main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

CT Luke's training before ROTJ

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by enigmaticjedi, Aug 2, 2015.

  1. enigmaticjedi

    enigmaticjedi Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2011
    How did he become more powerful? What kind of training did he do?

    If he wanted to hone his Jedi skills before rescuing Han, then why not continue training with Yoda? Obviously, the out-of-universe answer is that Luke had to have that conversation with Yoda on his deathbed. Nevertheless, what would be an in-universe answer?
     
    whostheBossk likes this.
  2. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    As I recently said in the plot hole thread, I only see him as more controlled. He's apparently learned to focus, which allows him to make full use of the things he's learned.
    Beyond that, I don't see him as more powerful.

    IOW, he's probably meditated a lot while doing the exercises Yoda taught him.
     
    Luke'sSeveredHand and Sarge like this.
  3. _Sublime_Skywalker_

    _Sublime_Skywalker_ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 8, 2004
    There's a few side missions during the time between ESB and ROTJ that EU covers. Pretty much any experience a Jedi can gather helps.

    But I agree with Lulu_Mars. I don't see him exponentially more powerful, just more mature and holding a little bit more wisdom, which can do wonders for a Jedi.
     
    Dinos4Ever and Lulu_Mars like this.
  4. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Wisdom and experience. Getting the crap kicked out of him by Vader probably did wonders.
     
    Darth Dnej and Sarge like this.
  5. enigmaticjedi

    enigmaticjedi Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2011
    There is a difference between "getting the crap kicked out of him by Vader" and "kicking the crap out of Vader". Wisdom and experience are great, but I doubt that was the sole reason why Luke had become more powerful than Vader.

    Did he just do the same exercises that Yoda taught him while he was on Tatooine? If that was enough, then he must be a real prodigy.
     
  6. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2005
    well Vader and Sidious sensed more power in him.
     
  7. LZM65

    LZM65 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2015
    I suspect that Luke never became more powerful than his father. I suspect that between Anakin's emotional ennui at the time and Luke's anger toward the end of the duel made him seem more powerful. Don't forget . . . Anakin was more powerful than Obi-Wan, yet he still lost the duel on Mustafar, due to his inability to control his emotions.


    But it seemed obvious to me that Luke's skills had improved between the second and third films. All Lucas had to do was allow Luke to resume his training with Yoda on Dagobah, following the events of "Empire Strikes Back". We didn't have to see it in the third film. But the screenplay for "Jedi" could have hinted or indicated that he did return to resume his training. The only reason Luke's confidence and experience had improved in the third film is that he had to have received more training.
     
    enigmaticjedi likes this.
  8. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2005
    Vader was severely injured though. He never met his potential.
     
  9. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Jedi training is helpful with a teacher, but the training can be done on their own. Most of the training in the Temple stems more from long term practice, after gaining a firm grasp on how to use the Force. This is true of any form of martial arts. You can be taught how to do a roundhouse kick, but it still requires constant practice to perfect in order to get the proper speed and power behind it. On Cloud City, Luke had the means necessary to face Vader, but he was struggling against him because he wasn't ready yet. During the year he was in isolation, Luke kept working on the Force on his own until he was much stronger and more in tune with the Force than he was on Cloud City.

    Nope. Lucas did consider it originally, but felt that it was better if Luke was on his own and unprepared to face Vader and Palpatine. So he indicated that Luke had trained on his own. Hence Vader saying that his skills were complete after checking out his Lightsaber.
     
    Sarge and enigmaticjedi like this.
  10. True Sith

    True Sith Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 10, 2015
    Luke had so much natural Force ability that I don't think it was fully necessary for him to be training with Yoda anymore after learning the basics, either. After TESB, he became mature and focused enough to improve on his own.
     
  11. Ingram_I

    Ingram_I Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2012
    To reiterate as mentioned, the first confrontation with Vader in and of itself marked a major progression in the personal/spiritual development of Luke. I mean, just take the age-old wisdom that is "we learn from our mistakes" and apply it to this mythic, storytelling stage; core to the 'Heroes Journey'.

