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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

CT Luke's training should have lasted until ROTJ

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by MisterJedi2002, Jul 28, 2017.

  1. MisterJedi2002

    MisterJedi2002 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Hello. ROTS is considered by many fans, the LESS GOOD movie of the trilogy classic. I also unhappily agree, but there is one thing that should be in the movie: THE TRAINING OF LUKE. At TESB, Luke quits training to save his friends. It would be good at the beginning of this movie, it would be with Yoda about to finish the training, because only then, Luke would save Han. It could be the first 20 minutes of the movie. This would be the Opening Crawl:

    ''Skywalker returned to the planet
    Dagobah, to become a Jedi,
    hoping to destroy Lord Vader.

    Little does Luke know that the
    GALACTIC EMPIRE has secretly
    begun construction on a new
    armored space station even more
    powerful than the first dreaded
    Death Star.

    When completed, this ultimate
    weapon will spell certain doom for
    the small band of rebels struggling
    to restore freedom to the galaxy.... ''

    What do you think?
     
  2. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Saga / WNU Manager - Knights of LAJ star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    What does ROST in title mean????????
     
  3. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
  4. MisterJedi2002

    MisterJedi2002 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2017
    WOW, I was wrong, ROTJ.
     
    Bazinga'd likes this.
  5. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Saga / WNU Manager - Knights of LAJ star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Editing title.

    Couldnt you argue that since Luke was required to face Vader a second time, his training did in fact last until ROST ROTJ?
     
  6. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    It is like this:

    Like his father before him, Luke's test was to not put his attachment to friends above the greater cause of a Jedi.

    He was tested when his friends were captured at Cloud City. He failed.

    He had a 2nd time's the charm test when his friend, Han, was captured and taken to Jabba's palace. He failed.

    So upon his return to Yoda, he was told he requires no more training. Luke, being a failure, took that mean he was a Jedi. Yoda laughed. He could tell Luke the truth that he was expelled, but that just wasn't part of the Yoda/Kenobi training method. So they told him he must go confront Vader. Luke either kills Vader (win) or Vader kills Luke and stops the horror of yet another Skywalker (win).
     
    Mace Windu's Cousin likes this.
  7. MisterJedi2002

    MisterJedi2002 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2017
    From what I realized in the movie ROTJ. Luke had left Dagobah some time ago, to think about Han's rescue.
     
  8. Nibelung

    Nibelung Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2017
    This is actually what Lucas wanted to happen after ESB. But Irvin Kershner talked him out of it, saying that Luke would focus on rescuing Han rather than going back to train with Yoda.

    Kershner saw Luke going off to save his friends as a sign of heroism as much as a flaw in his Jedi temperament - and Lucas came round to his way of thinking. One more indication that Yoda's old-school Jedi philosophy isn't all there is in heaven and earth.
     
    Kenneth Morgan and Iron_lord like this.
  9. StarGuppy

    StarGuppy Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Jul 27, 2017
    Sure, there could be an argument for Luke returning to Dagobah in ROTJ, but as much as that may have made sense and been interesting to watch, from a filmmaking standpoint it would have been repetitive. ROTJ was to wrap up the trilogy, and drawing out the training would have made it difficult to fit everything else that had to come about in the movie. It's not like this was going to be a Peter Jackson film where one story could just be dragged on indefinitely. George had a concise story to tell and had to fit it within the confines of budget and the amount of films he had set up.
    The way it turned out, Luke's going to save Han and then facing off against Vader and the Emperor was the final lesson he needed, and Yoda said as much (about the latter part). This was a very smooth and proper way to streamline that part of Luke's story. It also gives Yoda a graceful exit from the picture (like Ben in ANH), with Luke completing the journey on his own (even though, as Obi-Wan said, "Yoda and I will always be with you.")
    There's a lot of things I'd like to see played out more on film, but under the circumstances I'd say it was managed rather beautifully.
     
    Obi-John Kenobi likes this.
  10. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    His training did last to RoTJ. Facing Vader, overcoming his fear and refusing to kill his own father was the final part of the training. Remember Yoda's dying words? Luke cannot be considered a Jedi until he faced his father.
     
    Erkan12 likes this.
  11. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    What if instead of the Act 1 of RotJ we saw, we got:

    The scenes keep cutting back and forth between
    Luke on Dagobah,
    Vader/Emperor on Death Star 2
    The gang sans Luke doing their thing at Jabba's.


    Vader’s shuttle arrives at the Death Star 2.
    -
    Luke finishes some physical training on Dagobah and asks Yoda “Is Darth Vader my father?”
    -
    Vader exits the shuttle to motivate the Death Star crew.
    -
    Yoda tells Luke “your father he is” and gives him the “you were not ready” speech.


    R2-PO do their thing at Jabba's


    Luke finishes some physical training that segues into the "Vader seduced by the Emperor/Dark Side" talk with OB1.
    -
    Emperor arrives on Death Star
    -
    Luke says he feels cold and alone. Yoda tells him there is another.
    -
    Leia does her thing with Chewie
    -
    OB1 tells Luke that Leia is the other - his twin sister


    Leia gets discovered rescuing Han and sent to the Rancor.
    -
    Luke's physical training is interrupted with the vision of Leia in danger. He tells Yoda he's going to prep to help her, then pauses, turns to Yoda and says "No. Let's continue"
    -
    Leia kills the Rancor. Even uses a small lay up from the Force without realizing it (but the viewer gets it)
    -
    Emperor’s throne room. Vader turns to the Emperor, but the Emperor cuts him off. “Yes. I felt it too.”


