mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by the_homeless_jedi, Jun 15, 2002.

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  1. Oakessteve Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 9, 1999
    star 6
    Wait until Episode III's out before you start getting smug, homeless_jedi.
  2. Vader-Hater Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2002
    I think that Mace's being a traitor is a definite possibility. I had thought about it before, but I left that theory for a while I guess because so many fans are against it.

    One point: if you're going to believe that Mace IS a traitor, then you should probably also just accept that Palpatine IS Sidious. Why? Because such a huge part of the argument of their being two different people is the assumption that all those top Jedi would certainly sense a Sith Lord in their presence, especially after spending so much time with him. So if Mace is such a bad guy, and Yoda can't still clearly see it, then it's also most reasonable to say that they wouldn't be able to sense that Palpatine is Sidious either.

    Hey, I don't know if anyone would like to see either Mace being a traitor or Palpatine not being Sidious more than me. But these are just things to consider, that's all.

    That was a good point I read a few minutes ago that I hadn't thought about. It's Dooku's whole thing about Windu being "worthy of recognition in the ARCHIVES of the Jedi Order." Could that really be just a simple coincidence from lame script-writing?

    I just don't know! I'M SO CONFUSED!
  3. doublejointed Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 1
    I feel that Yoda does seem to look at Mace with looks of concern or doubt, but there is still absolutely no proof to back the theory outside of speculation

    speculation

    speculation

    speculation
  4. hippie1kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 4
    One question I have with the Mace=traitor question is, Why?

    Wouldn't the story be more poignant and interesting if the Jedi (and by extension the Republic) fall due to their arrogance and failure in properly training Anakin? Having somebody turn out to be a traitor just seems a little deus ex machina to me. There is really no reason for it other than for the sake of putting a twist in the movi.

    I guess if someone can explain why a traitor is necassary or useful to the plot (or at least interesting) I might buy into it.

    At least the Sid =/= Palp crowd lists some reasons why they feel it is a required twist to answer some questions.
  5. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    "This is conclusive proof."

    I'll get back to you when I stop laughing.
  6. CarbonKnight Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2002
    star 4
    I actually like this idea of Mace being the traitor. It makes alot of sense in many ways.

    Lucas and Jackson claim that the purple lightsaber was given because Jackson liked the color. Well, what if it's the color blue merging into red? RED + BLUE = Purple

    Plus, this twist would make Episode 3 really cool.

    Unlikely of course, but really cool.

    Mace = Spiked Weapon
    Mace is also Bald like Maul and Vader, and the Emperor

    Plus, if he's so good why isn't he a ghost in Episode 6, huh?? Case closed.


  7. ksid Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2002
    star 4
    doublej Go check out AOTC again.

    Hippie This is not the forum to discuss Ep III speculation.



    "Nothing will be as it seems in this trilogy - paraphrasing Lucas"
  8. varza Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2002
    star 4
    um carbon... if mace showed up in 6 would all the jedi show up in 6? the only ones that showed were ones who were connected in some way directly with Luke-his father, his first teacher and his 2nd teacher. If this other guy showed luke would probably wonder who the heck he was.

    Mace isn't a traitor-if anything I think he concerned about the council. He isn't the one that ordered the clone army to be taken to the planet and gave approval for Mace to take the remaining jedi. um, he was the one who mentioned to Yoda about speaking to the council about stepping down because they seemed to be loosing their mental abilities-or something along that lines-and Yoda said no.

    hey wait a second-Yoda is the traitor. He didn't kill dooku when he had the chance. he ordered the army to be put into service... oh my... ;)
  9. homeless_jedi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 4
    I had to bring this up..because people are seeing the film..more and more ..now that it is on dvd....and yet my theory still holds water....i admit..my first post was ..very crude? limited? yes..but if you see some of my other ones thy actually makes..sense...this is not a race issue..im not saying mace is a traitor because he is black..no..but some of you had to bring that up before..along the line..of reason...but reading the recent..traitor threads..and how people are finally realizing this..it actually almost..makes this theory..true..how can so many people be so wrong? they cant..i saw the films..many times in the movies like i said before..and i noticed it right away..hey i could be wrong..somewhere along the line..but my isntics never failed..
    this is why im back..and back to stay!
  10. Jake_Barnes Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 4
    I have never read anything in this thread that would pass even an all-encompassing definition of the word "proof." It makes me wish we could "un-up" threads.