    Aside from that, he probably hammered out a few sweet 80s training montages. Think: running down the beach alongside Apollo Creed.
     
    KOBBRA, Sarge and CT-867-5309 like this.
  12. LZM65

    LZM65 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2015

    I still believe it was a big mistake on his part. Oh well. I guess there's nothing else to do but except what was shown on the screen and move on.
     
  13. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Well, let's look at Anakin. He had more than enough training under Obi-wan, but he still needed to improve himself in order to reach the point that we see him as a Knight in TCW and in ROTS. So he kept working on himself to the point that he was ready to become a Knight and passed a Jedi trial. Likewise, Kanan hadn't finished his training due to Order 66. But when he started training Ezra and after facing the Inquisitor for the first time, Kanan began training himself to face him again. By the time they fought for the third time, Kanan had improved over the first battle. He became good enough to beat the Inquisitor, but not Vader, who had barely broken a sweat.
     
  14. anakincol

    anakincol Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2009
    I like to think that it took a lot more time for han, leia, and company to make it to bespin then we see. More like a month instead of a week cause they had no hyperdrive. This would mean Luke got more training than is necessarily shown on film and as enigmaticjedi said they beating he got at the hands of vader matured the hell out of him. Then as per the deleted scene he at some point ends up on tatooine to prep to rescue han and build a new lightsaber during the year between films. he had to have found some type of instructions to build his lightsaber in Ben's home and if so it would not be that much of a stretch that he may have found writings or holocrons that ben had or made to help him further his training on his own as he got ready to rescue Han.
     
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  15. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Most people agree that since there was no functioning hyperdrive, that it took the Falcon a few weeks to a couple of months to reach Cloud City. Han indicates that it is a far journey, but that they could make it. Luke himself indicates that he's learned a lot between the tree cave to when he has his vision. The thing is that some of Luke's additional training was cut from the film, or not filmed at all. Thus indicating a passage of time.
     
  16. anakincol

    anakincol Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Like the stuff with yoda tossing silver bars and Luke having to cut them into several pieces in the novelization?
     
  17. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Right. The metal bars scenes were partially or completely filmed, since there is a photo with Hamill holding his saber while Yoda is on his back. But the seeker portions apparently were not filmed. Other ideas were just condensed before or during filming. Such as Luke having the vision a second time while he's asleep outside Yoda's hovel. That scene was most likely omitted and the dialogue shifted to the first time the vision happens.
     
    AnakinColodin likes this.
  18. anakincol

    anakincol Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2009
    thanks cool.
     
  19. CT1138

    CT1138 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2013
    It was completely filmed, but I don't think the effects were ever completed and it doesn't have sound:


    Although, here's one where it looks like somebody added sound, completed the effects, and added scoring (starts at 8:15)
     
  20. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    I'm glad they didn't include that extension - back in those days Han's calling Leia "cold" would have gone even less well than it would today (the implication that Leia is "cold" because she hasn't fallen for Han - a "classic" male viewpoint*).

    *not attributed to all men, just a group who have been proven to exist by their words and actions
     
  21. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    I know. What I meant by partially filmed was that it wasn't completed with all the audio and visual effects.
     
  22. LZM65

    LZM65 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2015

    Anakin's real problems were his emotions, not his skills with a lightsaber or the Force.
     
  23. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    No, but it was part and parcel of why he lost to Dooku. Obi-wan stated that Anakin needed to take his training more seriously because he wasn't. That is what he says to Anakin during the chase and later what he says to Mace and Yoda. The more Anakin trained, the stronger he became.
     
  24. LZM65

    LZM65 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2015

    But his lack of control of his emotions still remained a problem. I can only wonder how the duel on Mustafar would have turned out if Anakin had learned to control his emotions.
     
  25. MatthewZ

    MatthewZ Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Once your mind has been opened up to listen to Force, you can probably self train to a large extent.
     
    Sarge likes this.