Luke's massacre of Jabba & crew was a major 'darkside' act

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by SoundMaster, Apr 21, 2003.

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  1. SoundMaster Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2003
    star 1
    Was Luke merely 'saving' his buddy Han, or was he skirting/indulging in the darkside, albeit unknowlingly?

    I think he was. All along, he was following in his father's footsteps: reckless, hasty, 'always looking towards the future' or to bigger & better things. And the massacre of Jabba & crew at the Pit of Karkoon was an example of his darkside flirtations.

    WOuld Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon (or any Jedi, for that matter) have endorsed such wholesale slaughter? Remember, if "Luke honors what...they fight for", then he would make that sacrifice. Instead, he allows his ATTACHMENTS to get the better of him....much as he did in his last duel with Vader, when Darth's threats of attempting to convert Leia to the darkside pushed Luke into darkside territory.


    Discuss!
  2. burrisjedimaster1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 4
    Liea was the one who killed Jabba. I don't look at the barge as a massacre they were just trying to exscape. Luke did tell Jabba to let them free or suffer the consiquinces.

    You need to think about the scene when Luke enters Jabba's pallace and force chokes out the guards.
  3. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    You do what you have to do in order to protect your friends and get out of a bad situation.
  4. SoundMaster Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2003
    star 1
    The entire act was NOT an act of defense. He knowlingly & willingly entered into a situation that would only require violence and ATTACK - not what Jedi are about.

    Furthermore, in addition to the force-choke of the Gammorean guards (true use of the dark-side), it's LUKE who uses the force to reach for the gun that he intends on shooting Jabba with.

    It was obviously Lucas' intention to show Luke's growing use of the darkside as the path he's following (just as when he strikes down Vader, he looks upon his own mechanized hand & sees the limb of his father than he severed).

    And the parallel with the PT is there, as well. Just as Anakin rushed in to face Dooku, and loses an arm; so to does Luke rush to face Vader & loses a hand.

    Anakin slaughters Sandpeople on Tatooine for killing his mother; Luke slaughters Jabba's goons on Tatooine for imprisoning Han.
  5. ObiBodhiKenobi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2003
    It was a act of self defense, Luke and the gang were trying to save Han and themselves, Doesn't look like a dark act to me...
  6. DamonD Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2002
    star 6
    Luke acted in defense of his friends and himself. He didn't pursue any opponents, or take pleasure in the killing of others, just defended himself against those attacking him and his friends as they tried to escape.

    But I do agree with part of what you're saying. The line between the Light and the Dark when it comes to aggression is pretty thin. Luke did give Jabba and co. plenty of warning and chances out, however.
  7. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    The scene where they're taking Luke away after he kills the Rancor shows how arrogant Luke has become as well. It's pretty bold to tell a vile gangster that he's making the last mistake ever.
  8. Terra Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2000
    star 4
    He was stating a fact, not being arrogant :)
  9. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    It may have been fact, but he was pretty snotty about it. Of course...I don't blame him.

    ;)
  10. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    How is what Luke did any different from Anakin's walking into the droid factory on Geonosis prepared to slaughter as many Geonosians as necessary to save Obi-Wan?
  11. ForceHeretic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2002
    star 4
    The entire act was NOT an act of defense. He knowlingly & willingly entered into a situation that would only require violence and ATTACK

    Mace Windu and the rest of the Jedi did the EXACT same thing in AOTC, but that was not of the dark-side so how could Luke saving Han be any different

    It was rather go in and save Han or let him die, to do any less then what Luke did would have been cowardly and as bad as stabbing Han in the back. If it wasn't in Luke's power to save him then it would be different, but Luke is a jedi
  12. qui-gon-kim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2001
    star 4
    Luke devised several plans to try and get Han out of Jabba's palace, like getting Leia to get Han out. He tried to negotiate with Jabba for his friends' life, but that failed, and had to resort with force (no pun intended). This seems like a very Jedi thing to do.
  13. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    Jabba knew the consequences of what would happen if he didn't let Luke and his friends go. Therefore, what happened was entirely Jabba's fault, and 0% of the blame can be placed upon Luke.
  14. DARTHVAL Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2002
    star 4
    I call it a righteous act.
  15. UK Sullustian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1998
    star 4
    Luke also gave Jabba multiple "outs". He kept offering to end the solution peacefully, but Jabba would have none of it.

    So, at the final moment, he had to go with Plan B: Kick Alien Stuntman Ass.

    UKS
  16. TheWombat Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2002
    star 4
    Furthermore, in addition to the force-choke of the Gammorean guards (true use of the dark-side), it's LUKE who uses the force to reach for the gun that he intends on shooting Jabba with

    Know you how to read minds, do you? Hmmmm...

