Mara Jade, Hate her? Love her?

I like Mara most of the time. True, she can be a b*%$#, but most of the time it's to people who deserve it. One of the things I like most about her is that, unlike a lot of the other characters, she's only nice to people who she thinks have earned it, which is more believable for me. She's practical, fiercely loyal and intelligent.

Only nice to people that have earned it? WTH? So it's kay to treat people like shat until, what? They kiss your butt enough? Didn't get taught any manners by momma, did ya?

I'm completely the oppostie of stupid. i treat all people with respect and compassion and kindness, untilthey give me reason not to. Everyone gets the same chance. I believe that's what's referred to as "well adjusted" and a good person.

An idiot is an idiot, and Mara is an idiot. Why treat people cruelly? That means she's cruel and judgemental and paranoid.

She's not half as intelligent as Leia, or Luke or anyone else in the series for that matter. What has she done that is so damn special? No one can think of anything and in the other threads people think her force ability is weak. So her crap attitude overcompensates for a lack of accomplishment.

All bark. Like a short guy that acts all like bantam rooster, picking fights to prove how tough he is when all he really is is a loser. Why be like that. No one's ever done anything to hurt Mara. She just has a chip on her should the size of Texas and comes totally from her own mind.

 

Wow. A bit of anger there.

Let me explain. I do not act cruelly to people I do not know or those I do not respect. But neither do I act as if I would lay my life down for them, and neither do I take any crap from them. Many of the Star Wars characters are totally selfless in that regard, and I think it's refreshing to see a character that doesn't just blindly give out kindness wherever she can. And I said, she can be a b&%$#. But does she act CRUELLY? Not that I've noticed.

I don't know who claimed you were stupid. I can think of several things she's done that are fairly special.
1) She is/was the second in command of a galaxy-spanning organization which specialized in gaining information.
2) She was a trained assassin for the Emperor, utilizing both elite weapons and stealth training as well as Force abilities.
3) She knows many of the secrets of the old Empire, and was instrumental in many of the key battles against it.
4) She is a Jedi Knight who, while not on the same level as Luke, the Solos or Kyp, is still fairly powerful in her own right (as any of her fights with Vong show).

When compared to the movie characters, you're right, she isn't all that special. But compared to average Joe Star Wars, she's something else. And while I too dislike it when she lectures Luke about the Force as if she had decades of experience under her belt, she does have good insights and valuable opinions. You seem to just hate her on principle.

 

Ashandrei, that was directed to Mara not you.

It's still bad manners to be mean to people until they prove why you should be nice, because that wil never happen. People don't give someone with a chip on their shoulder any more time than they have to. Life's too short for that.

The only reason people tolerate Mara is because she's married to Luke, because of the family she's married into. Because without them, she has one other friend: Karrde. And it's her own fualt because she's so socially inept.

 

I've liked Mara since I first read the Thrawn trilogy. I think, however, that she's been abused in the way she's been written. The character she originally was has gradually deteriorated in the EU. By the NJO, I didn't like her much anymore. She somehow turned into this nearly normal, compassionate Jedi, wife (aka plot tool) of the Jedi Master. And that's just not the cool character I always liked before.

Mara Jade was not innocent. Not a bad person, exactly, but definately a messed up one. Imagine the trauma she suffered as a young child, being coerced away from her parents, likely Jedi who were hunted down and killed. And an upbringing of an assassin-in-training, being conditioned to kill, completely detached from emotion. An entire life spent completely devoted to and possessed by the nastiest guy in the galaxy! The point is, even if she managed to take herself out of that situation once no longer under the power of the Emperor, I can't see her ever becoming the person we read of in later EU. It just doesn't make sense. She might still be the competent Second-in-Command of Karrde, and she might even manage to become a love interest for Luke, but she'd never be the entirely level-headed Jedi Master, I don't think.

And I don't like her like that! She's boring! And it doesn't make sense for her to always have the wise, insightful advice for Luke. It makes both of their characters look bad, becuase it's just an overused plot device.

