Luke Vader duel

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by MasterAnders, Feb 28, 2003.

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  1. MasterAnders Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    star 1
    In ROTJ luke beats vader,if you look closer see how many open rooms luke made vader could easely killed or unarmed luke.

    what do you guys think
  2. Darth-Horax Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2001
    star 6
  3. Master_Sidious Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 20, 2003
    star 1
    Try rewording the question. It makes absolutely no sense.
  4. MasterAnders Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    star 1
    Again.
    Luke beats vader to easy,luke made many open rooms and vader dont attack?
  5. darth-skycrawler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2001
    star 2
    Master Unders is to saying that when Luke thought Vader it appears tha he won very easily. After a close look though he claims that Luke left himself open on anumber of occasions. He then continues that Vader should have been able to main or kill Luke when heleft himself open. I personall agree with this theory. I think if you look at th duel it is clear that Vader could have killed Luke with ease when he went into his age but the love he had for his son stopped him.
  6. _Xanatos_ Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2003
    star 3
  7. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    I don't agree with this theory because Vader was already getting tired during the final assault because by the time Luke had Vader down, you'll notice that Vader was breathing heavily like he was exhausted so he wasn't able to seize the opportunity to strike down Luke due to the length of time he wasted during the duel.
  8. Diogonese Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2002
    star 2
    ...ummm, why would Vader get tired? Isn't he; "more machine, then man"? And why would he have been breathing heavily? Wasn't his breathing mechanically regulated?
  9. -Winter- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2002
    star 2
    Maybe, just maybe, Vader subconsciously didn't want to kill Luke; he did save Luke in the end. You might as well ask why Vader didn't just force-choke him to death. This is a movie. ;)
  10. Darth Kroger Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2000
    star 1
    ^ Good answer ;)

    I like to put it down to the fact that Luke is just faster than Vader. Yeah he left himself open quite a number of times (not nearly being up to Vaders standard as a sword fighter) but then Luke doesnt have to deal with being wrapped in a transportable iron lung either.

    Luke's speed, when coupled with his unleashed frustration-fuelled strength, is what wins him the fight.
  11. The_Anakin_Wannabe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2003
    star 4
    I think Vader couldn't bring himself to kill his son. Luke even says that same thing to Vader. Whilst Vader tries to shrug it off, he still cannot bring himself to do it.
  12. Cal_Omas Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2003
    star 2
    Of course, Vader could have destroyed Luke anyime he wanted to. He knew it, Luke knew it, Obi-Wan and Yoda knew it. But Vader would never kill his own son. He just couldn`t.
  13. NiktosRule Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2001
    star 4
    I don't think Vader was trying to win the duel. The purpose was to get Luke to turn to the darkside and to do that he had to strike someone down. Vader was expendable and probably told by Palpy to not go all out.
  14. Kia-Ruse Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2003
    star 1
    Luke wailed all over Vader blatently. At the risk of sounding redundant, this is once again the 'Seven Forms Of Jedi Dueling' seen cinematically.

    Vader and Luke are practicioners of Form V dueling, the most agressive form developed through kinetic and energetic aid of the Force. No way Vader, at this point in his 'mechanical life' could have held off Luke, a boy who's pure training and very being flows from the Force. Luke's style is, in no way, elegant or even skilled but he basically bludgeons his father to pieces using a Form that his father no longer has the speed or strength to utilise effectively.
  15. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    I don't think Luke has a form, actually, since he never learned how to duel properly. Have you noticed how baseball-like a lot of his whacking is? He slashes about wildly, which is a very poor strategy to use against someone like Vader, who can overpower him easily. Since Vader's right arm is known to be prosthetic, it has to be stronger than natural.

    The RotJ duel is all plot device. Vader responds to Luke's onslaught by walking backwards. He responded to a similar attack in the ESB duel by slicing Luke's hand off. Luke may get stronger in the Force between the two films, but his saber technique doesn't change much.
  16. Kia-Ruse Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2003
    star 1
    Luke's style in ROTJ is just too aggressive to be any other form than V. I'm not saying it was a conscious decision to devote his style to Form V, like you said, he wasn't classically trained or would have much knowledge of the Seven Forms, but his youth, energy and emphasis in the Force overpowered his father who was, at the time, in no way prepared to fend off a 'jedi' that empowered. Very similar to the way he himself (Anakin) fought in AOTC. His confused feelings about how he felt, I'm sure, played a big part also.
  17. Tayschrenn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 4
    I agree with DLM. Luke has no style at all, he just has the strength of being young and being able to swing the lighstaber much more quickly/etc. than Vader can. If DV and Luke were to much up when they were the same age (somehow :p) then DV would kick that little punk off the screen in four seconds flat. Luke has no form! :p
  18. Kia-Ruse Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2003
    star 1
    Agreed!!! He has chosen NO form but trust me, his style falls under Form V!!!!! Whether he knows it or not. Every saber style can be classified, whether chosen or not.
  19. coney_1_kenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2002
    star 4
    This is a great duel in my opinion-musically and spiritually....just let it be.
  20. The_Anakin_Wannabe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2003
    star 4
    I think the ROTJ duel is the worst choreographed duel of them all. It may have been more exciting for some people than ANH or ESB, but it just wasn't well choreographed. Luke and Vader make the same move about 6 times straight. Then when Luke gets angry he just swings like he's having a hissy fit. No real skill at all. It seems like an anti-climax, especially when new viewers will watch 1-6. The emotion is definately there though, as is the music.
  21. Master_Scooter Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2003
    I have to agree with Anakin_Wannabe, it just sucked, i could have have Choreographed it better than that.
  22. pat5000 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2003
    In my opinion I think GL should have had Luke call his lightsaber and block palpatines force lightning. Then Palpatine pulls out a Sith lightsaber and a second duel takes place between Sideous and luke skywalker. sideous knocks lukes arm off just as Dooku did in AOTC and then attempts to finish him off with force lightning. However Vader intervenes as Anakin Skywalker and hurls palpatine/sideous down the core shaft.

    Also I think I would have had Luke kick Vader backwards before he knocks Vaders hand off.

    What do you think????

  23. Darth_Black Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2002
    hindsight is 20/20, so its realy easy for us to look back on ROTJ as a crummy duel after being treated to the incredible stuff we've seen in the prequels so far...but at the same time, nothing can compare to the raw emotion and all the drama in the ROTJ duel. So far this is the defining battle in star wars, everytime i see it i just have to crack the biggest goofiest smile, because its so intense.
  24. ShadowJustice Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2003


    -Vader wants to turn Luke to the darkside
    -Vader pisses off Luke and Luke turns to the dark side

    SO WHY ON EARTH HE SHOULD KILL LUKE ???
  25. Darth Dark Helmet Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 1999
    star 6
    I think the ROTJ duel is the worst choreographed duel of them all. It may have been more exciting for some people than ANH or ESB, but it just wasn't well choreographed.

    I think that was on purpose. If Lucas had wanted to, he probably could have coreogrpahed it better, but the main focus of the duel is what's being said. The interaction between Luke and Vader.

    Also, there really isn't that much of a duel to work with. The end when Luke attacks Vader is the most sustained action of the entire duel.
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