    For all we knew he was planning to shoot the lights out to cover their escape, or cause some other distraction. Shooting Jabba, even if that little pistol hurt him, would only have resulted in being mobbed and the death of himself and Leia.
  17. Perdition Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 11, 2003
    star 1
  18. Perdition Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 11, 2003
    star 1
    I actually agree with the premise of this thread. All along, Luke was taking a course of action that was slowly leading him down the path of his father. Yes, Luke was staging a rescue of sorts, but, at the same time, he was clearly an aggressor, or attacker, as outlined above.

    And, as someone above has stated, the only true difference is when Luke finally defeats the 'darkside', when he throws down his sabre & tells the Emperor that he's failed.


    Great thread.
  19. Ret Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 1999
    star 6
    "it's LUKE who uses the force to reach for the gun that he intends on shooting Jabba with. "

    That was entirely defensive.
  20. jimkk29 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2002
    star 4
    They were just trying to escape.
  21. ForceHeretic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2002
    star 4
    The groups of people surrounding Luke were already closing in on him, was he supposed to stand by and let them kill him, no he fights like he should

    It would have been a dark-side act NOT to do what Luke did and try to save Han. Standing by and letting your friend who has saved your life multiple times remain Jabba's prisoner would have been the dark-side thing to do. It was completely in Luke's power to save him and therefore would have been much worse had he not done anything
  22. Darth-Cadia Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2003
    star 1
    It was self defense. If he didn't then you could say bye bye plot line. Luke simply killed his agressors. If I had a lightsaber, and somebody was shooting at me, i'd kill them.
  23. JediNdaCity Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2002
    star 3
    Excellent topic! I think there are several things going on with the Han rescue scene. Some of which may not have even been explained yet until we can watch the saga as a whole. I always wondered what was the true significance of Luke wearing black in ROTJ. I knew it couldn't be just a fashion decision. I think Luke is trying to bring back balance and to do this, you have to have a little good and bad going on. Like all people, we all have our darkside, but for the general population, we are all pretty decent humans beings. It's our intelligence and our hearts and concious that keep us from doing true evil. But there are always gonna be some who can't control it and do dastardly acts. Haven't you ever wondered what exactly causes people to flip out and turn into complete monsters? What defect is in a person's brain to cause him/her to commit murder. What makes a Charles Manson? A Ted Bundy? The person that killed that lady in Modesto and her unborn child? How does one let his mind stray that far? I think that is what GL is trying to analyze in Vader. What causes someone to become a truly evil individual. Now, that being said, with Luke, I think he's a study in trying to balance the two forces out. Somehow he has figured out that things can't be all good like before the Empire, but they can't remain as they are now either. Yes, what he did on Jabba's barge was outright violent, but he did it for the right reasons. This gangsta kidnaps his friend over some money and does not plan on releasing him...ever. What recourse did Luke have? Offer him a bargianing table, but if he doesn't bite...he will die. Different from just going in and killing everybody and getting Han outta there. That would've been truly dipping into the darkside. He would've been hasty and done it in anger. Would it have still been righteous? No, because he didn't give jabba a choice. Luke is stratedgizing at every angle and he knows he has to and that means sometimes dabbling in darkside behavior. The stuff he did though was not really extreme. This is why when we see Luke enter, he looks almost like a Sith with that black hooded cloak on. It could be Darth Maul for all we know. I think that's why this scene was shot in that way. This is why he wears black but still has a heart of gold. This is why he did get hit in the hand on the barge by gunfire. This is all revelent to Luke stepping into darkside territory, but he knew when to pull back and when to move forward.
    Another plot point that may be revealed is that what if Han's kidnapping was all orchestrated by the Emperor and not Vader to bring Luke out in the open and cause him to step over into the darkside to save his friends. They knew that was Luke's major weakness and exploited it to the fullest. This is parallel to what is being done to Anakin in AOTC. Someone set up the whole thing with his mother to draw him down the dark path and it would have to be Palpatine/Darth Sidious. This hasn't been proven yet, but based on what Luke went through, I can safely guess this is a parallel plot point in AOTC. But by ROTJ, Luke is smarter, wiser and harder to con. He may even be dabbling into the darkside to confuse Vader and the Emperor's thoughts on what he is exactly doing. This thing with the darkside is also present in the Endor scenes and how things keep going awry when he's in the mix. This is why he knew he had to leave and confront Vader once and for all. As much as he wanted to help his friends and the Alliance, he knew he would only be a liability to the their cause at this point. He had a much more intimate deeper, personal issue at hand that would far outwiegh any Rebel cause, but which would ultimately save it and bring balance back to the galaxy. It's a pretty heavy scene when analyzed and I think much light will be shed on it after Ep. 3.
  24. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    Paragraph separation is your friend.
  25. That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2001
    star 6
    hehehe @ BF,TL ;)

    Well the original title was Revenge of the Jedi and I believe it refers to the sail barge.
    Also, in the original drafts, Yoda tells Luke that Luke had revenge in his heart when he went to save his friends.
    So yeah, I'd say it's pretty bad.
    Luke's not infalable and I think that' the point right up until he finaly throws the saber away.
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