Anyway, end rant.

 

It's still bad manners to be mean to people until they prove why you should be nice, because that wil never happen.

Actually it does. I can be very rude with people. It depends on the person. Telemarketer. Rude. Idiot behind the counter at Best Buy. Rude. Old lady who asks you for help. Nice. But on the other hand if someone is rude towards me I just smile and be as pleasant as possible. It is often hilarious how people react when you treat them kindly in response to their rudeness.

The only reason people tolerate Mara is because she's married to Luke, because of the family she's married into. Because without them, she has one other friend: Karrde.

Not true. Luke was her friend since TTT. Torve, Chin, Faughn, everyone else that worked for Karrde.

And it's her own fualt because she's so socially inept.

She isn't socially inept. She worked as an independent trader for years working with people. The Selonians trusted her to give them a good deal and she respected their customs. She is an able diplomat when she needs to be. In short she is a survivor. She can adapt to whatever she needs to if she must. And I'm not taking this from Zahn. This is from Allen who last month you were praising for promoting Leia. Which BTW Zahn kept up in HoT.

 

Good posts, Tiershon.

lexu:

I've liked Mara since I first read the Thrawn trilogy. I think, however, that she's been abused in the way she's been written. The character she originally was has gradually deteriorated in the EU. By the NJO, I didn't like her much anymore. She somehow turned into this nearly normal, compassionate Jedi, wife (aka plot tool)

Nearly normal, compassionate Jedi?

No offense, but I find that hysterically funny.

The reason I can't stand her is because she almost completely lacks compassion. I say almost because she is compassionate toward HER SON, and occasionally Luke, but everyone else can just go to hell as far as she's concerned. She had zero compassion for Leia when Anakin died, and the best she could muster is, "Gee, I'm sorry I approved of the mission Anakin went on."

of the Jedi Master. And that's just not the cool character I always liked before.

Mara Jade was not innocent.

But we're supposed to think she was innocent, that it wasn't her fault that she slit throats for Palpatine, that she kept her soul pure even as she was murdering people.

Not a bad person, exactly, but definately a messed up one. Imagine the trauma she suffered as a young child, being coerced away from her parents, likely Jedi who were hunted down and killed.

But Jedi weren't supposed to marry and have kids. Her parents may have been Force-sensitive, but it's unlikely they were Jedi.

And an upbringing of an assassin-in-training, being conditioned to kill, completely detached from emotion.

Although we're also supposed to think she made friends and was so sensitive and moral that she got upset when innocents were killed on her missions.

An entire life spent completely devoted to and possessed by the nastiest guy in the galaxy!

One she could've left at any time, but chose not to because she enjoyed her power and prestige too much.

The point is, even if she managed to take herself out of that situation once no longer under the power of the Emperor, I can't see her ever becoming the person we read of in later EU.

I can, because she doesn't "become" anything. She remains almost exactly the same -- rude, devoid of tact, compassion, and any kind of sensitivity whatsoever. Sure, she and Luke boink a lot, but I don't see any genuine love from her. More like the mild affection someone shows with a plaything -- and what do you know, one book even says that Luke has become Mara's favorite plaything.

It just doesn't make sense. She might still be the competent Second-in-Command of Karrde, and she might even manage to become a love interest for Luke, but she'd never be the entirely level-headed Jedi Master, I don't think.

I completely agree. She never could be the level-headed Jedi master, as she's proven over and over since Luke handed her the title. She is most certainly not level-headed, nor is she compassionate, patient, even-tempered, or any of the things a Jedi master should be. Instead she is bad-tempered, insensitive, violent, and views humans as either possessions or non-possessions.

And I don't like her like that! She's boring!

She certainly is. She's presented as a complete ideal, though she most certainly isn't one, and hardly a book goes by without mention of how youthfully beautiful she is -- she still looks 22 while everyone else looks their age.

And it doesn't make sense for her to always have the wise, insightful advice for Luke.

Her advice is neither wise nor insightful, although we're supposed to think it's both. But Luke, lapdog Luke, always bows his head in acquiescence to anything she says.

