mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by the_homeless_jedi, Jun 15, 2002.

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  1. vikingjedi1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 2
    Here's something to think about:

    Boba Fett is one of the most popular characters in the OT. Now why would Lucas have Mace chop off Jango's head if they werent going to make Mace a bad guy?

    Boba has to get revenge against Mace for killing his father. If Boba killed Mace and Mace was still a good guy, then it wouldnt go over as well as if Boba killed Mace after it had been revealed that Mace was a traitor.

  2. homeless_jedi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 4
    Viking..you are correct..sir. thats enough proof to have mace windu sent to the kessel mines! so in conclusion..we all cant deny that mace is a traitor. I mean come on!!..the proof is in front of your face, it's like going to court and the evidence is all there yet..they let him go..like the oj simpson case for example.
  3. effortless_skill Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2003
    star 4
    yeah yeah your wrong come 2005
  4. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    I have a theory here:

    We already know from Shatterpoint that Mace understands the importance of Anakin surviving, "no matter how many Jedi are killed, no matter how dark it gets." I don't care if you like the EU or not, it's inevitable that other Jedi will realize this in Episode III as well, once Sidious/Palptine is revealed as the Sith.

    So -- in Episode III, Mace will be viewed as a traitor.

    Mace will give his life to save Anakin after Anakin has turned to the dark side. Everyone will view him as a traitor, but really he isn't.

    By saving the Chosen One, he is allowing Anakin more time to fulfill the prophecy and bring balance to the Force. This will in turn save the entire galaxy.

    So in retrospect, what will look like a traitorous action will actually be one of the most noble and heroic actions in the Star Wars saga. :)
  5. effortless_skill Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2003
    star 4
    ousley you read shatterpoint so you already know that mace can never be a traitor never,he is the most noble jedi i have seen .come 2005 the haters will be silenced and if all the haters ever read shatterpoint the will hate the great master no more
  6. Galacticus90210 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2003
    star 1
    Windu is NOT the traitor. His lightsaber is different because Samuel L. Jackson's favorite color is purple. The part about "he erased the archives" is just crap. Any Jedi could have done that, and there are thousands of Jedi Knights. He is with Yoda all the time. So are alot of other Jedi. He sent Anakin to protect Padme because Palpatine told him to. Mace also can't be the traitor if he's going to "go out in a blaze of glory," as stated by Samuel L. Jackson. As I said before, Mace Windu is NOT the traitor.
  7. effortless_skill Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2003
    star 4
  8. Devilanse Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 5
    come 2005 the haters will be silenced and if all the haters ever read shatterpoint the will hate the great master no more

    Please...stop with all the "hater" talk. You hate the idea that Mace could be a traitor...doesn't that make you a "hater", too?
  9. MasterP Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2003
    star 7
    There is NO proof that Mace is a Jedi Traitor. Mace is a good Jedi, not bad. I don't get why people think he is bad.

    Heck...Sidious might be good. ( sarcasm )
  10. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    Yes, and there is NO proof that Anakin isn't the Chosen One, yet you seem bent on believing that he isn't, even though Lucas has said multiple times that he is.
  11. MasterP Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2003
    star 7
    well...we have our differences.
  12. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    All of the points made by the_homeless_jedi are idiotic, however these are my two favorites:

    "7. he is the one who erased the archives. only a jedi could do that."

    And Mace is the only Jedi? You don't find it more likely that it could be, say... Anakin the jedi we KNOW for a fact turns evil and IS in league with Sidious.

    "8. he is spying on yoda. notice how he is always around him. watching him. cautiously."

    So does that mean YOU are spying on your school chums and family members? You're always around them.
  13. Galacticus90210 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2003
    star 1
    Hah. I like how he has "a different lightsaber." I get alot of joy out of making fun of threads like this--When people think that they have things all figured out.
  14. Mr_Mwindu Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 4
    mace is no traitor, and im still waiting to see the proof that the title of this ridiculous thread promised
  15. Grilled-Sarlacc Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2001
    star 6
    There is none. Just fanboy wishes.
  16. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    *blinks*

    I have to admit I'm confused. You ignore the fact that all previous evidence has been completely blasted away. Then you ignore ousley's theory, which is the most plausible take on the Mace thing I've seen (despite its flaws). Instead, you claim that the arugment put forth by Viking is the ultimate proof.

    Ignoring the fact, that as Viking himself said its just postulation. And the posutlation itself ignoring the fact that Obi-wan cut someone in half and he was still a good guy. And further ignoring the fact that Lucas himself said Boba's role in EPIII would be a) no bigger than his one in AOTC and b)that he would be to small to fit into any Mandalorian armor. Meaning he probably won't be killing Mace anyway.
  17. Ian_McDiarmid-TheGod Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2003
    This thread is most amusing. What happens when Episode 3 is released and Mace is shown not to be a traitor?
  18. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    Then you ignore ousley's theory, which is the most plausible take on the Mace thing I've seen (despite its flaws).

    I'm glad you like my theory. :) Though, if you don't mind me asking, what are the flaws? I'm just asking because I want my theory to not have any holes in it. ;)
  19. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Ousley, mostly because I'm having problems conceptualizing how it would work. Because I cna only see us hardcore fans understanding (and loving) that, unless its spelled out for the audience. But I'm afraid if you come right out and say it, removes all the tension/danger from the SW films because it looks like everyone knows what's going to happen and they're just waiting for the blocks to fall in place.

