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CT Luke's X-Wing pilot helmet - continuity error in ROTJ

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Lt. Hija, Jun 21, 2016.

  1. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    [​IMG]

    In ESB Luke arrived in Bespin and obviously left his X-Wing, his flight suit, and his helmet behind.

    Ultimately he ended up on an exterior weather antenna at the bottom of Cloud City with only the clothes he was wearing.

    I believe most of us assume that his X-Wing was impounded by the Galactic Empire and not used as an escape vehicle by one of Cloud City's citizens (unless Luke left the ignition keys).

    Yet, after having rescued Han, Chewie and Leia in ROJ we see him in another X-Wing Cockpit - wearing his same old and battered helmet.

    The unique scratchmarks (like the one at the bottom of the bird logo) and other details (like the handpainted yellow stripes at the front ridge of his helmet) clearly reveal it's still the same helmet, which just has gotten a few more scratches between the time it was left behind in Cloud City and worn again by Luke upon leaving Tatooine.

    What's this helmet's story we haven't heard, yet?
     
  2. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012

    I never made that assumption. Zahn's conjecture was that Artoo had spent so much time with the X-Wing that he'd molded its computer to his personality - which makes a bit more sense with them being together for 9 years than 5.


    Maybe Luke's X-wing was never actually captured by the Empire - allowing somebody to retrieve it? I wouldn't call that a continuity error - a helmet continuity error would be the helmet changing from one type to another mid-flight.
     
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  3. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    May 27, 1999
    FOUND: One pilot's helmet with Alliance insignia. Size compatible to most humans of average size for age 20-30 standard years old. Paint on outside scratched up, but in generally good condition. Found on landing platform on Cloud City, Bespin. Contact KM, Box 25, Holonet channel 73.

    TO: KM I think that might be my helmet. Can you send a photo? Signed, LS.
     
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  4. JQ_Ronan

    JQ_Ronan Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2016
    Maybe the Rebellion only likes to use battered helmets, and so the scratches are all the same because they just are made that way (e.g. like jeans that are sold with holes already in them). Sounds kind of petty, but the scratches might be considered a sort of intimidation, like displaying a sort of battle scar--it's just a use of theatricality and deception. Boba Fett seems to like his armor looking dented, and General Grievous kept his MagnaGuards' scratches to look more intimidating, so maybe the Rebels are doing something similar.
    Plus, it doesn't seem like this helmet's exactly like the previous one--the one on the left has something on the visor against Luke's nose, a microphone next to his mouth, and the black strap for the chin strap hidden beneath the white piece, unlike the helmet on the right. So it really seems like (if we're not considering this just a fluke in filmmaking) Luke has a new helmet that's just been painted with the same scratches as his previous one.
     
  5. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    [face_laugh]

    TO: KM Ignore that request of LS. Send me the photo instead. It's probably my helmet which I gave LS at an archeological excavation as a special gift for rescuing me. I can see he didn't take good care of it, I want it back! Signed, LO

    Definitely a story worthy of exploration for Episode VIII or IX. Looks like Luke somehow got the helmet from the same source Maz Kanata got the lightsaber from...;)

    Quite possible, but you'll notice it's exactly the same helmet with the same unique scratches and worn out spots, that's "one in a million".

    Obviously some helmet components have been changed, but the actual helmet itself is still the exact same.
     
  6. JQ_Ronan

    JQ_Ronan Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2016
    Sorry, I didn't make that super clear. I meant that the Rebels are making these helmets with the exact same scratches and worn out spots, like this is the "Classic Rebel Helmet w/ Scratches and Dents Model 4" that you can get at your local Rebellion convenience store. It's like how, if I bought 2 "Kylo Ren Helmets," I'd expect the same scratches and dents in both because they're the same model, but they're not the same helmet. (Obviously, this is just a desperate attempt of mine to maintain that this movie is flawless and that this question can be easily and logically answered--this might not be the most sound theory)


    You're right, but I'm saying it's the exact same model of helmet with the same scuffs and wear-down, but it just had some different attachments when Luke bought it this time than when he bought the other one.
     
  7. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    [​IMG]

    Of course and ultimately, in terms of continuity errors, the new X-Wing cockpit scene (apparently shot in post-production with Mark Hamill after the sandstorm scene had been deleted from the final cut) and Luke's (returned) helmet constituted the lesser of two evils.

    The sandstorm scene makes it abundantly clear, that Luke was only wearing his black dress and did not go into the Falcon to put on his X-Wing flight suit.

    On Dagobah we only see him in his black dress and unlike Nien Nunb in the Rebel briefing scene (who apparently just arrived, parked his B-Wing behind the Falcon and joined the briefing in his flight suit) Luke joined the briefing in his black dress, possibly suggesting that he never put his flight suit on (because it was either in the Falcon or left behind in the cave).