  11. mi6agent56 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2002
    For Lucas to make Mace a traitor would kinda damper Sam Jackson's desire of "dying honorably" in Episode III. By turning traitor, he would deprive the fans of their like for the character, as they would probably be mad at his treachery, and then, when he is to be killed, I mean the death is meaningless, or pretty dishonorable. Of course, he could see the error of his ways, turn, and then die honorably, but I think once you betray someone/something, it's hard to repent. Also, if the acting of Sam Jackson is indicitive of him being a traitor, just think BLUE.
  12. homeless_jedi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 4
    george lucas once said that "the jedi crumble from within"

    that has to mean that someone in the jedi a very powerful jedi..that no one can suspect to be a traitor...is..

    sure we all know anakin and dooku is a traitor..to know that..it dont take a genius. its obivious..but in my experience..on facial expressions and movement..im sure..a 100% that mace is a traitor..everytime i watch the film..im convinced. somehow i get the feeling he was working with dooku..but dooku betrayed him..hence the line...." a mention in the jedi archives" or something like that..dooku knows that he cant reveal mace's true identity because mace will kill him..so he is scared of letting anyone else know...

    also. sam jackson always wanted to fight with yoda. and i think he will get his wish in ep3.when yoda realizes that mace is working with a sith..to bring down the jedi..because of lack of faith.. " we should inform the senate of our dimished ability to use the force" somewhat in that line..

    and then yoda says" only a sith would know of that"

    that makes ..windu the sith..and notice how yoda looks at him..when he says that to him.in the chair..he wonders about mace..

    i believe that is why mace was created..just to serve as the traitor..there are two..leaders in the jedi council..yoda and mace.who do you think will betray who?

    others things i have mentioned..mace's lightsaber is purple..and it looks like a sith's saber..almost like maul's..

    mace knew that dooku had a great army..and he took all the jedi there on a suicide mission..it was a trap. for the rest of the jedi..but dooku and mace made it look so real..like they were actually at war with eachother..but notice how he doesnt kill him? and when mace kills jango..dooku is way..way surprised..like saying "hey your on my side you idiot"

    one more thing. in the begginning of the film..mace stands up for dooku..refuses to make him look bad and defends him all the time..
    and when obi wan finds that the bounty hunter is the clone..and reports to yoda..notice how mace all the sudden walks in and interrupts "no, no one ordered the creation of those clones" ..it is almost like he is scared of talking about it..and changes the subject..immediately..

    his fighting style is that of a sith..

    well..i dont think..this could be fact..or proof..and i said before..im not saying that this proof..is a 100% fact..it depends on who you are and what you believe.
  13. homeless_jedi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 4
    george lucas once said that "the jedi crumble from within"

    that has to mean that someone in the jedi a very powerful jedi..that no one can suspect to be a traitor...is..

    sure we all know anakin and dooku is a traitor..to know that..it dont take a genius. its obivious..but in my experience..on facial expressions and movement..im sure..a 100% that mace is a traitor..everytime i watch the film..im convinced. somehow i get the feeling he was working with dooku..but dooku betrayed him..hence the line...." a mention in the jedi archives" or something like that..dooku knows that he cant reveal mace's true identity because mace will kill him..so he is scared of letting anyone else know...

    also. sam jackson always wanted to fight with yoda. and i think he will get his wish in ep3.when yoda realizes that mace is working with a sith..to bring down the jedi..because of lack of faith.. " we should inform the senate of our dimished ability to use the force" somewhat in that line..

