mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by the_homeless_jedi, Jun 15, 2002.

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  1. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Well all we can do about this now is examine what we know for sure...

    George Lucas has always been very up front with his use of color in the SW movies, saying about the sabers specifically that he chose red for the Sith to symbolise their agressive nature, and blue for the Jedi to symbolise their calmer more symbiotic nature.

    Some would say the only reason Luke had a green saber in ROTJ was so that it could be seen against the blue sky of the Jabba sail barge sets, and obviously, this would make sense, but with the duality introduced by the Living and Unifying Force, the blue and green might signify a Jedi's leaning between these two extremes of thought.

    There are behind the scenes featurettes that have Sam Jackson casually asking Lucas what colors the Jedi Sabers are, Lucas tells him blue and green, he asks if he could have purple, and Lucas thinks about it for a second and says something like, 'maybe for you we could have Purple'. This would indicate that the color of Mace's blade was just a random "what the heck why not" kind of decision, something not thought of as any kind of deeper symbolism at the time.

    But then again, if there was one suprise the prequels could pull off, it would be this. The happenchance of Mace's apparent saber color choice could very well have been staged. Think about how downplayed Sammuel's role was in TPM. When Jackson was interviewed, he said he wanted to be in the SW prequels and that he would just be happy to be a faceless stormtrooper, I never bought that for a minute. Sure, Lucas casts someone of the magnitude of Sammuel Jackson, calls him a "background" kind of character, and then makes Mace Windu the head of the Jedi Council, on par with or even superior to Yoda? Hello! This has OMFG! revelation written all over it.

    [image=http://www.grilled-sarlacc.com/ep3/insider/2.jpg]

    The final question you have to ask yourself is, what is a 7 foot tall Wookie from Kashyyyk doing on Endor with a bunch of 4 foot tall Ewoks?

    It doesn't make sense, and if it doesn't make sense, you have to aqquit!

    LOOK AT THE SILLY LITTLE MONKEY!
  2. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    What????

    To comment on one part of the post, though, do you really think the green was symbolic of anything? It probably had the same amount of thought put into it as the Jackson purple lightsaber thing.

    Your explanation about showing the conflict between Living and Unifying force is most certainly wrong, though. Especially since ROTJ came out way before either concept even existed.

    I don't think Lucas will try to put any significance into the purple lightsaber at this point, but he might (as you say). Oh well, it'll be interested to see.
  3. TitaniumBender Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2003
    star 1
    Windu's lightsaber must represent his flaming homosexuality, not villany.
  4. SaeseeJim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2003
    star 4
    I didn't read all of the replies on this subject so I don't know if this idea has been used yet, but can you imagine if Mace Windu actually(not saying it is) was the traitor then Yoda finds out then Mace turns bad and huge duel errupts. Even huger than the Obi Wan, Qui Gon, and Darth Maul fight going on through out the entire Jedi Temple. Other Jedi are looking on saying what the heck is going on? The two leaders of the Council in an all out battle and then all the other Jedi that Mace practiced Vapaad with join Mace and start slaughtering all the other Jedi standing around. And eventually Yoda wins between him and Mace but realizes that he better get the heck out of there. I know this is very farfetched and is %100 made up by me in 5 minutes. but would that not be sweet or what? This is how Mace could die and this would explain the mystery of Kamino disappearing.
    Also remember sometimes the most unlikely people to do something like this might very well be that person knowing they would not be suspected. what do you think?


    Go-Mer-Tonic I love your Chewbacca defense.
    However I have another thing
    And I believe it goes a little bit like this.
    Bombs are flying, Jedi are dying, children are crying, Politicians are lying too(so what else is new). The Jedi are losing, the Emperor is winning. The whole Starwars Galaxy is going to Hell and how are you?....

    I'm super thanks for asking!!!!! All things considered I could be better I must say.....
  5. NeoBaggins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2003
    star 5
    Jabber Wocky
    Love the name by the way. That Acklay icon kinda resembles a Jabberwock.

    "Really??? I thought he just asked for a distinctive color so he could spot himself during battle scenes in the movie."

    Spot himself in battle the battle scenes? He has his own scenes. Thats not nessessary. He cant see that that is him cutting Fetts head off. He doesnt know that is himself leaping off the balcony after saying "This party is over" and "I dont think so" I dont think so.


    "The rest of your post is good, but it has an awfully conspiratorial bent to it. As if the best thing Smauel L. Jackson has to do with his time and career is to go out of his way ruining Star Wars for you. Come on now. . ."

    No. I like Jackson as Windu. I even love the bold move by Lucas to put him head of the council. Im glad to see him playing such an important role being an actor of color in a franchise this famous. Mace kicks! I am very happy and proud of this, sincerly.

