would wanna see a new Jedi order, with disciples and masters and brown clothes everywhere. That's just wrong. Jedi meant a lot in the OT because they were extinct. Because being ONE meant A LOT. I'm afraid some of you spent too much time in the EU an/or KOTOR and now think this is some kind of standard to have as many Jedi as possible around. But that's not cool. It was never cool. What's cool is two Jedi. One blue saber, one red. I wish never to see Jedi extravanganza like Ep II again.

Same goes for people being concerned about the political context of Ep VII. Let's get real here. They're just making 2h20 of pure, unaltered SW fun. They don't care about filling the gaps or explaining anything, which the all-new EU will certainly do over the next years. Some of you don't understand that we're gonna have a movie, not a miracle that will magically explain 30 years gone by, introduce new characters, new plot, and still have room for a whole new Jedi order and political intrigues. No, I think they're going for a more simple thing, revolving around the Solo family.

 

Agreed. Big things start small, right?

I want to see what Luke learned and how he goes about rebuilding an entire new order. That should happen on screen, not off. Rebuilding the order, that just doesn't happen overnight. Especially when civilization had to also restart. Especially when there's a bloody Empire to clean up after. There's just no way he'd have an order of knights in the multitude of 500, 100, or even 30. I'd say he's got one...one single Jedi Knight under his .... ermm, command. The past 30 some odd years went like: 1-15 years just learning more about the Force. Exploring the Galaxy. Helping out to defeat the rest of the Empire and clean up the mess. Maybe teaching Leia a thing or two. (although I don't really see her being a Jedi Knight at all. Her passions were political.) During that latter part of the time, he takes on an apprentice. He tests out that his teachings work. That apprentice takes the next 10 years to become a knight. The movie opens with him being a knight for 10 years, and introduces how the Solos or the next generation comes about and get involved.

Then ep 8, Luke and that Knight take on a dozen or so apprentices (the Solo kids are included in that group) and are trained. A dozen or so, so that they can form the first council later on. And then by 9, the Jedi Order and council are established at the same time as the Republic is fully formed.

Clearly this is all speculation, but that's what I'd love to see. I'm mean..who knows really what's going to happen. But I want to see the reasons and movements onscreen, and not swept under the carpet. I don't think having the movie start with 100 Jedi Knights with a council already established will be as interesting as seeing what developments took place for it to be rebuilt in the first place.

 

I've always said, it would be better if there was no public Jedi Order; rather Luke trained people in secret.

 

Yes. The key here is "on screen". There's gonna be a sense that we have missed a few adventures (maybe scars etc.), but i don't think there's gonna be a huge revolution from the get go, like Luke is a super cool Jedi whose trained dozens. That would be like : why couldn't the movie start 10 years earlier then? If the story starts 30 years later, it has to be for a damn good reason. The end of the training of his first Jedi could be one of them. But even that would be too abrupt. No, I'm sticking with my theory : we'll share every adventure with the new Jedi, from his small beginnings as a nobody, to the Jedi Master in VIII. That's what every trilogy is about !

Besides I'm trying to think like the moviemakers. They're not gonna rely heavily on Mark Hamill. Obviously not. He's made efforts but he's out of shape. There will be next to no scene with him not sitting. And he'll be sitting in the dark. Garantied. He'll be a distant mentor. Just here to pass the torch and give a few one-liners about how the Force is incredible.

 

And THAT is a great idea too. I've always loved the idea that the Galaxy would be completely distrustful towards Force users after the OT. Luke goes in exile. Leia hides her abilities/does not get trained.

It would also mirror the Sith from the PT. Where the Sith were hiding behind the scenes, putting plans into actions. Imagine Luke doing things in the background, he or his one Knight show up, save the day, and disappear just as suddenly. The Jedi become a myth.

Then, some other evil entity shows up and the new Jedi come in and save the day, and gain the Galaxy's admiration again.

PT - Palpatine secretly plans the destruction of the Jedi and Republic. HIs apprentice Darth Maul, randomly shows up and carries out this plan and cause fear.
ST - Luke (the Anti-Palpatine) secretly plans the creation of the Jedi Order and the rebuilding of the Republic. His one Knight, shows up randomly, saves the day, and then disappears once more, never seeking rewards or pats-on-the-back.

Nice little mirror there, I think.

 

I mean Mark Hamill can't be the head of the new Jedi Order and look like he does. Look at Harrison. The guy is older than him but in so much better condition. It doesn't add up. They have to make Luke an old recluse, possibly alcooholic from saving the world and his dad being Vader and everything.

 

I'm not sure if this has been posted, so I apologize in advance if it has.

But Luke should have plenty of naysayers in the Jedi Order. I can picture a faction looking at him skeptically and saying, "Now wait a minute. Your dad was Darth Vader so...we're not sure how much we should trust you." It would be like the son of Saddam Hussein or son of Hitler training American troops.

Sure, Luke can say "No, no, he redeemed himself in the end!" But then the doubters could easily come back with, "Prove it. You were the only witness so how do we know your story is true?"

I see a great opportunity for dissention within the ranks. Okay, now I'll go back and read the thread from the beginning.....

 

you'd have some Jedi that survived Order 66... I can see anywhere from 100-400 Jedi, Padewans and a few Masters at this point.. its an entire generation since RoTJ....

I was the first to speculate that Max could be a Jedi that survived Order 66 and is now helping Luke...something else I brought up ...we never saw Mace 'die' he was alive when Palps tossed him out a window... Who's to say he landed on a speeder or a bus and survived the fall? Bringing back Samuel Jackson certainly won't hurt the box office, it will definitely help... and he'd be the same age as Max now so its doable

 

This sounds a bit like a Spider Man or a Batman movie. Star Wars isn't about heroes being rejected, it's not about introspection, it's pure adventure ! Sure things are grand in scale, but we never worry about more than 4 characters, let alone the public opinion ! We'd be swamped in scenes like in the Matrix 2 & 3, councils about Neo and whatnot. I'm 99% sure the movie is gonna be adventure, simple chase, not hours of expositions and not tons of important characters.

I'm really trying to figure out the most logical possibilities for a fun plot with compelling characters, and rule out everything that doesn't fit a few rules, the first being Abrams has the OT in reference. I don't think he even acknowledges the PT. The second is : the picture of the cast, IS the whole cast, minus MVS. The puzzle must be solved with these people only. There won't be any more Jedi than can be portrayed with the cast we have. There won't be Jedi like there will be Imperial officers. "Jedi" is gonna mean something again, I'm pretty damn sure of it.