Major Error in AOTC

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by A1Alpha, Jun 26, 2002.

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  1. Gay-LenKenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2000
    star 5
    Because we want more from George Lucas. Not Joe Smoe author who is just writing fanfiction that is lucky enough to be published.

    Not to mention the fact that most of it is rehashed super weapons and even though its made clear in the movies that the Jedi were wiped out except Ben and Yoda, some how hundreds of jedi crawl out of the wood work. AND, they are ALL PILOTS! UGH!

  2. Rev_Leidu Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2001
    star 5
    Okay. I can solve those things no problem.

    1) the Jedi did not crawl out of the woods. Most of the Jedi in the EU were hidden well (I believe Kyp was in the Mines of Kessal, ne?) or they were born AFTER the defeat of Palpatine. Wow...what a concept...

    2) Not ALL of them are pilots. I believe Cilghal doesn't go around in an X-Wing blowing up stuff.

    3) It's still GEORGE LUCAS'S galaxy, characters, and vision. His creation that just happened to age a bit.

    Here's a good question: Just because the 5th and 6th movies were directed by different people, does that make you wanna not watch them? Basically the same concept to me.
  3. Groovy_Ssi-Ruuvi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 4
    Okay, I'll grant that there are some parts of the EU (more Death Stars and such) that I'm not fond of, but if your argument is that you don't think the quality of th EU matches the films, that should have no bearing on whether or not it is considered official or not.

    And in terms of quality, George Lucas isn't exactly flawless when it comes to Star Wars either. You have to admit, there are parts of the films that are worse than others. (Unless you really take Lucas at his word... then everything in the movies is perfect.)

    EDIT:
    Rev actually touches on the exact point I was going to make. Why is it that according to almost any poll conducted in the universe (fans and critics) that says by and large that The Empire Strikes Back is the best of the films; the one in which Lucas neither directed, nor wrote the screenplay for?
  4. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    I would agree that it would be nice to have new quality SW stories by authers who get it, but they don't. Maybe after all the movies are released and the big picture and all the facts are known, the EU will get better. But then it's too late because they have to fit everything with the current wrong facts.

    Wouldn't it be great to start the EU over again after Episode III? Ah.

    Anyway, back on topic, I'm sure there will be a "fix" for the Tarkin issue that will fit in with your parallell universe.
  5. Darth_OlsenTwins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    And in terms of quality, George Lucas isn't exactly flawless when it comes to Star Wars either. You have to admit, there are parts of the films that are worse than others. (Unless you really take Lucas at his word... then everything in the movies is perfect.)




    Then that gives you crappy books based on a flawed idea. Even worse.
  6. Nichos_Marr Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    star 4
    I would agree that it would be nice to have new quality SW stories by authers who get it, but they don't.

    How do you know they don't get it? Have you read every single novel that has been released? Or are you basing your argument on a few?

    Wouldn't it be great to start the EU over again after Episode III? Ah.

    I don't think so, but you can dream.

    I'm sure there will be a "fix" for the Tarkin issue that will fit in with your parallell universe.

    There was no contradiction made in the first place :)
  7. Rev_Leidu Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2001
    star 5
    I would agree that it would be nice to have new quality SW stories by authers who get it, but they don't. Maybe after all the movies are released and the big picture and all the facts are known, the EU will get better. But then it's too late because they have to fit everything with the current wrong facts.

    Current wrong facts? Pardon, but how are some facts in the EU wrong? I know there are many plot holes and all, but I don't think you should blame the plot holes on the EU alone. How many plot holes are there in the movies themselves?

    Anyway, back on topic, I'm sure there will be a "fix" for the Tarkin issue that will fit in with your parallell universe.

    *coughs* Again, how is this the EU's fault? And besides...we have given the answer already. More than one person can design an object before producing it.
  8. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    How do I know they don't get it? The prophecy. The Clones. The Jedi Code. Everything about the Jedi actually. Everything about the Sith. The rule of two. Palpatine coming back like a horror movie monster. Luke turning to the dark side. etc,etc, etc.

    Most of it isn't their fault because they didn't have the whole story. That's why starting over would be so great. I'd try the EU again if they did.

    EDIT: and there aren't any inconsistencies in the films.
  9. Rev_Leidu Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2001
    star 5
    Palpatine coming back like a horror movie monster. Luke turning to the dark side. etc,etc, etc.

    Oh, don't tell me you read DE and stopped! Gah! Only read one bad thing and you quit on the whole thing *shakes head*
  10. Groovy_Ssi-Ruuvi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 4
    Then that gives you crappy books based on a flawed idea. Even worse.

    Or books that try to expand and expound upon a great concept; I guess it depends on your perception.

    How do I know they don't get it? The prophecy. The Clones. The Jedi Code. Everything about the Jedi actually. Everything about the Sith. The rule of two.