    What you are reading into is my sourness in the loosness in which the purple saber was derived. Fans like myself have come to conclusions that there is a color code for the sabers. Each color can be broken down logically in conjunction to thier usage in the films. Until now. Lucas just says yes because Jackson, who is under the belief that sabers can be whatever color, asked for it. Now all of a sudden theres no code to the colors. Lucas even tried to explain this to Jackson and still caved in. Seems like he was intimidated or somethin. Maybe he was happy to have an a-class good actor and wanted to accomidate him. But dont compromise your fans needs for that. I bet Jackson would have just shrugged his shoulders and said "Yeah, o.k." if he couldnt have a purple saber no sweat.

    This is where the gift of imagination has to kick in. Just as some fans have used there imagination to fill voids in the saga, I have soothed my erkness for the purple saber by creativly justifying it to myself. I hear that his saber is "Electrium". Though I dont know what that means in the movie but It means this to me. The gem in his saber is blue. When the light filters through this "Electrium" hilt it appears to be purple when it hits the light. On the Balcony when he is deflected lasers before he jumps off, his saber is clearly blue until he lands.
  6. JediAl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2002
    star 2
    Oh come on!!! Mace Windu ? A traitor? He wouldn't have risked his ass on Geonosis if he were one....though at the same time, Lucas would be capable of something like that. Personally, I wouldn't believe it until I saw it....
  7. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    He's not a traitor. You really can't get much more simple than that.
  8. oLiquidRusho Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2002
    star 2
    Well I don't know about Mace being a traitor but judging from them shiny hands of his, I do know he's been using that new grainy moisturizer at Bath and Body Works. Those things are amazing.
  9. homeless_jedi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 4
    well I know my first post wasnt very convincing..it was late..and I was doing research for 2 entire weeks on this..but I'll lay out some good points again..just to freshen up things around here..


    1. red+blue= purple..meaning both sides. mace has a purple saber.

    2. mace's saber is half of darth maul's. it is basically a sith lightsaber. the design is sith.

    3. his jedi fighting style is obviuosly sith form.

    5. in the phantom menace he is the one who decides to agree to train anakin. but he firs said no, to throw everyone off!

    6. in AOTC he sends the queen away in order to have jar jar vote. obviously, he planned the entire operation.

    7. when obi wan askes him about master sifodyas and if the jedi council ordered the clones..he jumps and denies everything..changing the subject..while yoda watches him meticulously.

    8. only a jedi can erase the jedi archives. and dooku is not a jedi, hes a sith. note that dooku and mace used to work together and ordered the clones, but dooku left the jedi order and mace stayed behind to control everything and help sidious.

    9. mace denies dookus involvements..clearly he was working for him.

    10. only a sith would know of the jedi's weakness..and mace windu knows. "I think its time we inform the senate of our weakness"

    11. mace windu plans the fall of the jedi by sending them all in to the arena..knowing that they would all be trapped and killed in action. the jedi council already knew that dooku had a great army, yet mace decided it was ok to lead all the jedi into a battle? when obi wan had already reported that he had discovered the army.

    12. mace windu killed jango fett because he messed up..for one he didnt kill obiwan on kamino..then he let him learn too much..so jango had to be killed..because obiwan knew too much and that was jango's fault.

    13. yoda already suspects mace windu is loosing his faith for the jedi.. he sees how mace windu is turning to the dark side.

    14. mace windy erased the kamino files..because only a jedi council member could..and note dooku and sifodyas were not members of the jedi council, they were just jedi.

    15. and lastly, mace always wanted to fight yoda...and be a sith..and if you watched that special on tv not too long ago..sam jackson plays an evil sith..so he will finally get a chance to fight yoda, like he always wanted.



    discuss.

  10. ppal Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 1999
    star 1
    You know I really wish I could throw out what I know about episode III right here but I'm afraid I might be banned, so I will give you this one opportunity to check out the episode III spoilers thread and you will know if in fact there is a jedi traitor.
  11. TitaniumBender Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2003
    star 1
    No dude, all that crap means nhe's gay
  12. NeoBaggins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2003
    star 5
    Wow.

    Anyway. Mace's saber is NOT half of Mauls. Jackson was in a photo shoot for the TPM encyclopedia and was without his own personal saber at the time. They used the Maul piece wich was probably laying around at the time and means nothing. The saber he uses in EP2 is not the same desighn.
  13. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Still, the maul saber used in Mace Windu's production photos at the time of TPM reflect his saber at that time, it also had a purple blade. He gets a new purple one in AOTC. The Mace Windu toy lightsaber they make now is the one he had during the time of TPM, which has the half maul looking hilt.
  14. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    And here are the responses (same as always) that can quiet things down again:

    1. You can't prove the saber color has any significance (much like Luke's green saber in ROTJ). In fact, we know that it was given at the request of Jackson, not Lucas, and thus was never supposed to be a major part of the story. At best, this can only be used in support of more substantial evidence, which there isn't.