It makes both of their characters look bad, becuase it's just an overused plot device.

Yep.

 

Shelley: The reason I can't stand her is because she almost completely lacks compassion. I say almost because she is compassionate toward HER SON, and occasionally Luke, but everyone else can just go to hell as far as she's concerned. She had zero compassion for Leia when Anakin died, and the best she could muster is, "Gee, I'm sorry I approved of the mission Anakin went on."

Yes, Mara is NOT known for her tact. Neither was Han- at least in the first movie. Everyone seemed to enjoy his sarcastic banter. Is it so strange that people like me enjoy Mara's comments? She is a very practical and pragmatic person, not prone to sentimentality. This can lend itself to a cool attitude towards people, especially those she hasn't really connected with. This is an understandable personality quirk, especially given her assassin upbringing and her having to pick up and move on multiple times in her life. I think she DOES care, but in a more detached way than other main characters. She can often see the big picture better because of that, but this unfortunately means that she more easily undervalues the... uh... human(?) element of life in the galaxy. Luke highly values the human element. Thus they complement each other.

Touching briefly on the scene in- is it Star By Star?- when Anakin dies and she tells Luke to get a hold of himself "because of Ben"... I can see how that scene would upset a lot of people. A beloved character- er, family member ^_^; - has just been killed and she's fussing at the victim's uncle! But let's try to look at this objectively: she is a new mother. They tend to be very over-protective. Furthermore, she, her husband and her son share a very deep mental link and she has no idea what a surge of dark side power would do to their very vulnerable child. Was it the most tactful thing to say in the situation? No, it probably wasn't, but it's also pretty obvious that she's near-panicking in that scene and not thinking of semantics. Could what she said even be classified as incredibly selfish? Perhaps, but it is the "everybody else can go to pot so long as my baby's safe" selfishness characteristic of a strong maternal instinct. Especially after she fought so long and hard to bring the kid into the world. Was she "perfect" in that scene? No. But her reaction was still- in its own way- very understandable, and very human. Flawed, not perfect, but meaning well.

I think also- in all fairness- that we need to take into account when a character is not being written by their creator. Rabid L/M fan that I am, I have no liking for Callista, but I will agree that she was much cooler as the old-school-jedi-in-a-computer in "Children of the Jedi" than as the I-lost-my-Force-powers-and-am-throwing-myself-a-pity-party whiner in "Darksaber". (Actually, if I wanted to be completely honest, I'd admit that I like her BETTER in "Darksaber" because in my mind she IS so unlikable... how's that for messed up? )



But Jedi weren't supposed to marry and have kids. Her parents may have been Force-sensitive, but it's unlikely they were Jedi.

That's valid enough, but I doubt that would make it less traumatic for her.



Although we're also supposed to think she made friends and was so sensitive and moral that she got upset when innocents were killed on her missions.

If I remember the comic series "Mara Jade: By the Emperor's Hand" correctly, it is indicated that she at least slightly regrets the- shall we say- "collateral damage", but has been trained to immediately blame the Rebels for any discomfort she feels. She is deadly but efficient, and dislikes gratuitous killing.



More like the mild affection someone shows with a plaything -- and what do you know, one book even says that Luke has become Mara's favorite plaything.

Which book was that?



She's presented as a complete ideal, though she most certainly isn't one, and hardly a book goes by without mention of how youthfully beautiful she is -- she still looks 2

 

Even though I disagree with you on several points, I thank you for a thoughtful reply.

Yes, Mara is NOT known for her tact. Neither was Han- at least in the first movie.

Right. But by the third movie, he had changed a lot and become more caring. Mara has not.

Everyone seemed to enjoy his sarcastic banter. Is it so strange that people like me enjoy Mara's comments?

I don't know about "strange," but I don't think her comments are cute or funny when she's endangering a mission/everybody's lives, or when tragedy has happened.

She is a very practical and pragmatic person, not prone to sentimentality.

I'm not talking about sentimentality. I'm talking about compassion and sensitivity. She has neither.

