Major Error in AOTC

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by A1Alpha, Jun 26, 2002.

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  1. SenatorGoauld Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 3
    There was been no contradiction.
    For all you know, those were early structural blue-prints, and Tarkin doesn't come in with his version of the designs till later.
    Also Tarkin is an old fart in ANH, it is possible he was involved with the creation of this idea. Except there is no reason for him to be at that meeting, cos he wasn't highly ranked, or a politician.
  2. Nichos_Marr Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    star 4
    Also, the New Essential Guide to Characters that deals with movie and EU characters made mention of Bevel Lemelisk. During the time of Attack of the Clones he was in fact on Geonosis, aiding the seperatists in producing attack craft. Thus, it is entirely possible that he did help them design and refine the basic schematics for the Death Star. One person doesn't design something as huge as a Death Star, it takes a whole team of people.
  3. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    Lucas changes his ideas behind the scenes all the time. Like Owen being Obi Wan's brother. As long as these changes don't appear in the films then it's not a contradiction.

    You can jump through logical hoops to try to reason that Tarkin designed the death star but we all know that he didn't. Since no one in the films said he did, it's not an error.
  4. Face Loran Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 1999
    star 4
    "One person doesn't design something as huge as a Death Star, it takes a whole team of people."

    And a very large team at that, thousands at the very least, maybe even millions. It takes a large team of engineers just to design a car, let alone something the size of a moon. The millions of systems and subsystems and subsubsystems etc. is enough to boggle the mind. Crediting the Death Star to a single designer would be ludicrous.
  5. TK_Four_Two_One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2002
    star 5
    I think that there is NO evidence to say that Tarkin DID not create or in some way help come up with the idea's of the Death Star.
  6. knightboat82 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2002
    tarkin didnt design so to speak i think...does he look like an architect? i think he was just involved with its construction and planning, which he still can be. so is that a major plot hole? negative.
  7. knightboat82 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2002
    maybe dooku is his father! or qui-gon is really alive and is really dooku! or tarkin escaped the DS explosion! ....you can speculate all you want. wait till Episode III.
  8. Darth Sin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 1999
    star 5
    Let's say that Lucas does decide to have Tarkin play a significant role concerning the Death Star.

    It appeared that in AOTC that the Geonosians are probably the designers, but not necessarily the creators/masterminds. So since we did not see or hear about Tarkin; I do not think he figures into creator or designer role.

    So where could Tarkin come in in terms of the Death Star?? Well first of all I don't think that we are going to even see any pre-construction of the Death Star in EP III. But I do believe the plans will play a role in what transpires.

    I have always said that Count Dooku is partly a forerunner to Grand Moff Tarkin.

    Count Dooku was not just a Sith Lord, but he was in charge of Palpatine/Sidious's forces and troops; and it was he at the end of AOTC that now had the Death Star plans. I believe he is intended to oversee its construction.

    But I do not think that construction of the Death Star will begin in EP III, because it will not be needed yet. Also, Count Dooku will be killed!! So after his death, Palpatine will have Anakin as his new Sith Lord and Apprentice. The Empire will come to power and Palpatine will then establish the Imperial officers, which will include the Grand Moffs.

    Shortly thereafter, the Jedi Purge begins with Vader helping the Empire hunt down and destroying the Jedi Knights.

    As part of the Jedi Purge, the Jedi may have been able to steal the plans to the Death Star. Obi-Wan would be one that learns of the Death Star plans. But Vader while exacting his revenge on the Jedi order, will retrieve the plans and return them to his master. The Death Star plans will be put on hold, and pre-construction will not begin until the interim between EP III and ANH, as the rebellion begins to grow and become more established and gaining other systems to support it.

    EP III could end with Vader returning the Death Star plans to his Master, Emperor Palpatine. And without having to show Tarkin, Palpatine could say "I have found just the man to eventually oversee construction of the Death Star when the time is right, a man named Tarkin"

    So from this, it would point to ANH, and then the role of Dooku is split between Vader and Tarkin, from a certain point of view


    Darth Sin! :cool:
  9. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    That is why I said essentially. This is not based on the EU community entirely. GL himself approved some of the fact books that say this. GL himself said the Tarkin made the Death Star.

    When did he say that?

    He has made some statements about the EU existing outside his universe.
  10. fchung Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2002
    It's also possible that Tarkin merely takes credit for the deathstar. By that time the majority of systems have been engulfed into the empire. An empire, might I add, that was built on lies and deceit anyhow. Who the hell would object to the Grand Moff when he says that he desinged the galaxy's most deadly weapon? A member of a long gone trade faction? I don't think so.
  11. Luke_Clone Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    "Tarkin was simply involved at another stage. Did the movie ever say only the Genosians worked on it? No, Poggle actually said OUR. So to me, there is a good chance that more than the Genosians were involved."

    ReaperFett nailed it. The Geonosians role isn't really all that clear. Poggle has the plans in his possession and says, "If they find out what we are planning to build we are doomed!" Or something to that effect.

    So perhaps the Geonosians are merely the construction workers on the DS, or perhaps they did design it, or perhaps they designed it with the help of others.