    2. As said before, that was only used for a photo shoot for a book. I think the actual films (AOTC) should take precedence over the shape of his hilt as seen in a "Making of" book or a toy.

    3. How is it "obviously" Sith form? If you're referring to Vapaad, it's been very clearly established in the EU as different from, though in some respects similar to Sith forms. And in AOTC, all he does is defelct a few blaster shots, then spin around and cut Jango's head off. After that, we saw him twirl ihs lightsaber once and charge into battle with the clones. We've seen Kenobi twirl his saber plenty of times (TPM, anyone???) and their is nothing especially Sith like about twirling around. So what's your point?

    5. Actually, you'll remember the entire Council voted for him to be trained, over the objections of both Yoda and Mace. So either they're both Sith or neither of them are.

    6. He sends the Queen away for her protection--per the instructions of the Chancellor. All this means is that he obeys Executive orders. Not really anything to be made of this.

    7. Isn't it equally possible that Yoda was just thinking about the information Obi-wan just gave them? Moreover, what did you expect Mace to do when Kenobi asked him a yes or no question? There wasn't much else to say, and I don't even see how you can use this as evidence.

    8. Only a Jedi can erase things from the Jedi archives, but it's not clear when the files were erased. It very well could've been erased whil Dooku was still a Jedi. Furthermore, everything you said in this point is just conjecture except for the first sentence. We don't "know" that Mace and Dooku worked together to order the clones, or that Mace stayed behind in the Order to be a mole. In fact, in all likelihood they didn't work together very often on anything, as Mace was a Council member and Dooku never was.

    9. No, that Ki Adi Mundi that denied Dooku's involvement. Mace just explaiend why Mundi felt that way.

    10. Our implies that its his weakness too. How would he not be aware of his own weakness? And if it's plausible that he wouldn't, as a Jedi, be aware of his own weakness, then how would Yoda know about it? Is Yoda a Sith too? Is the entire Jedi Order composed of secret Sith operatives just because they know of their own weakness? This is a poor argument.

    11. How was he to know that army was waiting right outside the Arena? There was no way to tell about that. And further, Yoda agreed to the plan too, so apparently he's a Sith as well.

    12. That's all stuff you just made up. The clear and immediate reason we have for Fett's death is that he was actively attacking Windu at the time. Self-defense is a much more simple and plausible reason than that story you're spinning.

    13. Where does Yoda say this? He doesn't. This is entirely conjecture and subjective interpretation.

    14. When was it said that only Council members could erase files? In fact, that's probably wrong. Because if you'll remember, the Head Librarian wasn't on the Council either, and it doens't make sense that she wouldn't have controls over the files if she was Chief Librarian. Further, even if we confine it to the Council, it still leaves Mundi, who was the first person to take up for Dooku.

    15. There is no evidence of this anywhere in the films. And there hasn't been any TV special. What are you talking about? This is just a plain lie.

    In conclusion, you have no evidence. At best, its just a bunch of very peculiar and non-standard interpretations of things from the films. Other times, its things that you don't even remember correctly from them. The vast majority of it is just conjectu
  15. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    There is just as much "evidence" that he is a traitor as there is that he is not.
  16. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    But when accusing someoen of beign a traitor, the burden of proof is most definetly on the accuser, not the accused.

    And as it were, there's far more evidence that he's an honest, legitimate Jedi (that can be supported by most everything in all films and EU) than there is that he's a traitor.
  17. DamonD Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2002
    star 6
    I gotta agree with Jabba-wocky on this.
    Innocent until proven guilty, that's the idea. Mace is in the clear so far.
  18. SkottASkywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    Master Windu is no traitor. It's not in his character. ;)
  19. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    1. red+blue= purple..meaning both sides. mace has a purple saber.

    Sam Jackson asked for a purple saber. It is no significance.

    2. mace's saber is half of darth maul's.

    So is everyone else's lightsaber that only has one blade.

    3. his jedi fighting style is obviuosly sith form.

    No, its Jedi Form VII, also known as Vaapad.

    5. in the phantom menace he is the one who decides to agree to train anakin. but he firs said no, to throw everyone off!

    Actually I think he realized that maybe Qui-Gon was right.

    6. in AOTC he sends the queen away in order to have jar jar vote. obviously, he planned the entire operation.

    Huh?