    Nobody knew Lucas was going to create these aspects of the story, not even him until he started to write them.
  11. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    I read more than Dark Empire. That was just one example. That and the Thrawn trilogy are the worst offenders but from then on it just rippled out because the later books had to follow their example.
  12. Rev_Leidu Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2001
    star 5
    Then that gives you crappy books based on a flawed idea. Even worse.

    Or books that try to expand and expound upon a great concept; I guess it depends on your perception.


    I have to agree with my friend Groovy. Is the glass half-full? Or half-empty? You be the judge.
  13. Nichos_Marr Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    star 4
    How do I know they don't get it? The prophecy. The Clones. The Jedi Code. Everything about the Jedi actually. Everything about the Sith. The rule of two. Palpatine coming back like a horror movie monster. Luke turning to the dark side. etc,etc, etc.

    That's all focusing on the Jedi and Sith themes of Star Wars. But, as I'm sure you know, Star Wars is about much more than Jedi and Sith.

    How about the X-Wing novels? Ever give those a try? Nothing really to do with the the prophecy, or the Jedi code.

    Besides, there's a fix for everything.
  14. Rev_Leidu Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2001
    star 5
    I read more than Dark Empire. That was just one example. That and the Thrawn trilogy are the worst offenders but from then on it just rippled out because the later books had to follow their example.

    Excuse me, but most people find that the Thrawn trilogy is one of the best series in the EU. It's closer to the movies than even the NJO is, which has been a pretty good series, besides the fact that they killed Chewbacca...

    I honestly don't think you're thinking about other people's opinions here.
  15. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    I'm just giving mine. You don't have to listen to them.
  16. Rev_Leidu Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2001
    star 5
    I'm just giving mine. You don't have to listen to them.

    Honestly, I'm interested in other people's opinions. I want to know how other people feel about certain things that way I don't offend them too badly by saying something improper.
  17. Sometimey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2002
    star 1
    Giving one's opinion is not improper!
  18. Darth_Sid_Vicious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2002
    star 1
    Meanwhile, back at the ranch...
  19. Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    If you love Star Wars (and I can't imagine you would be on this board otherwise) why wouldn't you always want more?

    Because one of the reasons why Star Wars is great is that it is limited. It is a self-contained story, meaning it has a beginning, middle, and end. When you take the end of ROTJ, one that wraps up the conflicts of the saga (like a conclusion is supposed to do), and nullify it by adding even more events, it cheapens it. A six-movie story ends there; when it is extended ad infinitum it feels tacked on. Star Wars is a fairy tale, a fantasy, and a Western. Fairy tales end with "Happily ever after", fantasies end up with evil being defeated once and for all, Westerns end with the characters riding off into the sunset. That is what the end of ROTJ is. From my perspective, Star Wars ends the moment the camera turns off. EU is nothing more than speculation on what will happen next. It has no basis in the reality of the story. If SW is history, EU is alternate history, or maybe historical fiction.

    That's my stance.
  20. Rev_Leidu Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2001
    star 5
    Giving one's opinion is not improper!

    No, but ignoring others' opinions while stating yours and insulting them while doign so IS improper.

    Lord_Hydronium: Like I said before: If you don't like it, don't read, touch, taste, or look at it. Simple answer to a simple problem.
  21. cnhianda Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2002
    star 1
    All I got to say to show that EU is crap is:
    Luuke Skywalker.

    WTF? That was garbage...

    Things like Luuke Skywalker and Palpatine coming back into the story, make the EU atrocious and unrespectable.
  22. Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    Rev: Touchy, are we? I was just stating my opinion. No need to get vicious.
  23. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    This should probably be closed since it's veered off topic. But since I'm one of the perpetrators I'm not going to start any drama by closing it myself. So admins, you can close this now. :p
  24. Groovy_Ssi-Ruuvi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 4
    Hydronium: Although I disagree with your stance, I admit that at least you presented it in a lucid, well-argued manner. I give you credit for that.
    My thinking, however, is that: why does the movie have to abide by the rules of fairy-tales, fantasies and Westerns? Star Wars embodies aspects of these genres certainly, but is far from the same.

    And if Star Wars is "history." Then limiting it should be the last thing you should do. Was the story of Ulyses S. Grant finished after the Civil War ended? Hardly, he became the president (despite voting for his opponent). History tracks the "lives" of the movers and shakers of civilization, not just a "certain time period" of their lives.
  25. Nichos_Marr Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    star 4
    All I got to say to show that EU is crap is:
    Luuke Skywalker.

    WTF? That was garbage...


    I didn't like Luuke Skywalker either, but those two words certainly don't speak for the 50+ novels, hundreds of comics, tons of games and everything else the EU is comprised of.

    Padme Bra, I agree. The question of the topic has already been answered.
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