    and then yoda says" only a sith would know of that"

    that makes ..windu the sith..and notice how yoda looks at him..when he says that to him.in the chair..he wonders about mace..

    i believe that is why mace was created..just to serve as the traitor..there are two..leaders in the jedi council..yoda and mace.who do you think will betray who?

    others things i have mentioned..mace's lightsaber is purple..and it looks like a sith's saber..almost like maul's..

    mace knew that dooku had a great army..and he took all the jedi there on a suicide mission..it was a trap. for the rest of the jedi..but dooku and mace made it look so real..like they were actually at war with eachother..but notice how he doesnt kill him? and when mace kills jango..dooku is way..way surprised..like saying "hey your on my side you idiot"

    one more thing. in the begginning of the film..mace stands up for dooku..refuses to make him look bad and defends him all the time..
    and when obi wan finds that the bounty hunter is the clone..and reports to yoda..notice how mace all the sudden walks in and interrupts "no, no one ordered the creation of those clones" ..it is almost like he is scared of talking about it..and changes the subject..immediately..

    his fighting style is that of a sith..

    well..i dont think..this could be fact..or proof..and i said before..im not saying that this proof..is a 100% fact..it depends on who you are and what you believe.
  14. homeless_jedi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 4
    george lucas once said that "the jedi crumble from within"

    that has to mean that someone in the jedi a very powerful jedi..that no one can suspect to be a traitor...is..

    sure we all know anakin and dooku is a traitor..to know that..it dont take a genius. its obivious..but in my experience..on facial expressions and movement..im sure..a 100% that mace is a traitor..everytime i watch the film..im convinced. somehow i get the feeling he was working with dooku..but dooku betrayed him..hence the line...." a mention in the jedi archives" or something like that..dooku knows that he cant reveal mace's true identity because mace will kill him..so he is scared of letting anyone else know...

    also. sam jackson always wanted to fight with yoda. and i think he will get his wish in ep3.when yoda realizes that mace is working with a sith..to bring down the jedi..because of lack of faith.. " we should inform the senate of our dimished ability to use the force" somewhat in that line..

    and then yoda says" only a sith would know of that"

    that makes ..windu the sith..and notice how yoda looks at him..when he says that to him.in the chair..he wonders about mace..

    i believe that is why mace was created..just to serve as the traitor..there are two..leaders in the jedi council..yoda and mace.who do you think will betray who?

    others things i have mentioned..mace's lightsaber is purple..and it looks like a sith's saber..almost like maul's..

    mace knew that dooku had a great army..and he took all the jedi there on a suicide mission..it was a trap. for the rest of the jedi..but dooku and mace made it look so real..like they were actually at war with eachother..but notice how he doesnt kill him? and when mace kills jango..dooku is way..way surprised..like saying "hey your on my side you idiot"

    one more thing. in the begginning of the film..mace stands up for dooku..refuses to make him look bad and defends him all the time..
    and when obi wan finds that the bounty hunter is the clone..and reports to yoda..notice how mace all the sudden walks in and interrupts "no, no one ordered the creation of those clones" ..it is almost like he is scared of talking about it..and changes the subject..immediately..

    his fighting style is that of a sith..

    well..i dont think..this could be fact..or proof..and i said before..im not saying that this proof..is a 100% fact..it depends on who you are and what you believe.
  15. homeless_jedi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 4
    george lucas once said that "the jedi crumble from within"

    that has to mean that someone in the jedi a very powerful jedi..that no one can suspect to be a traitor...is..

    sure we all know anakin and dooku is a traitor..to know that..it dont take a genius. its obivious..but in my experience..on facial expressions and movement..im sure..a 100% that mace is a traitor..everytime i watch the film..im convinced. somehow i get the feeling he was working with dooku..but dooku betrayed him..hence the line...." a mention in the jedi archives" or something like that..dooku knows that he cant reveal mace's true identity because mace will kill him..so he is scared of letting anyone else know...