    But maybe if someone just explained why Mace did what he did, people would be smart enough to see how wise it was by ROTJ. That would even be added tension to the movie. What do you think about striking a balance between those two things?
  20. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    Well, I'm thinking that Anakin will have turned and other Jedi will go after him. Mace could start yelling about "ANAKIN IS THE CHOSEN ONE! HE WILL BRING BALANCE: IT'S MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANY OF US HERE!" and the other Jedi just don't care, so Mace helps Anakin fend them off and is killed in the process.

    Somehow Mace will have to verbally portray what he's doing and why he's doing it. Or instead of doing it in battle, he expresses this to the Council.

    Look at this from his private journal in Shatterpoint. It is set six months after Attack of the Clones, after his ex-apprentice, Depa Billaba has fallen out of the light side of the Force (in a sense; she hasn't turned to the dark side, more neutral) during her time on a mission to Haruun Kal, Mace's homeworld. He went to rescue her, and this is after they get back. Mace has been keeping a private journal the entire book for the Jedi Archives.

      Palpatine looked from Yoda to me, his face a mast of compassionate concern. "Who would have thought that fighting a war could have such a terrible effect on a Jedi? Even when we win," murmered. "Who would have thought such a thing?"

      "Yes," I could only agree. "Who would have thought it indeed?"

      "Wonder one must," Yoda said slowly, "if that might be the most important question of all..."

      There followed a long, uncomfortable silence, which Palpatine finally broke. "Ah, sadly, questions of philosophy must wait for peacetime. We must focus on winning this war."

      "That's what Deapa did," I said. "And look what it did to her."

      "Ah, but such a thing could never happen to -- say, for example -- you." Palpatine said warmly. His lips wore an enigmatic smile. "Could it?"

      I didn't tell him that it could. That it nearly had.

      I think about that a lot, these days. I think about Depa. About everything she said to me.

      And did to me.

      I think about the jungle.

      She was right about so many things.

      She was right about her Jedi of the Future. To win this war against the Separatists, we must abandon the very thing that makes us Jedi. Yes, we won on Haruun Kal -- because our enemy broke under the club of Kar Vastor's monstrous ruthlessness.

      Jedi are keepers of the peace. We are not soldiers.

      If we become soldiers, we are Jedi no more.

      Yet I do not despair.

      She was wrong about some things too.

      You see, she lost fighting someone else's war. She was fighting the wrong enemy.

      The Separatists are not the true enemies of the Jedi. They are the enemies of the Republic. It is the Republic which will stand or fall in the battles of the Clone War.

      Even the reborn Sith are not our enemy. Not really.

      Our enemy is power mistaken for justice.

      Our enemy is the desperation that justifies atrocity.

      The Jedi's true enemy is the jungle.

      Our enemy is the darkness itself: the strangling cloud of fear and despair and anguish that this war brings with it. That is poisoning our galaxy. This is why my dreams of Geonosis are different now.

      In my dreams, I still do everything right.

      But I do in my dreams exactly what I did in that arena.

      If the prophecies are true -- if Anakin Skywalker truly is the Chosen One, who will bring balance to the Force -- then he is hte most important being alive today. And he is alive today because my Jedi instincts were working just fine.

      Because my mistake on Geonosis wasn't a mistake at all.

      If I had done as Depa said I should have -- if I had won the Clone War with a baradium bomb on Geonosis -- I would have lost the real war. The Jedi's war.

      Anakin Skywalker may be the shatterpoint of our war against the jungle.

      And if he is -- if Anakin is the being born to win that war -- it does not matter if every Jedi in the galaxy dies.

      As long as Anakin lives, we have hope. No matter how dark it gets, or how lost our cause may seem.

      He is our new hope for a Jedi future.

      May the Force be with us all.


    This is one of the reas
  21. Mr_Sith Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2003
    star 5
    GL isn't making SW to please just US Fans. He makes it to please the WHOLE Audience which consists of every day people. SLJ has said that he will go down in a Blaze of Glory/not go out like a punk. How is he going to do that as a Traitor? The Formal Audience usually hates the Bad Guys. If Mace is a Traitor and he goes down in a Blaze of Glory then there is something totally screwed up.
  22. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    Did you take the time to read my whole post?

    I said that even without reading Shatterpoint or knowing it exists, the point can be portrayed on screen.

    As I said, Mace can try to get accross the point that Anakin is the only one that can win the war, and that Anakin is more important than the Jedi.

    He can point out that if Anakin really is the Chosen One, then Anakin is the one who will bring balance to the Force, not the rest of the Jedi.

    Even if the book didn't exist, the theory still makes sense. No, I'm not saying that's what we'll see in the movie, I'm presenting it as a theory.

    Who is to say that someone wouldn't have thought of this idea anyway? Instead of looking to the deeper meaning of my post, you concentrated on the fact that I posted an excerpt from the EU that supports the films.
  23. effortless_skill Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2003
    star 4
    blaze of glory it will be hasn't any one read rick's hyper space chat ? he says mace windu's scenes are unforgetable ,that almot made me cry cause mace windu's death has to special
  24. Mr_Sith Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2003
    star 5
    I know. I was just saying that Mace WONT be a Traitor.
  25. Devilanse Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 5
    What happens when Episode 3 is released and Mace is shown not to be a traitor?


    But but but but but but but....

    What if it shows that he is? If you think this thread is garbage, then why post? Adding little smart aleck comments won't make you right.

    Its a 2-way street here. Everyone is allowed to have their own crackpot theories if they want to. If you can't make simple honest discussion about it....don't post.

    Why can't Mace be the bad egg? George did promise a dazzling twist in the story centered around what could be a turncoat in the midst of the Jedi ranks.

    Could he have been talking about Dooku? Probably...but that doesn't make anyone else's ideas about the story any less valid than yours...unless you happen to have the completed EIII script in your hands at this moment.

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