    Still, I don't think what was in the movie necessarily negates what the ANH novelization says about Tarkin. Tarkin is probably involved in someway but he certainly isn't the only one. He doesn't really strike me as an engineer, Tarkin is a politician. The Geonosians may merely be his engineers or construction workers or whatever...
  12. jedi4500 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2002
    star 1
    GL has the final say...also, who knows maybe Tarkin did invent the Death Star, no one said otherwise in AOTC...he could have invented it and in Episode III it might come out that it was Tarkin...
  13. cnhianda Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2002
    star 1
    Just an FYI, The OS does comment.

    It says the deathstar was a "brainchild" of Grand Moff Tarkin. So it appears it was somewhat of his idea.....

    Either way, no contradiction has been made..
  14. Luke_Clone Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    "It says the deathstar was a "brainchild" of Grand Moff Tarkin. So it appears it was somewhat of his idea.....

    Either way, no contradiction has been made.."

    Exactly, just because Tarkin woke up one morning and said, "What we really need is a small-moon sized space station that can destroy an entire planet," doesn't mean Tarkin actually "planned" it or "designed" it.
  15. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    The more of the EU the movies contradict, the better. If only GL would take the next step and jettison the EU altogether.

  16. TK_Four_Two_One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2002
    star 5
    sorry, Shelley, i disagree. i like EU. obviously George aint too much against it either cuz he has a whole section to EU in starwars.com- plus it keeps the interest- and the money rolling LOL.
  17. Darth Sin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 1999
    star 5
    Small question.

    About how old was Tarkin in ANH?? The reason I ask this of course is to try and get his age range that he would be at the time of AOTC.

    Though it would not necessarily matter in terms of the saga; he would probably be around Obi-Wan's age. I think his age comes into consideration in terms of what he is doing at the time of AOTC and his role and status as well.

    If Tarkin would still turn out to be the designer of the Death Star; in my opinion his skills and knowledge would be pretty well-known during the time of AOTC, but not necessarily well known throughout the Republic

    I personally do not think he gains any real power or influence until after the Empire is established.

    I think it would have been cool had to have had one of Padme's instructors in her political training had been Tarkin.


    Darth Sin :cool:
  18. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    "He" doesn't have any such thing. LFL is in charge of that website. And Lucas himself has spoken of the EU with terms like "intruding."

    The EU is an easy way for Lucas to make money without doing any work. He did talk with Alan Dean Foster about "Approaching Storm," but that's because he and Foster have a long history (Foster wrote the ANH novelization, as well as "Splinter of the Mind's Eye," which would have been the first sequel to ANH had it flopped) and Lucas likes his stuff.

    As for the rest of it, he gives rubber stamp approval and no more. It "exists outside his universe," to use his own words.

    I hate the EU. It disrespects SW and is basically a means for authors to feed their own egoboos by acting like they can write SW better than Lucas.
  19. Charlie_Martel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2001
    star 4
    "And a very large team at that, thousands at the very least, maybe even millions. It takes a large team of engineers just to design a car, let alone something the size of a moon."

    And they're all Geonosians! :D

    "The more of the EU the movies contradict, the better. If only GL would take the next step and jettison the EU altogether."

    Hmmm, I disagree. I just wish Lucas waited untill after he finished all of his movies to let the EU come out. I mean, a lot of the EU as of now makes almost no sense (post-RotJ), so the EU would be a lot better if it would just wait for all of George's story to be told :D
  20. TK_Four_Two_One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2002
    star 5
    Maybe Tarkin gains his high place in the Empire cuz the Emperor is so impressed with the Death Star Tarkin helped create???? Who knows.
  21. Luke_Clone Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    The EU has its uses.

    For example, how would you know that Tarkin was "Grand Moff Tarkin" if it wasn't for the EU? It is never mentioned in the movie. How about them ewoks? I don't remember anyone calling them "ewoks" in the movie.

    Whether people on this forum want to admit to it or not, they all rely on the EU for certain things such as names of persons/places/things when the movie doesn't clearly state, "Oh yes, that planet's name is Tatooine." (think ANH)

    Sorry for the rant. ::flips Republic ditari at Wuher::

    BTW, are the credits considered EU too?
  22. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Basically, Lucas is disrespecting his own work. He allows this.

    Anyway, Tarkin knew about Zenoma Sekot. An idea was formed and he told Raith. He did his part and Tarkin takes credit for overseeing the creation of it. Actual credit goes to others. It's a joint venture. So, nothing is contradicted by either side.

  23. Nephrite Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 1
    so they had plans for 20 years and did not find that it can be destroyed if somebody shoots torpedos thru that hole?
  24. Nichos_Marr Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    star 4
    And they're all Geonosians!

    Interesting, I never heard any line or saw any scene in the movie to prove that.

    I hate the EU. It disrespects SW and is basically a means for authors to feed their own egoboos by acting like they can write SW better than Lucas.

    It disrespects Star Wars in YOUR opinion, don't state it like it is a fact. I don't think any author ever boasted that he or she could write better than Lucas.
  25. Charlie_Martel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2001
    star 4
    "Interesting, I never heard any line or saw any scene in the movie to prove that."

    Okay. Maybe they're not all Geonosisans, but they are all members are the Separatists.

    "The Jedi must not find our designs for the ultimate weapon."
    "If they find out what we are planning to build, we're doomed."

    So yeah. They're probably not all Geonosians, but they could be. "our" and "we" is either referring to the Geonosians or Separatists.
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