This can lend itself to a cool attitude towards people, especially those she hasn't really connected with.

She has been ensconced in the Skywalker/Solo clan for ten years, they have accepted her with open arms, comforted her when she was ill, told her how wonderful she was, considered her a friend as well as an in-law -- and she still hasn't connected with them? That doesn't make any sense to me.

This is an understandable personality quirk, especially given her assassin upbringing and her having to pick up and move on multiple times in her life. I think she DOES care, but in a more detached way than other main characters. She can often see the big picture better because of that, but this unfortunately means that she more easily undervalues the... uh... human(?) element of life in the galaxy. Luke highly values the human element. Thus they complement each other.

I disagree. I think she dominates him and he has become insensitive since marrying her. She has been a bad influence on him, rather than him being a good influence on her.

Touching briefly on the scene in- is it Star By Star?- when Anakin dies and she tells Luke to get a hold of himself "because of Ben"... I can see how that scene would upset a lot of people. A beloved character- er, family member ^_^; - has just been killed and she's fussing at the victim's uncle! But let's try to look at this objectively: she is a new mother. They tend to be very over-protective.

But not psychotically over-protective, especially when another mother's child has just died. Even after the heat of the moment, so to speak, had passed, she was completely insensitive toward Leia. Luke could "feel her terror" at leaving Ben alone with Han and Leia. Well, gee, Mara, considering your son is alive and perfectly fine, do you think you could be a tad more caring toward your sister-in-law, whose child just DIED?

For that matter, couldn't Luke? Couldn't he tell Mara to just cool it, and perhaps feel a little sorrow for Leia?

Furthermore, she, her husband and her son share a very deep mental link and she has no idea what a surge of dark side power would do to their very vulnerable child.

Yes she does. Luke and Leia's father, the Chosen One, turned to the Dark Side and was slaughtering Jedi right and left when they were born. That didn't drive them insane, and if Mara is so practical, she'd have realized that.

Was it the most tactful thing to say in the situation? No, it probably wasn't, but it's also pretty obvious that she's near-panicking in that scene and not thinking of semantics.

And that she's "panicking" shows she's not nearly as cool and practical as you say. She overreacts. Badly. She makes a fool of herself, and Luke, disgustingly, obeys her immediately.

Could what she said even be classified as incredibly selfish? Perhaps, but it is the "everybody else can go to pot so long as my baby's safe" selfishness characteristic of a strong maternal instinct.

Looks more like psychotic overprotectiveness to me, and a rather deranged insistence that HER SON can't be made even slightly uncomfortable -- "Oh you awful grieving people! Your grief might make him cry!" That kid is going to grow up a huge bundle of neuroses, with his mother insisting on foam-padding everything around

 

But Jedi weren't supposed to marry and have kids. Her parents may have been Force-sensitive, but it's unlikely they were Jedi.

*cough*LukeandCorran*cough*

 

Her parents may have been Force-sensitive, but it's unlikely they were Jedi.

Mara is the daughter of Quinlan Vos and Khaleen. You'll see.

*Hopes Ostrander liked the idea enough to try for it*

 

*cough*LukeandCorran*cough*

*cough*thenomarriagerulewasintheprequelera*cough*

 

I still like Mara.

Hi, Shelley!

 

Hi, Elori!

I still dislike Mara!

 

Dream on <RW.

I'm sick of Han being the standard to which Mara is held to excuse her nastiness.

Even when Han didn't know Luke, and Leia, he still stuck his neck out for them in minutes.

Whne Obi-wan was cut down, Han showed compassion for Luke, and sympathy for Luke. He even Said "May the force be with you", even though he didn't understand it. He cared. He came back to help Luke. Han is as instrumental as Luke in blowing up the DS. He always a was a good man.

If it were Mara, she would make some oblique refernce to her glorious position as Hand #35, and how she would never have gone against Vader because blah blah bLAH, IT SERVED HIM RIGHT.

