many people think that esb is best star wars film...

this is my first post on this website but ive been reading from the force since episode 1. now ive been thinkking bout this a lot lately and have talked to lots of star wars fans and by popular opinion many people think that esb is the best star wars film, and i used to think so too until i really started to break it down.

i think that the main reason that many people think that esb is the best of the pt and ot is because of all the plot development u learn about. quite a lot more than the anh. u learn that vader is lukes father, u learn a lot more about the force, u meet yoda and he tells u more about vader. but if u think about things more how could this be the best episode.

first of all, i believe that the reason that esb is so revered is because it introduced a lot of things that the audience never knew because the only other previous source of star wars was ANH.

if u were to watch episodes 1-6 in order, a lot of the surprises that were in esb, wouldnt be surprises or introductions. u would already know who vader is and was, u will know of yoda, u will know a lot about the force and everything thats said in esb wouldnt be a surprise. the shocking elements of esb wouldnt be shocking and would just be a pretty boring plot besides han solo being caught, everything else we would already know already. tell me what u all think about this...

 

I think script, directing, acting, pacing, score all have something to do with it.

It makes ep1 look like the crap it is.

 

A viewer that watched the Saga 1-6 first off will not find ESB as amazing as we did. So why I agree with alot of what your saying, there's also another side as to why I like ESB more than any other episode. Irvin Kershner did a far better job of directing than GL. The atmoshphere, the tension, the humour all combined to make one excellent movie. The ESB saber duel is the best, IMO, because of the atmosphere and tension that Kershner created. And it's not only because Vader is Luke's father. Kershner's directing, I feel, also helps people feel that ESB is the best SW movie.

 

ESB is by far the best film of the SW cannon (and is easily defended on a critiquing level).
Starting with the very look of the film. The blue film process that ILM employed is wholly unique to the SW universe, bathing the action and dramatic tension in colder hues gave the film an interesting visual expression that the other SW films have all but lacked. The Editing is crisp and never assumes an overbearing position... in a way it resembles Raiders of the Lost Ark in its audience involvement through the movement of frames and timing. John Williams' score reaches new heights with the Imperial March, lending a foreboding tone to the happy-go lucky, Flash Gordon hero-always-succeeds themes played out in ANH (and this is not taking anything away from that brilliant score). The FX were and are to this day stunning. Composite shots against snow in 1980? Unheard of. It goes without saying that this film had a much larger budget than the first (3x) and it shows on screen... from the costumes, to the sets, and even the perfected lightsabre FX.

Moving to the interaction between characters. They're more mature and much more comfortable in these roles (as is to be expected), but Kirshner's directed in the dramatic sense far exceeds GL's meager grasp of the issue. Kasdan's script is tight and concise and never has C3PO been more charming (where now all he can elicit are groans from the audience, pandering to the lowest common denominator which is now considered "humor"). GL's story here is impressive and shows a real grasp of "world building", expanding upon previous mythic themes and even punctuating others, widening the scope of the SW universe.

What saddens me most about this picture is both that GL felt that Kirshner did "too good a job" for the type of film experience he was trying to create (and thus explains why ROTJ, TPM, and occasionally AOTC feel somehow like a weaker experience), and that ESB is GL's least favorite SW film. Sad. I can understand GL's opinions on these and I do not believe that it has anything to do with jelousy or resentment. It is more a dissatisfaction with himself in that he was unable to completely convey the type of "pulp" experience that he wanted his audience to have when discussing the basic ideas about the SW universe when he first talked to Kirshner. Alas, GL should've listened to the audience after its release. Perhaps then we would have had the truely dark and far more gratifying experience with subsequent SW films to come.

Oh well, there will always be ESB... and hey, even the Special Edition cut is the best out of the available three.

 

I didnt like ESB until i was older, when i was younger it was my least favorite, i liked rotj

 

Same here, which goes to show ESB is a more mature movie.