    also. sam jackson always wanted to fight with yoda. and i think he will get his wish in ep3.when yoda realizes that mace is working with a sith..to bring down the jedi..because of lack of faith.. " we should inform the senate of our dimished ability to use the force" somewhat in that line..

    and then yoda says" only a sith would know of that"

    that makes ..windu the sith..and notice how yoda looks at him..when he says that to him.in the chair..he wonders about mace..

    i believe that is why mace was created..just to serve as the traitor..there are two..leaders in the jedi council..yoda and mace.who do you think will betray who?

    others things i have mentioned..mace's lightsaber is purple..and it looks like a sith's saber..almost like maul's..

    mace knew that dooku had a great army..and he took all the jedi there on a suicide mission..it was a trap. for the rest of the jedi..but dooku and mace made it look so real..like they were actually at war with eachother..but notice how he doesnt kill him? and when mace kills jango..dooku is way..way surprised..like saying "hey your on my side you idiot"

    one more thing. in the begginning of the film..mace stands up for dooku..refuses to make him look bad and defends him all the time..
    and when obi wan finds that the bounty hunter is the clone..and reports to yoda..notice how mace all the sudden walks in and interrupts "no, no one ordered the creation of those clones" ..it is almost like he is scared of talking about it..and changes the subject..immediately..

    his fighting style is that of a sith..

    well..i dont think..this could be fact..or proof..and i said before..im not saying that this proof..is a 100% fact..it depends on who you are and what you believe.
  16. homeless_jedi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 4
    george lucas once said that "the jedi crumble from within"

    that has to mean that someone in the jedi a very powerful jedi..that no one can suspect to be a traitor...is..

    sure we all know anakin and dooku is a traitor..to know that..it dont take a genius. its obivious..but in my experience..on facial expressions and movement..im sure..a 100% that mace is a traitor..everytime i watch the film..im convinced. somehow i get the feeling he was working with dooku..but dooku betrayed him..hence the line...." a mention in the jedi archives" or something like that..dooku knows that he cant reveal mace's true identity because mace will kill him..so he is scared of letting anyone else know...

    also. sam jackson always wanted to fight with yoda. and i think he will get his wish in ep3.when yoda realizes that mace is working with a sith..to bring down the jedi..because of lack of faith.. " we should inform the senate of our dimished ability to use the force" somewhat in that line..

    and then yoda says" only a sith would know of that"

    that makes ..windu the sith..and notice how yoda looks at him..when he says that to him.in the chair..he wonders about mace..

    i believe that is why mace was created..just to serve as the traitor..there are two..leaders in the jedi council..yoda and mace.who do you think will betray who?

    others things i have mentioned..mace's lightsaber is purple..and it looks like a sith's saber..almost like maul's..

    mace knew that dooku had a great army..and he took all the jedi there on a suicide mission..it was a trap. for the rest of the jedi..but dooku and mace made it look so real..like they were actually at war with eachother..but notice how he doesnt kill him? and when mace kills jango..dooku is way..way surprised..like saying "hey your on my side you idiot"

    one more thing. in the begginning of the film..mace stands up for dooku..refuses to make him look bad and defends him all the time..
    and when obi wan finds that the bounty hunter is the clone..and reports to yoda..notice how mace all the sudden walks in and interrupts "no, no one ordered the creation of those clones" ..it is almost like he is scared of talking about it..and changes the subject..immediately..

    his fighting style is that of a sith..

    well..i dont think..this could be fact..or proof..and i said before..im not saying that this proof..is a 100% fact..it depends on who you are and what you believe.
  17. homeless_jedi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 4
    george lucas once said that "the jedi crumble from within"

    that has to mean that someone in the jedi a very powerful jedi..that no one can suspect to be a traitor...is..

    sure we all know anakin and dooku is a traitor..to know that..it dont take a genius. its obivious..but in my experience..on facial expressions and movement..im sure..a 100% that mace is a traitor..everytime i watch the film..im convinced. somehow i get the feeling he was working with dooku..but dooku betrayed him..hence the line...." a mention in the jedi archives" or something like that..dooku knows that he cant reveal mace's true identity because mace will kill him..so he is scared of letting anyone else know...