    7. when obi wan askes him about master sifodyas and if the jedi council ordered the clones..he jumps and denies everything..changing the subject..while yoda watches him meticulously.

    So?

    8. only a jedi can erase the jedi archives. and dooku is not a jedi, hes a sith. note that dooku and mace used to work together and ordered the clones, but dooku left the jedi order and mace stayed behind to control everything and help sidious.

    Dooku used to be a Jedi. No one said when the archives were erased, he could have done it before he left.

    9. mace denies dookus involvements..clearly he was working for him.

    Or maybe it was unexpected.

    10. only a sith would know of the jedi's weakness..and mace windu knows. "I think its time we inform the senate of our weakness"

    The Jedi would know of their own weakness.

    11. mace windu plans the fall of the jedi by sending them all in to the arena..knowing that they would all be trapped and killed in action. the jedi council already knew that dooku had a great army, yet mace decided it was ok to lead all the jedi into a battle? when obi wan had already reported that he had discovered the army.

    Actually Yoda was the one who planned it.

    12. mace windu killed jango fett because he messed up..for one he didnt kill obiwan on kamino..then he let him learn too much..so jango had to be killed..because obiwan knew too much and that was jango's fault.

    He killed Jango because he was an enemy.

    13. yoda already suspects mace windu is loosing his faith for the jedi.. he sees how mace windu is turning to the dark side.

    PPOR

    14. mace windy erased the kamino files..because only a jedi council member could..and note dooku and sifodyas were not members of the jedi council, they were just jedi.

    No, only a Jedi or now former Jedi could erase the files.

    15. and lastly, mace always wanted to fight yoda...and be a sith..and if you watched that special on tv not too long ago..sam jackson plays an evil sith..so he will finally get a chance to fight yoda, like he always wanted.

    WTH?
  20. SaeseeJim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2003
    star 4
    Who do you guys think that the traitor is then. I think that it is Sora Bulq. One comic I was reading Sora Bulq was having a meeting with Mace and Mace asks him "Tell me Sora when did you go to the dark side?" and Sora said that he was disgusted with how the Jedi performed on Geonosis and he was approached by Dooku. Also he had been practicing Vaapad with Mace and the power in Vaapad got the best of him and turned him over.
  21. NeoBaggins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2003
    star 5
    "You can't prove the saber color has any significance." Apparently not now that Lucas has let Jackson end the entire concept. Along with giving green sabers to green skinned characters because it matches.

    And Lukes saber in ROTJ has the same significance as Jinns in TPM. Although Jinn appears to be a good man, his failure to follow council rules has put him outside of the circle. A freelance, rebel, reneagade of sorts. He can go either way at any given moment as we have witnessed him cheating and trying to use the force for manipulation. Hence, green saber.

    Now we have Luke, and like Jinn, he is not on the Jedi council. There isnt one, but he is not official nonetheless. He is teetering harder than Jinn by being the son of Vader. He even chooses to wear dark robes and an Emperor-like hood. Hence, green saber. It was obviously reserved for renegade Jedi. Those who could use the force but didnt really belong and were not nessessarily evil nor pure of heart. Just an average joe with the force who is not ready to live the strict life of a BlueSaber wielding Master.

    True blue. Traditional Jedi standard. The only reason why Luke had one to begin with because it was given to him. He built the green one himself.

    Red. Obviously a representation of evil.

    Green. Renagade, outcast, rebel, freelance, unusual circumstance subject.
    But, now.
    Purple. Because Sam Jackson asked for one.

    Green. Whoever is green and whoever gets thier hands on one.

  22. Darthvaderocks06 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2003
    star 4
    Interesting, sounds good. But then how will he die in a "Blaze of Glory"? Will the Jedi kill him?
  23. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    NeoBaggins, was that whole speel about green a quote from Lucas/LFL, or just fan conjecture? Because otherwise he destroyed nothing, because it was never there. People were just reading too deep into the films. And by destroying the theory like that, it helps makes his authorial intention clearer, which is a good thing for him as a writer.
  24. homeless_jedi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 4
    10. only a sith would know of the jedi's weakness..and mace windu knows. "I think its time we inform the senate of our weakness"

    The Jedi would know of their own weakness



    yoda clearly says "only a sith would know of our weakness" so now your saying yoda is a liar? mace is the only jedi who accepts their weakness and accects the jedi's fall..a real jedi woudlnt doubt the force.
  25. TitaniumBender Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2003
    star 1
    How would you know what a real jedi is?

    You're no jedi.

    Therefore, you can't explain what a real jedi is.

    It's like a woman trying to describe what a "real man" would do. BUT THEY JUST DON'T KNOW.
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