 

I liked it the best when I was younger, because Vader was in it a lot, and when Vader was in it a lot, I was happy. Plus, the imperials won, and I liked the imperials. And the ending where the bad guys kicked all sorts of tale was awesome then, and still is awesome now. Plus it had a battle in the SNOW. In the SNOW. THE SNOW! ^_^ I love snow. Always have. ^_^;

I don't think there really is a "best" SW movie though. Some people love ANH, some people love ESB, some people love ROTJ, and some people love TPM or AOTC the best. *shrugs* All depends on what you like.

 

Agreed with what you are saying about watching it from 1-6 will take out some of the surprises, ESB is my favourite for the above reasons.

I have always thought a similar thing wrt ANH, the plot was brilliant as a stand alone film and then as a part of the OT. But when viewed in the contexted of the saga, with the exception of introducing us to Luke, all the characters and the situations encountered will be revisited and not so novel. However IMO, it will still be a great film and I'm sure it will not come across like that when I watch the saga 1-6.

 

I have to agree, ANH was always my favourite...until I got older, and now I find ESB far more "satisfying" to watch. It`s not as black-and-white, good guys win, as ANH, and evokes far more complex emotions.

As to the lack of surprises watching them 1-6, I think part of the watching pleasure comes from seeing the charcters we`re watching discovering the surprises.

 

As to the lack of surprises watching them 1-6, I think part of the watching pleasure comes from seeing the charcters we`re watching discovering the surprises.

Thats a good way to look at it

 

When I was younger ESB was my least fave. Now I'm older its my fave. I guess it is a mature kinda movie like someone said up there^.

 

Eh, TESB is alright. Nothing special.


The constant gushing over this movie has caused me to dislike it more and more. I appreciate it for what it is, and I like it about as much as I like TPM and ANH, but it's definitely not my favorite, nor will it ever be I imagine.

 

ESB is GL's least favorite SW film... he was unable to completely convey the type of "pulp" experience that he wanted his audience to have when discussing the basic ideas about the SW universe when he first talked to Kirshner.

Well said.

I know a lot of people here prefer ESB/Kershner to the other SW films and the more Lucaslike vision.

But speaking as someone who prefers the pulp silliness of ANH (my favorite SW film now and forever), ESB simply never soars as high for me*. I give it a B+. My fourth favorite SW film.


* exception: "I am your father", greatest scene in cinema history. Shame the movie takes till Cloud City to pick up.


Rick McCallum loves you!

 

I'm with Adam on this one. ANH is my favorite SW film. I love ESB but can't really watch it over and over again. The slower pace and darker undertones ensure that. Plus, I've always found it a little slow up until Bespin.

That said, I still love the movie. As somewhat of a grown-up, I enjoy the atmosphere, darkness and pure creepiness. It's scary at times and takes itself more seriously than the others, (although I also like the hokiness of ANH, ROTJ and TPM). Plus, it expands on ANH so well that it gives the entire saga a soul. It's great and memorable.

I agree it may lose some of its surprise-impact for future generations that watch the films in order. However, I think it's got more than enough heart to appeal to new fans.

 

I am with Indy2 on this one.

 

In my book, ESB's the most overrated of all the films.

 

As someone who discovered Star Wars a few years after ROTJ (that was the first one I saw) I can confirm this feeling. With plenty of people to fill me in, and ROTJ being as it was, I really didn't have any "surprises" left for ESB.

I only saw ESB once, and found it kind of boring. While I saw the plot developing, I thought the whole "Millenium Falcon malfunctioning" thing kind of dragged. And Cloud City didn't have much appeal for me until Vader got there. The opening fight on Hoth was exciting for me though.

As for the "I am your father" line, I of course knew about it. So when I saw it, there was no literal shock. The good thing was that I still got the "thematic shock" of the moment for the characters, and still thought it was a powerful scene. I've had similar experiences watching Charleston Heston's "You blew it all up" finale scene from the original Planet of the Apes.

I must point out, though, I was still pretty young when I watched ESB, so I don't know what my response would be to it now.

So I think that watching the Saga in order will change the meaning of ESB. While the movie as a whole will probably be held in lower esteem, the best scenes will still be revered.

