ST Luke Skywalker's New (or Old) Jedi Order?

Hatfields vs McCoys with lightsabers.......

 

I think thats a big of miss quote

TARKIN: Surely he must be dead by now.

VADER: Don't underestimate the power of the Force.

TARKIN: The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe.
You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion.


http://www.blueharvest.net/scoops/anh-script.shtml

 

I know.

 

For Episode VII I kinda like the idea of Luke only having 1, maybe 1 or 2 former students and thats it.

One of the rules the PT Jedi had was that a Knight/Master could only teach 1 student at a time. Why would Luke change/break this rule? Why would he choose quanity over quality?

 

sluggo1313. (fenton?) : Please use the EDIT function to add to your posts instead of making multiple back-to-back posts.

 

Perhaps because the rules have changed? Circumstances are, of course, vastly different now, following the near eradication of the Order, than they were at the pinnacle of the Jedi Order's powers.

Heck, if you're a fan of the EU, you'll note that even the old Order has had a long history of adapting to changing times in the past. The Jedi Order has a very long history, and it hasn't always operated in the way it was portrayed in the PT.

 

But having lots of Jedi who aren't as well trained or prepared isn't a good way to rebuild the Order. It make take time but the right way to do it would be go slow, build a good foundation, and build something that will last.

The EU is meaningless.

And yes eht13, it is fenton. i forgot the password for that profile and don't use the email anymore.

 

In the OT, we only have Yoda and Obi-Wan's perspective on how many Jedi are actually left. We know from the PT their use of the force has been diminished, so some Jedi might have survived Order 66 and Vader over the years and Yoda and Obi might not be aware. I like Ahsoka too, and she could make an appearance in the ST, but I'm more interested in seeing her in Rebels. In fact, I don't think I'm that interested in seeing a lot of older Jedi; it just doesn't seem necessary to the plot when we have force ghosts.

Another source of potential knowledge about Jedi is the Rebellion. Notice in the OT they always say May the Force be with you before going into battle. That suggests knowledge of the force and perhaps more: knowledge of the Jedi Order.

So here we are 30 or 40 years after ROTJ. Luke probably has had all the resources he needs to rebuild the order. Leia has government connections. Lando and Han have illicit connections. The Rebellion-New Republic probably has enough supporters of bringing the Jedi Order back that individuals, if not the government itself, have contributed to the cause. I'm also sure Luke would train more than one apprentice at a time, simply out of necessity.

I know a lot of you want a small order, maybe 12 Jedi or so, but I think it's more likely we have something like 50-100 by the time of the ST. This is still not a lot of Jedi in a galaxy so big, and a galaxy that's trying to deal with the aftermath of an Empire falling. I imagine they are quite overwhelmed with Imperial Remnant, pirates, gangsters, systems that wish to remain independent, and all these corrupt trade and banking organizations that have probably regained power with the collapse of the Empire.

Edit: Yoda would train multiple padawans in the PT. So the precedent is already there. Training multiple apprentices might be difficult for Luke, but it doesn't mean that it's not necessary, or possible. If he takes too long to rebuild the order, the order's enemies will easily destroy it.

Edit 2: It also occurs to me that mistraining some of his Jedi might be a good story point. Some of them might not be as powerful as PT Jedi and others might be tempted by the darkside. The writers might like these sorts of weaknesses when plotting the ST.

 

But we don't know that this is the right way anymore. That's my point. The rules of the game have changed in a lot of very fundamental ways, and this may be one of them. All things being equal, the slow and steady path may well be the preferred method, but it may not be realistic at this point in time.

For that matter, who is to say that a different teaching method has to mean Jedi who are any less well trained or prepared? I'd imagine training a small coterie of Jedi at once would have advantages that the one-on-one method would not, and vice-versa. But like I said, for all we know, it may well come down to circumstances outside of the control of the Jedi which help to shape the new doctrine. We'll just have to wait and see.

Well, okay, but it does help to illustrate the point that the PT version of the Jedi isn't the only way we've ever seen the Order presented.

 

Tarkin does say it to Vader, He also tells him that "I feel your the last of your religion!" right after. I think it happens when Vader sences that Obi-wan is on the death star. Soon after Vader's line "A presence I haven't felt since.." Then he goes to visit Tarkin to tell him that Obi-wan is here and that he felt a tremor in the force, ending with I must face him alone. Something along those lines.

 

I only hope we don't have training like Luke had, "Two Week Boot Camp!!!" Yes, I know it was not two weeks, it was more like a month. My only real issue with ESB was that there was no real distinguishable timeline. I only hope that we can have a better laps in time during the training of young Jedi. It just can't be "poof" you are a Jedi.

 

What the characters say shouldn't really be taken so literally, I think. Vader's "all that's left of their (Jedi) religion" as far as Tarkin knows and his knowledge on the subject is not really the definitive truth.
An ocassional Jedi could have survived Order 66 (as has been the case in some EU material) but that does not mean that same Jedi will be alive some 30 to 40 years after ROTJ.

 

It happens soon after this scene:



INT. DEATH STAR - CONFERENCE ROOM
Darth Vader paces the room as Governor Tarkin sits at the
far end of the conference table.

VADER He is here...

TARKIN Obi-Wan Kenobi! What makes you think
so?

VADER A tremor in the Force. The last time
I felt it was in the presence of my
old master.

TARKIN Surely he must be dead by now.

VADER Don't underestimate the power of the
Force.