She's a soulless creature. And people don't seem to comprehend what compassion is. Compassion is the empathy you are able to feel for those in a situation. As in, the tsuanmi, a person loses a whole family. You watch them cry and you cry too, because your have COMPASSION for their feelings, as you can put yourself in their place and know their pain, because you can apply it to yourself.

Mara absolutely and totally lacks compassion. She is thoroughly selfish and can only understand how a situation affects her. She's just a cold, unfeeling, heartless animal-like thing.
Luke isn't that compassionate, either. He is actually kind of detatched, and cold. He looks down on people. He used to be nice, but then after the YJK series, he was so full of himself. He started this after being bonded to the force leech. He was always kind of uppity after a fashion, thinking himself the great venerable MASTER. Mara telling him he's conceited is the blind leading the lame. She's so full of herself, she probably wonders how the galaxy existed she showed up. And why7 I don't know, it's not she does anything of any use. She basically works for Luke and despite her endless references to her great independence, can't let Luke three feet away from her. She clings to him like moss to an oak tree. Smothering all life int he host.
Let's face it, this is a highly dysfunctional pair.

Whereas Han and Leia and all the other couples (like Wedge and Iella , and Kam and Tionne, and Corran and Mirax, etc) ARE pragmatic, and compassionate. They are normal. They have a sense of humor, and love, and can laugh at themselves and don't scoff at "lesser beings". They are there to protect them.

Luke and Mara are a couple of stuck up, self absorbed weirdos, and Luke's been utterly ruined as a character since hooking up with Mara. Period. He was already written badly by the EU authors, but the NJO was total character assassination. All Luke and Mara do is for the Jedi which basically means themselves. Jaina did far more, even being the snotty little whelp she is, for the people and the masses than Luke and Mara did. They were too busy playing footsie, while the rest of the galaxy was being exterminated.

I pity Ben. He can only be crazy after being raised by two old farts that only can see each other past their noses and nothing and no one else.

 

Shelley posted on 2/24/05 9:42am

---

[i]*cough*LukeandCorran*cough*[/i]

*cough*thenomarriagerulewasintheprequelera*cough*
[hr][/blockquote]

*cough*theywereconceivedintheprequeleragenius*cough*

 

*cough*theywereconceivedintheprequeleragenius*cough*

No need to get nasty. I thought you were referring to Luke's marriage, though I couldn't recall if Corran ever married.

Anyway, Luke's parents' marriage was secret and forbidden. I don't know what continEUity fix they've come up with to explain Corran.

She's a soulless creature. And people don't seem to comprehend what compassion is. Compassion is the empathy you are able to fell for those in a situation. As in, the tsuanmi, a person loses a whole family. You watch them cry and you cry too, because your have COMPASSION for their feelings, as you can put yourself in their place and know their pain, because you can apply it to yourself.

Mara absolutely and totally lacks compassion. Luke isn't that compassionate, either. He is actually kind of detatched, and cold. He looks down on people. He started this after being bonded to the force leech. He was always kind of uppity after a fashion, thinking himself the great venerable MASTER. Mara telling him he's conceited is the blind leading the lame. Let's face it, this is a highly dysfunctional pair.

Whereas Han and Leia and all the other couples (like Wedge and Iella , and Kam and Tionne, and Corran and Mirax, etc) ARE pragmatic, and compassionate. They are normal. Luke and Mara are a couple of stuck up, self absorbed weirdos, and Luke's been utterly ruined as a character since hooking up with Mara. Period. He was already written badly by the EU authors, but the NJO was total character assassination.

I pity Ben. He can only be crazy after being raised by two old farts that only can see each other past their noses and nothing and no one else.

Well said, Tiershon. I've seen what happens to kids with psychotically overprotective mothers and wimpy, useless fathers -- they grow up spoiled, self-centered brats, and/or bundles of neuroses who freak if they stub their toe because Mumsy had always protected them from everything.

 

Dream on Suzuki and RW.

Two black haired, brown eyed people don't have the whitest of the white kids. Not happening. Don't botrher with recessive genes nonsense. If you come up with that, you dont' understand recessive genes.