 

I have to disagree.........ESB is by far the best. Now I've watched Episodes 1, 2, 4, 5, and 6 in order, and even though hearing the words "Luke I am Your Father" don't have the same affect on me as it once had...........it is still the best out of them all. And no, not because of the surprises but because of the person that directed it. It takes a great storyteller to tell a story, and thats what it was.

Irvin Kershner did just that with the movie. GL has nothing against this guy. ESB is a movie I can watch over and over again, ANH is quite on the boring side for me a little, perhaps cause it was such a slow pace and the film that was setting it all up (similar to TPM).

 

I don't understand how anyone could prefer TESB simply because it's directed slightly differently than the other 5 movies. The direction isn't THAT different, I think some people are just too picky.


There's nothing extraordinarily better about it than Lucas's directing. The pacing is slow, the script is alright, but there aren't too many memorable lines (except from Yoda and Vader), and the cinematogrophy is at best on par with the other 5 movies. Well, it's better than the cinematography in RotJ.

 

The way that 3P0 interacts with R2 is far better than any other SW film. He is not repeating anything that R2 says but we as the audience completely understand every "beep" and "boop". Although Peter Suschitzky's cinematography on the whole is far more esoteric (take a look at his resume... everything from sub-par films such as "Krull" and "Man in the Iron Mask", he's also responsible for some real beautiful framing... i.e. Crash, Spider [both Cronenberg I might add]), it's the choice of lighting and depth of space given in each shot that not only showcase the set design, but also place out Heros and Villains in both the necessary symetrical (read visual interpretation of an emotion) proportion to the event that is either taking place in the foreground or background. None of the other SW films even come close to this kind of detail, which shows a real "team effort" in order to achieve these shots on a consistant basis throughout the film. As mentioned, there is a "reality" to this picture, a gritty grunginess that places it outside the sphere of the other SW films. The PT have been far too "clean" in my estimation. Now I understand that perhaps GL wants to showcase the visual difference between having the Republic and being ruled by the Empire, but in a universe as vast as GFFA, it just seems too damn CGI clean... gotta dirty things up if you want me to believe that my hero's life is in danger... it's the abstract equivalent of "uncertainty".

Could go on, but others speak far more eloquently.

 

I have to agree with the people who hold the original Star Wars as the best. Nothing against Empire, but though it may be technically superior to the first one, (a point that could be debated endlessly,) it does not have the same snese of magic and wonder the original possessed. Star Wars was the best, and in my opinion, all sequels have been created equally.

 

The one big problem I have with ESB is that it's often, far too often, used as a weapon to attack the other SW films.

You know how a few people practically shriek in horror if someone so much as dares to suggest they liked something in TPM or AOTC more than the OT? Or ROTJ the best out of the OT?

Well, ESB is the pinnacle of that. Not used to show some of the best aspects of SW, but used to bash every other SW film down flat.

It's almost into LOTR territory with me...enjoy those films, really irritated by the more extreme fans that rabbit on about it being utterly unsurpassable and ten times better than anything else. Very tiresome indeed.

But I do love ESB, no doubts there.
I think I can safely say that, whatever Lucas is selling, I'm buying

 

You might want to hide your eyes from this DamonD....

ESB is my second-favorite film after AOTC!!! The horror!!!

I get your point on ESB being used by people to illustrate why they think the PT is inferior. I don't give that argument structure much credibility.

I love ESB because it has wonderful atmosphere, truly expands, deepens and darkens the established story from ANH, has the best overall score, and takes us to the most other-worldly locations than any other film in the OT. And of course the "I am your father" line.

None of the locations in ESB "looked" like Earth to me, and I think that's part of its charm. Since I was 7 when ESB came out, it also marked such a fun time in my childhood. I was very much into collecting the figures, was completely fascinated and excited by the two films we had and still had a third to look forward to. After ROJ, it was all over. But during the time of ESB, it was as giddy a time as I can remember about being a SW fan in that era.

 

I haven't played rank the films in a while, so here it goes, starting with my favorite.

AOTC
ROTJ
ESB
TPM
ANH

As you can see, ESB's tucked away snugly in the middle. A great film obviously, but not one I watch as often as Episodes II and VI.