PT Mace Windu's Choice on the Masters in EP III

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Slowpokeking, Sep 4, 2013.

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  1. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 21, 2012
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    According to the novel, the ones he picked were the best swordsmen on Coruscant. However both in the novel and the movie, they were killed by Palpatine quickly. I really think they didn't form a efficient team. Palpatine killed 2 easily before they were able to make any useful moves. Looks like the small space of the office, even limited their moves.

    Saesee Tiin and Agen Kolar's Form were not known, Fisto is Shii-Cho, which is not good in dueling.

    I think he should have picked Shaak Ti because her Makashi is good in lightsaber combat and does not require big space to use. Mace Windu should serve as the "tank", use his Vaapad to meet head on head with Palpatine, when the rest of them try to find chances to take him down.
  2. Darth Gartin Jedi Youngling

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    Sep 2, 2013
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    He had them duped for so long I don't see why they didn't just wait and regroup. Yoda, Mace, Obi wan, and Ki-Adi-Mundi would have taken him down. (IMO)
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  3. Komodo9Joe Jedi Master

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    Aug 1, 2013
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    I completely agree that Sidious killed the three other Jedi Masters far too quickly but I think Lucas was in a bit of a dilemma on how he he could showcase Sidious' power. In order to show Sidious' strength, a notable feat such as slaughtering three Jedi master in seconds is necessary but it also detracts away from the power held by a Jedi Masters and Jedi Council members. And as always, movies are hard-pressed for time and thus emphasize screen time for the prominent cast.

    My main problem with the scene was that I couldn't suspend my disbelief that a Jedi master would simply stand there while Sidious poses for a lunge and do nothing to block, dodge, or parry a straight piercing jab through his heart. Similarly, Mace and Fisto are apparently frozen and let Sidious kill Tiin and Kolar unhindered.

    Just my speculation, but I always thought of Shaak Ti as a more nurturing and caring Jedi who might be able to better calm the Jedi children in the temple. The children are probably wondering why the temple is under lockdown and the ones who can sense things through the Force might be worried and scared about the overwhelming amounts of Dark Side they are sensing.

    But on a combat ability level, I think that Tiin and Kolar, both of whom were considered legendary among the Jedi Order even though their deaths didn't show it, were regarded as greater duelists than Shaak Ti.
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  4. Seagoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
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    Didn't the novel clarify that Palpatine's Force Scream is what froze the Jedi for a few seconds?
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  5. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 21, 2012
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    No, he used his words to distract Saesee Tiin then killed him and Agen Kolar quickly. Mace Windu still acted as a bad leader.
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  6. Dark Lord Of The Empire Jedi Grand Master

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    Aug 28, 2013
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    There was another thread in which someone brought up the possibility that Palpatine used a Force Scream to temporarily freeze the Jedi Masters in fear. It's debatable, but in the movie we see him let out that scream as he jumps up to them, and they sort of take a step back and then don't do anything instead of meeting him head on. It's an interesting theory, and one that kind of makes sense given what we see happen.
    In regards to the original question though, I don't think Mace could have picked much better then he did. His only better option would have been to bring Anakin along. Then the story would have unfolded much differently.
  7. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    They probably were among the best swordsmen in the Order. Palpatine was simply better.



    Aren't you assuming too much? What if Anakin had turned on them anyway, considering his big desire for Palpatine to help him save Padme? Mace had sense his emotional turmoil at the time.


  8. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 21, 2012
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    Yes, but they could have formed a better team, use their teamwork to take on Palpatine.
  9. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

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    Jul 5, 2013
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    The whole thing would have been better done had Mace Windu gone alone.
  10. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

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    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    Sidious took them by surprise, simple as that. The Jedi could not even sense it, as Palpatine had them fooled for two decades; the only thing they had to go off of was Anakin's word.

    Regardless, I believe the scene didn't portray that too well. Aside from the main cast, these were some of the most important Jedi in the prequels, but they were dispatched of far too easily. Maybe it was editing, maybe the Jedi were just too slow to react. It was a bummer that they went out like chumps, but things quickly got back on track once the duel moved to Mace vs. Sidious.

    I think one of the problems may have been the actors involved. Previously, the main Jedi were filled by stuntmen, and even a few martial artists. But in this case, the Jedi were simply extras with no fighting experience (or formal acting experience). An actual duel would have been improbable, based on this (it seems that Kit Fisto's actor just moves awkwardly in the heavy prosthetics). Meanwhile, Ian McDiarmid was having his own troubles, because he is primarily a Shakespearian actor, not accustomed to physical stunts.
  11. MOC Yak Face Moderator, Classic Trilogy

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    I think it was fine in principle. Just poorly executed.
  12. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

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    Jul 5, 2013
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    So after being warned that he was a Sith Lord, and going into his office with lightsabers lit, they were taken by surprise? Sorry, just not buying it.
    The character sure did plenty of physical stunts during the 1-on-1 duel with Mace as well as the Senate duel with Yoda.
  13. Skelter Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 1
    To this day, every time I see that scene I cringe a die a little more inside. That scene had such potential to be legendary, to bad it turned out so damn horrible.
  14. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

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    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    They had low attention spans.
  15. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

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    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    They have never faced a full-fledged Sith before, let alone Darth Sidious. As an older man, they may have underestimated him, even if he was the Sith. Again, the Jedi were known for doing that.
    Never said he didn't do any stunts, it's just that by all accounts, it was a difficult process for the older actor. The Yoda duel was easier due to the use of stunt doubles, but most of the Mace duel was Ian McDiarmid himself.
  16. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    Actually, Lucas used a stunt double for Ian McDiarmid, except for the close-ups of Palpatine's face.


    You're reaching for the moon here. The three Jedi who accompanied Mace simply were not good enough to take him on as a team. Remember Obi-Wan and Anakin's failure with Dooku? Why is that so hard to accept?

    Why is it that when the Jedi are seen at their worst, fans complain of bad writing or engage in wishful thinking? Is it really that important for them to be seen as perfect or near perfect?
    Last edited by DRush76, Sep 5, 2013
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  17. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

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    Oct 23, 2003
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