    Yoda tells Luke his training will never be complete, but *his* time on Dagobah has come to an end. “So I am a Jedi”. Yoda laughs.
    -
    The Sarlacc scene. This is the first time we realize Lando is in disguise as he tells Han he's there to protect him. Han says he's recovered his sight completely (to show the passage of time). Han walks the plank as 3PO translates for Jabba "Solo. Continue smuggling for me as a life indebted slave or die." Han refuses and insults Jabba as only Han can. As Han is pushed toward the pit, Lando steps in, pushes the guard off the skiff and tosses Han his blaster.
    -
    Luke comes in to tell Yoda he's ready to leave but promises to come back once the war is won. There is a heroic Jedi presence to Luke. John Williams begins the heroic music lightly. Yoda announces his own time on Dagobah has ended as well (the quick cut back to the Sarlacc gives the impression Yoda is coming with Luke)
    -
    Heroic music is ramping up. Han, Lando and Chewie (HLC) are *killing* it over the Sarlacc. Fett arrives firing his distinctively green blaster bolts, causing HLC to lose momentum. The music is now a tense heroic theme instead of the uplifting one before. Leia gets free and makes her way to the barge deck.
    -
    Luke starts to leave Yoda’s tree claiming he must get to his friends as he senses their danger. OB1 tells Luke “No, they are doing their job so we can do ours.” Yoda tells Luke he must first confront Vader to complete his training. Luke says “I can’t kill my father.”
    -
    The Emperor tells Vader “Skywalker has grown strong. And vulnerable.”
    -
    Leia spots Fett getting the upperhand on HLC. She mans the barge cannon and fires at the airborne Fett. He flies toward the incoming fire and lands on the barge. Leia points it at Fett’s landing space, fires and then immediately jumps off the side and slides down the barge. Fett is propelled by the blast into the dunes. His rocket inoperable. HLC pick up Leia as they escape toward the Falcon. The heroic music crescendos back to full glory. When the peak volume hits, a green blaster bolt enters Solo’s back and exits his chest. The music goes silent as the camera closes in on Han’s face filled with fear.
    -
    Close up on Luke’s face filled with fear. An angry version of the heroic theme plays softly in the background. Luke turns to Yoda and begins “I need to help my friends. If I had gone sooner…” then notices Yoda looks weak and even smaller than usual. Yoda reminds Luke “your destiny lies with confronting your father.” Yoda gives the forever sleep speech and passes into the Force. The soft angry theme turns melancholy.

    At the Rebel rendezvous point, we witness a makeshift funeral for Han.
    -
    Vader interrupts the Emperor’s meeting. The Emperor tells his advisors “Leave us.” Vader begins “I request an absence to confront my son. If I had been allowed to pursue him directly after Bespin ..” The Emperor interrupts “patience.”
    -
    Cut to Tatooine at night with the Emperor’s “patience” still reverberating. A distant view of Jabba’s palace shows it is being lit up with green blaster fire. Lots of green light. As the camera gets closer, you hear screams. As the camera enters the palace, there are numerous dead bodies. As the camera turns a hallway, you see Fett firing his green blaster into the dark frantically. The camera moves closer to Fett’s helmet as it is suddenly illuminated with green and the sound of a lightsaber. The first time we ever see a green lightsaber is through the back and out the chest of Fett in the same entry-exit location of Han’s fatal shot. Fett collapses in a heap to reveal a dark hooded shadow behind him. The shadow turns and as the camera swings around you realize the hooded figure is moving toward a frightened Jabba while the scene fades to black to hear a disembodied Emperor’s voice “He will come to you.”
     
    Nibelung likes this.
  12. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    "In coming back to see Yoda, we have to figure out Luke’s training and the fact that he never finished his training, and that obviously now he’s got a big question he wants answered. There is a point where the hero has to be left alone on his own two feet without anybody there to help him. And you can sort of have him be in a different place or something, but at some point you have to say well now all the props have been taken away, and he has to face the evil monster alone. In this case, the scene establishes that the evil monster is actually his father, and he’s going to have to do it upon his own, and that he’s really not equipped to do it. That he was too impatient, he didn’t finish his studies, and now he’s going to be half trained to face a difficult physical and emotional challenge."

    --George Lucas, DVD Commentary, Star Wars: Return of the Jedi, 2004.

    "Even though at some point Yoda and Ben interfered, I eventually decided that they couldn’t connect physically with what Luke was doing. I felt that one of the major issues in the third film is that Luke is finally on his own and has to fight Vader and the Emperor by himself. If you get a sense that Yoda or Ben is there to help him or to somehow influence him, it diminishes the power of the scene."

    --George Lucas, Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays, 1997.


    It's much more engaging and more tense if Luke is the underdog, rather than being an equal like Yoda or Obi-wan.