    also. sam jackson always wanted to fight with yoda. and i think he will get his wish in ep3.when yoda realizes that mace is working with a sith..to bring down the jedi..because of lack of faith.. " we should inform the senate of our dimished ability to use the force" somewhat in that line..

    and then yoda says" only a sith would know of that"

    that makes ..windu the sith..and notice how yoda looks at him..when he says that to him.in the chair..he wonders about mace..

    i believe that is why mace was created..just to serve as the traitor..there are two..leaders in the jedi council..yoda and mace.who do you think will betray who?

    others things i have mentioned..mace's lightsaber is purple..and it looks like a sith's saber..almost like maul's..

    mace knew that dooku had a great army..and he took all the jedi there on a suicide mission..it was a trap. for the rest of the jedi..but dooku and mace made it look so real..like they were actually at war with eachother..but notice how he doesnt kill him? and when mace kills jango..dooku is way..way surprised..like saying "hey your on my side you idiot"

    one more thing. in the begginning of the film..mace stands up for dooku..refuses to make him look bad and defends him all the time..
    and when obi wan finds that the bounty hunter is the clone..and reports to yoda..notice how mace all the sudden walks in and interrupts "no, no one ordered the creation of those clones" ..it is almost like he is scared of talking about it..and changes the subject..immediately..

    his fighting style is that of a sith..

    well..i dont think..this could be fact..or proof..and i said before..im not saying that this proof..is a 100% fact..it depends on who you are and what you believe.
  18. Legolas_Greenleaf_ Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2002
    star 3
    Mods, lock this, it belongs in the 3SA froum.....
  19. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    Why? There aren't any Episode 3 spoilers in it. It's based off of information from AOTC, so I don't see why it shouldn't be in this forum.
  20. homeless_jedi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 4
    this is the best thread ever :D
  21. Mr_Mwindu Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 4
    might be a good thread, but mace still aint no traitor
  22. effortless_skill Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2003
    star 4
    like i wrote earlier why is maced always called a traitor its good to see not all of the fans are blind mace is noble to the first degree .

    and homless jedi you r saying that because mace windu has a purple lightsaber he is a traitor is the most absurd thing i have ever heard
  23. mjerome3 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2000
    star 6
    Mace has a different color lightsaber because Sam Jackson asked George Lucas for that color. blue plus red equals purple....
  24. Devilanse Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 5
    I haven't seen any proof. Just a few subtle clues. The biggest standout that I saw to support the Mace-traitor theory is the look he gives Dooku just after he bottlecaps Jango.

    The look could be construed 2 ways.

    If Mace is not the traitor, then the look could be a "See here? I just took out your golden boy..ready to give up, yet?"-look.

    If Mace is a traitor, then perhaps the glance was intended as a "Never send a bounty hunter to do a Jedi's job." look.

    Personally, I don't think mace will turn out to be the bad egg.
  25. JediNdaCity Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2002
    star 3
    I think one of the ways this might be figured out is if we look to the Lando plotline for answers. GL said the trilogies parallel each other in certain ways. I'm black so I'm not making this a race issue but it could be relevant to the storyline to connect with what happened with Lando. Lando betrayed Han , but was given a second chance to do right and he did. What if this was a similar situation with Mace, only Mace sadly doesn't get that second chance. So we kinda see it through Lando. I always thought how ahead of his time GL was to make a black guy the general of an army and fly the FALCON AND blow up the second Death Star! Show me another film where a black guy had that much dap and he LIVED! It was very progressive for 1983. If my theory on Mace holds true, then it would confirm why Lucas put Lando in such a prominent position. I believe the answer lies in the Lando storyline. Another point that has nothing to do with this but I just thought of it. What if that wasn't Jango who was killed by Mace but a clone? It's possible. What if there is a twist in the Jango/Boba storyline. Just my two pennies.
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