Amph [MAD MEN] Guy walks into an advertising agency...

Discussion in 'Community' started by kingthlayer, Jul 25, 2010.

  1. kingthlayer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2003
    star 4
    "Nobody thinks you're happy, they think you're foolish."

    We have seen Don this happy before, when he was describing Betty to Anna. And then look what he did to Betty.

    After an attempt at a redemptive arc all season, Draper is back where he was in 1960 - the whole wife and kids life that didn't make him happy. Weiner said the season's theme would be "Who is Don Draper?", and it is anticlimactic to have us already know who he is. It is also anticlimactic to have the past three episodes starting an arc about how the agency is in deep trouble and then not resolve it somehow. It will be lame if the next season starts in 1966 and the firm is suddenly successful with some big clients when we never saw how it happened.
  2. World_Cup_Wally Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2010
    star 4
    I don't know about that. He seemed to genuinely enjoy the kids in the finale and Megan is actually good with kids. Can you imagine how the restaurant scene would have played out with Betty? We'll have to wait for next season :( to find out for sure though.
  3. Darth McClain Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    I thought that the finale was pretty solid. I really enjoyed the scene with Peggy and Joan post-engagement. Don's at ease with Megan, but I don't know if he truly loves here. I guess time will tell.
  4. kingthlayer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2003
    star 4
    I guess I just don't "get it". Where was the urgency? In last week's episode, everyone was frantic and throwing hundreds of thousands of dollars of their own money to save the agency. Nobody in this episode seemed to really care about going under. It just felt weird to me.
  5. Boba_Fett_2001 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2000
    star 8
    Don pulls a Roger. This will end well.
  6. solojones Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Jazib, I think that was my *exact* comment to Evan on IM when I was watching the episode :p No joke.


    -sj loves kevin spacey
  7. tom Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2004
    star 6
    i don't think he's pulling a roger. for one thing he's not as old, but also he's marrying someone who is not only young and beautiful but someone who is also really good for him and who seems to genuinely love him as much as he loves her. she's no betty that's for sure, so that comparison is off. it seems like people are saying that he doesn't really love megan, he only "thinks" he loves her. but what's the difference? i don't know, i do think it will fall apart because it kind of has to for the sake of the drama, but maybe not in the way that everyone is expecting it to.

    all the urgency of the last couple episodes was supposed to buy them some time. and a new account, however small, will keep them going a bit longer. i think you might be disappointed though, because i kind of expect the next season to start with them already back on their feet to some extent.

    but this episode was about don, because the show first and foremost is about don. this season was about don going from the pit of despair to eventually finding himself and finding happiness again. if you're not convince that that's really the case i can understand your disappointment, but i do think that's what the finale was trying to tell us and personally i thought it did a good job.
  8. Boba_Fett_2001 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2000
    star 8
    That's hilarious! You watch Mad Men together! [face_laugh]

    :p
  9. kingthlayer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2003
    star 4
    Tom, I don't believe Don is in love. Maybe it was the awkward acting or the rushed love plot but it felt very unbelievable to me. The things he said to Megan sounded exactly like the kind of things he said to the crazy teacher in S3. Maybe he is going to try and love Megan and be faithful to her, but I have very strong doubts.
  10. Boba_Fett_2001 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2000
    star 8
    The difference this time is that he's seen another woman interact with his kids in a way that is very motherly, for lack of a better word.
  11. World_Cup_Wally Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2010
    star 4
    It will also help attract other business when people find out they're taking on new clients.
  12. TiniTinyTony Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2003
    star 6
    Even when Don gets married, he's not going to stop being Don, so it doesn't really matter if he's married, engaged, or whatever. He and Rachel Menken (Maggie Siff) were great together and he screwed it up, just like he screwed up things with Faye. Oh well. If he was happy and content, would he be as fun to watch? Let's hope in the first episode of Season 5 that Don wakes up in bed with Doris the waitress again.
  13. tom Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2004
    star 6
    i thought it was clear that he was in love in the california scenes, but it got awkward when they went back and had to tell everyone which was inevitable. but i thought the fact that don really wanted to tell everyone was also telling.

    i'm either less cynical or more naive than most (or both), but i think don really is in love and really has changed. but you're right tony that don being happy isn't really good for the show so i'm sure something is going to happen that will shake things up again.
  14. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    I just don't buy that he could genuinely fall in love with someone with whom he had very little interaction outside of business. Off the top of my head:

    -Sally hugged her after she tripped. Not really Don/Megan interaction, but Don got his "I gotta hit that" face at or around this ep.

    -They had no-strings-attached sex in his office.

    -She helped him moderate his drinking to an arbitrary, meaningless number.

    -They went to California together.

    I think his actions can be much more well-explained by the fact that he clearly misses Anna like hell, and Megan was literally the closest woman he could turn to in his desperation. And, unlike Faye, she isn't quite able to see past his mask. Yeah, she's good with the kids in contrast to Betty and Faye, but would that really be the first thing on Don Draper's list?
  15. tom Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2004
    star 6
    i think two people can genuinely fall in love in a really short period of time. sometimes it's just right. but it's hard to say if it will last, and they definitely rushed into the engagement. i think faye's point about don only liking the beginnings of things probably has merit.
  16. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    Oh, my hopeless romantic side agrees. Just not in this particular case. :p
  17. darth_boy Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2001
    star 7
    Well that was garbage, Mad Men really is Ally McBeal for pretentious people.
  18. Espaldapalabras Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2005
    star 5
    Enough of my friends have had gotten engaged and married seemingly overnight that the sudden engagement wasn't nearly as surprising as Dr. Faye just abruptly deciding to sleep with him several episodes ago.