    Interestingly, the original planned scene following the sandstorm sequence would have featured the use of the newly built 4 foot X-wing fighter model (they hoped they could use for camera zoom-ins and which featured a Luke miniature that could have moved), mostly on display during the Magic of Myth traveling exhibit.
    Probably we would have just heard the voiceovers of Han and Leia and Luke's miniature reacting to these (while watching a VFX closeup).

    Nevertheless, the Luke miniature was wearing an orange flight suit and the markings on the 4' VFX model identified it as "Red Three", although the recycled flyby footage from ESB (planned for this scene early on) would have shown him to be "Red Five" instead.
     
  8. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    [​IMG]

    Here is a picture of the largest VFX X-Wing ever built for the ROJ Tatooine departure scene. According the to the S-foil markings Luke had become "Red Three".
     
  9. Darth DoJ

    Darth DoJ Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2016
    Simple explanation to this - We've seen Obiwan send his ship away to pretend that he was leaving the planet. Perhaps Luke had R2 program the X-wing's onboard computer and autopilot to fly to somewhere where he could retrieve it later, as he expected to be leaving with his friends and didn't want his ship taken in the mean time?
     
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  10. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    [face_thinking]

    We just see Luke and Artoo in Cloud City's corridors but no X-wing parked in the background, that's correct. Yet we have that report of the Imperial officer that apparently has seen Luke's X-Wing land and confirm that it's Skywalker who has emerged from it:

    IMPERIAL OFFICER
    Skywalker has just landed, my
    lord.

    Would he not have delivered a full report (to Vader!), had he also seen the X-Wing leave?
     
  11. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    I though that it was Obi-Wan's Astromech that was piloting his fighter away. I don't think autopilots are ever referred to.

    R2 clearly didn't leave with the X-wing, so that theory doesn't quite work.
     
  12. Phobosian

    Phobosian Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 14, 2017
    I've never heard of this scene?
     
  13. Django Fett

    Django Fett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2012
    ROTJ Deleted Scene : The Sandstorm



     
  14. MrMojoRisin

    MrMojoRisin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2005
    He went back and got it. Boom! Problem solved.
     
  15. Dread Pirate Roberts

    Dread Pirate Roberts Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2017
    Man, those siblings sure kiss a lot
     
  16. StartCenterEnd

    StartCenterEnd Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 2, 2006
    Good question!

    I think we have to wonder what the situation in cloud city was like after Lando and company bolted. Obviously many people evacuated thanks to Lando's warning on the intercom but did Lobot stay and lead an underground resistance or something (kinda like the Naboo who stayed behind after the Queen left in TPM)? If so this resistance movement could have reclaimed many of the rebels and Lando's artifacts and got it back to Luke and the Rebellion.

    Going by the ROTJ celebration montage, the people of Cloud City rally and overthrow the empire there. I read the three Aftermath novels but can't remember if it talks about Bespin at all.
     
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  17. Phobosian

    Phobosian Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 14, 2017
    I've seen the Bluray sandstorm scene, but I was actually wondering about the scene Lt. Hija mentioned using the 4-footer X-wing model. How would that fit with the live-action footage?
     
  18. BattleDroid1138

    BattleDroid1138 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2000
    Is it possible that Luke changed into his Bespin fatigues in the Falcon soon after landing on Cloud City?
     
  19. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Phobosian

    Probably my bad. I was merely bringing up the scene that never was (footage featuring the 4' X-wing) because of the obvious inconsistency with the fuselage stripes (unless they would have dumped the recycled scene from ESB, had they used the 4-footer).

    Anyway, my point was that the first scene shot for ROJ (the sandstorm scene) never suggested that Luke put his flight suit on, had it remained in the final film both the (deleted) 4-footer scene and the one that ended up in the final film (cockpit footage) would have constituted some kind of continuity error.
     
  20. Phobosian

    Phobosian Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 14, 2017
    Lt. Hija
    Still unsure what you mean by "the scene that never was". I never heard of any deleted VFX scene that took place after the sandstorm. Care to provide more details?
     
  21. Bob the X-Winger

    Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 8, 2016
    He might have had a fair few spare helmets.
     
  22. Django Fett

    Django Fett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Phobosian they aren't just the BluRay deleted scenes, both have been re-edited in an attempt to get a near complete finish. But I posted them because you see Luke entering his X-Wing in his black Jedi outfit. It's interesting that Jedi don't wear spacesuits when piloting one man craft, apart from the reshot Tatooine exit.
     
  23. ZodaEX

    ZodaEX Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2015

    How many Jedi exactly did we see in the classic trilogy that don't wear spacesuits when piloting a one man aircraft? I doubt that you really have enough information there to say as a blanket rule that Jedi don't do that.
     
  24. Django Fett

    Django Fett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2012


    Seeing as we don't see any Jedi Knights piloting and ships in the CT i'd say it was pretty obvious I was referring to the saga as a whole.
     
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  25. Bob the X-Winger

    Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Hey guys Luke had more than one helmet in the back of the X-Wing or maybe in the glove compartment.