TARKIN The Jedi are extinct, their fire has
gone out of the universe. You, my
friend, are all that's left of their
religion.

There is a quiet buzz on the comlink.

TARKIN Yes.

INTERCOM VOICE Governor Tarkin, we have an emergency
alert in detention block A A-twenty-
three.

TARKIN The princess! Put all sections on
alert!

VADER Obi-Wan is here. The Force is with
him.

TARKIN If you're right, he must not be
allowed to escape.

VADER Escape is not his plan. I must face
him alone.

 

If you're referring to the film, then no, he does not. I was just trying to be polite about it.

I know exactly what Tarkin says to in the film, and Tarkin absolutely, emphatically does not utter either of the quotes you've attributed to him. You have his words wrong.

You say "Tarkin in Episode IV states that " the rest of the jedi have been driven out of the Galaxy" . This doesn't imply death, not by a long shot," when in fact, Tarkin's words were "The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. You my friend, are all that is left of their religion," which not only implies death, Tarkin flat-out states it.

While this is not proof that every last Jedi is dead at this point (in fact, we know two of the greatest Jedi ever, one very important soon-to-be Jedi, and, one could argue, one Chosen One lying dormant in the guise of the Sith, are very much alive at this point), the words which Tarkin actually spoke certainly do not imply in any way that there are other Jedi roaming out there in the galaxy, as you had argued. Quite the opposite, in fact.

It probably sounds as if I'm being a lot more harsh about it than I mean it to, so I'm sorry if it seems that way.

 

So I guess I proved my self wrong! Their fire has gone out of the Universe is what Tarkin Says! Oh Well! I'll take the walk of shame!

 

Nope, You were absolutely right. I heard the wrong things way back when! I would have given my left testicle earlier on that quote, then I found the script on line and I felt a really big foot kick me from behind! Anyway, I still think there are some Jedi alive somewhere.

 

Nah, no need for that. Simply pray five Hail Yoda's as an act of contrition, followed by an offering in the name of the Force, the Son of Skywalker, and the Holy lightsaber, and we're cool.

 

Don't you think it would be cool if Yoda or Ben would tell Luke to Go to Coruscant cause there you will find someone that has been looking for you. Then while following the Force,Luke gets lead to a very old and decrepid Mace Windu screaming like this:

 

I think I'd prefer a kick in the Buttocks!

 

I just think from a scale perspective for the flick you'd want to have more than 2 or 3 Jedi in the entire series. Also if you have a handful of Jedi they can all bounce off each other. Also seeing Luke trying to train more than 1 student would be interesting drama. Also from a universe-related logistics standpoint, Luke has to rebuild the Jedi. Using only one master and one padawan could end the entire order real quick with an improper hyperspace malfunction. For the Jedi to survive kinda have to not put all the eggs in one basket.

Not that I'd think it was wrong of the moviemakers to go to the 1 master / 1 student idea but I think there's more potential if they go with Luke and having multiple students. I just would have a problem if the flick kicks off and, boom!, we're back at the the PT Jedi order levels Mark II, which is basically what the EU turned into.

 

My take on the new Jedi organization (pure speculation):

My guess is that Luke is struggling at times between Yoda’s petition to train others in the force and the fear that his students could fall as his father. I would go along with the idea that the Jedi are few in number (compared to the PT) because of obstacles that have prevented Luke to train more than just his family and a few others. Resistance because of past force users, discovery of the link between him and Vader and the new villain, may have all contributed in the delay of his order. I would however think that the existing Jedi are aware of force-sensitives throughout the galaxy (maybe have even contacted them) and would be prepared to train them when the time comes.

I would like to see the Jedi headquarters somewhere away from Coruscant, with no attachments to the Government. It certainly doesn't make a very good action movie, but I would like to see the Jedi purpose centered around helping those in need who cant help themselves (i.e. any type of slavery).

 

Luke's an introvert and a loner. Yes, he has friends he's deeply loyal to, and enjoys being in their presence. His best friend is a robot. With that in mind, I'm guessing that Luke's first pupil is the main Jedi / Force instructor of whatever order there is. Number of graduates is yet to be determined. This would also free up the character of Luke to be available for a journey or an adventure.

 

oh Dude That's funny!

 

I think the Jedi order had more or less developed their own culture in terms of training, living with, and managing the Jedi. There were typically about 10,000 at any given time in the Republic days, so it would have been necessary for this culture to have developed to ensure that Jedi were well trained and following the code (you see how important having a code of conduct and ethics could be with this many Jedi; results could be disastrous if things go awry with even a few of them; the code is underrated). This culture had apparently been quite effective, as evidenced by "over 1000 generations of being the guardians of peace and justice in the universe"; there was little indication of problems with Jedi in all of that time period (not sure how many years are in 10000 generations, but it is a lot); and no sign of Sith until Sidious and Maul .

In the interview in the bonus material of the PT DVD's, Lucas refers to Jedi as "the marshals" of the galaxy. That being the case, Luke may need to train more than a handful to maintain some kind of order with the power vacuum that would exist after the fall of the Empire; there would be a lot of chaos all over the place (fertile ground for good storylines in the ST ); I agree that 12 is not enough. It would be problematic that there is not Jedi institution or culture in place for the Jedi being trained to help ensure that they are taught, raised, managed, and trained correctly, but that would be Luke's job to develop (lots of advice from force ghosts will be necessary).

A code IS necessary for the most powerful individuals in the universe. You don't want to go about having a Jedi order in some random or haphazard way.