    It was a fine episode, but I do agree with some commentary that there just weren't enough episodes to cover everything that was going on.

    SCDP doesn't seem "saved" by any means, so if everything is hunky dory when we join them next season I think that will be a cop out.

    The problem with Meghan isn't that she is the wrong girl, it is that Don isn't ready for marriage and could use more Dr. Faye to help him go through the stuff he is avoiding. She seemed like what he needed right now, but given the choice Meghan will be fun and easy, at least for now.

  19. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    Jeez, and people say I hate everything.
  20. darth_boy Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2001
    star 7
    Nah just the lame finale
    Coulda watched an average house episode instead
  21. Qui Gon Jim23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    I didn't mind the plot points so much as the editing and pacing of this episode. The whole time the words "faster" and "more intense" kept echoing through my brain. You kind of wonder had AMC allowed them another 10-15 minutes for the finale if the same story might have felt very different.
  22. tom Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2004
    star 6
    yeah, i'll agree with that. it seemed like they wanted to save the don/megan plot development so they could have a "shocking" turn of events for the finale. but by doing so they didn't leave themselves enough time to make it believable, and there was also no time left for a satisfying resolution the other characters' season 4 story arcs. the betty stuff was pretty good though, and it was a great don episode. jon hamm is consistently amazing.
  23. solojones Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    I think Don is just trying to throw himself into something because, as Guy said, he misses Anna. Plus, he's running away from Faye. He actually shared himself with her, and I think she was getting too close. If you look at Don's relationship with Betty, he basically treated her like a child. He doesn't want someone like Faye who's just as smart as he is and who is an adult with her life together. I'm not saying Megan is an idiot, but she clearly idolizes Don much in the way Betty probably used to.

    Don can keep her at a distance, but *feel* like he has someone that he's "close" to. I think that's what he really wants. To be able to convince others and maybe himself that he's in love and happy. Maybe he has even convinced himself that he's in love. I think the only person who openly questioned it in this episode was Peggy, who seems to be the person who really knows and gets Don the most. I feel like she could wind up calling him on his crap eventually. Dunno. But no way is it for real.

    And if it's supposed to be real, if we're supposed to be believe that Don just suddenly fell deeply in love with Megan, then this was a horrible, horrible episode. Because it was not done in a fashion of people really falling in love. It was done in the fashion of Don suddenly getting very afraid and lonely and convincing himself this was the solution.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  24. tom Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2004
    star 6
    hmmm, just watched it again and i'm still not sure. the last shot is really ambiguous, and don seems sort of troubled but i'm not really convinced either way.

    i think everyone is right in that faye was the better choice for don. but i also think that don was never really in love with faye. he leaned on her heavily and she helped him trough some really troubled times, but i think that was it. she was more of a motherly figure. and yes, his long term mental health prospects probably would have been better served by staying with faye and further coming to terms with his past. but we all know don isn't like that, he's actually at his best when he's in the moment.

    i also think people are underestimating megan's character. she's sweet and speaks french and is good with the kids, sure. but there is also an assertiveness to her character, and intelligence, and ambition. there's a lot there that's really compelling and i don't think it's so hard to believe that don would find himself infatuated with her. yeah, it seems to happen really fast in the finale, but there are several moments where we're led to believe that it's not really happening that fast. "i've been thinking about you so much." "i'm in love with you megan, and i think i have been for a long time." it's kind of sloppy writing, but it's true that there are often weeks of their lives between episodes. we've seen their feelings start to develop, it's unreasonable to assume that their relationship exists in a vacuum during the days that we don't see.

    and yes, don misses anna, the episode was clear in that regard. but watch the proposal scene again if you can. don knows he misses anna. he tells megan that the ring, "belonged to someone very important to me" in the most heartfelt manner. then she calls her mother and their foreheads are touching and he is looking directly into her eyes, one of the happiest moments we have seen from don draper. to me, right here, he is in love. anna made him happy and now megan makes him feel that same happiness. i don't see how that is a strike against his relationship with megan. i think he's ready to be himself again. i think he wants to be open with megan the same way he way open with anna, and the same way he was open with faye but with the added component that he's in love.

    but again, that last shot has me kind of torn. i guess i just think it's really interesting that we're so split on this.
  25. solojones Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    I think that last shot is him looking guilty and uncertain about messing with this poor girl's mind. Even if he's convincing himself that he's in love with her (and he's good at convincing people of things), I think part of him still knows exactly what he's doing. I think that shot was specifically there to end the episode in order to convey to the audience that when he's the only one awake and isn't "on" for anyone, Don is kind of troubled by his own actions.

    And yes, one of the reasons I don't think there's any way he's really truly happy and in love is that it would be really sloppy writing. Not that the writers are perfect, but this is probably the most heavily serialized show on TV. It's all about the characters and very little about anything else. It would be terribly sloppy of them to literally do nothing with Don having feelings for Meghan until the finale. I just don't think they'd do that.


    -sj loves kevin spacey