Anyway, Luke's parents' marriage was secret and forbidden. I don't know what continEUity fix they've come up with to explain Corran.


The same thing. It was forbidden. Nejaa had his wife and kid on the side. The real fix is having Corran exist, since his father and Luke and Leia are the same age.

 

Dream on Suzuki and RW.

Two black haired, brown eyed people don't have the whitest of the white kids. Not happening. Don't botrher with recessive genes nonsense. If you come up with that, you dont' understand recessive genes.

What are you talking about?

 

I'm sick of Han being the standard to which Mara is held to excuse her nastiness.

Even when Han didn't know Luke, and Leia, he still stuck his neck out for them in minutes.

After being assured he would be well rewarded. And he only came back to the DS to save Luke because Chewie convinced him to.

Whne Obi-wan was cut down, Han showed compassion for Luke, and sympathy for Luke. He even Said "May the force be with you", even though he didn't understand it. He cared. He came back to help Luke. Han is as instrumental as Luke in blowing up the DS. He always a was a good man.

Yes he was. That's why he saved Chewie's life and lost his commision.

If it were Mara, she would make some oblique refernce to her glorious position as Hand #35, and how she would never have gone against Vader because blah blah bLAH, IT SERVED HIM RIGHT.

At the very least she is Hand #1. This is canon.

She's a soulless creature. And people don't seem to comprehend what compassion is. Compassion is the empathy you are able to feel for those in a situation. As in, the tsuanmi, a person loses a whole family. You watch them cry and you cry too, because your have COMPASSION for their feelings, as you can put yourself in their place and know their pain, because you can apply it to yourself.

I didn't cry watching tsunami victims. I'm not compassionless. Not everyone is emotional.

Whereas Han and Leia and all the other couples (like Wedge and Iella , and Kam and Tionne, and Corran and Mirax, etc) ARE pragmatic, and compassionate. They are normal. They have a sense of humor, and love, and can laugh at themselves and don't scoff at "lesser beings". They are there to protect them.

When have Luke and Mara refered to others as "lower beings"?

Luke and Mara are a couple of stuck up, self absorbed weirdos, and Luke's been utterly ruined as a character since hooking up with Mara. Period.

He was a joke from TTT through HoT. I'll have to post some VotF quotes of Zahn pointing out what a loser and idiot Luke was.

He was already written badly by the EU authors, but the NJO was total character assassination. All Luke and Mara do is for the Jedi which basically means themselves. Jaina did far more, even being the snotty little whelp she is, for the people and the masses than Luke and Mara did. They were too busy playing footsie, while the rest of the galaxy was being exterminated.

Bull. I'll go get masterskywalker's list of Luke's kills in the NJO.

I pity Ben. He can only be crazy after being raised by two old farts that only can see each other past their noses and nothing and no one else.

Ha. I bet he turns out like Anakin Solo was from Conquest until his death. Which would rock and make him one of the greatest Jedi ever.

Two black haired, brown eyed people don't have the whitest of the white kids. Not happening. Don't botrher with recessive genes nonsense. If you come up with that, you dont' understand recessive genes.

Ever seen a pic of Khaleen T_F? She is pale. I imagine that Mara got Khaleen's looks and Quin's midichlorians. Even so. I have a sister who looks nothing like anyone else in my family. It happens.

 

Hi, Elori!

I still dislike Mara!

Good to know Carry on with the debate!

 

After being assured he would be well rewarded. And he only came back to the DS to save Luke because Chewie convinced him to.


PPOR. You say that because you hate the movie characters and give them as little credit for anything as possible. So non sequiter there.



And it doesn't matter if you percieve Khaleen as being pale. My dad had Vos' coloring, that is, he had blue black hair and brown eyes. My mom is a platnum blode. All of us kids have brown hair and eyes, except my brother who has green eyes, but the darkest skin.

It's a mix.


Besides, Khaleen looks like she has pink hair, which means it's dyed, and someone else here told me she's basically Latina looking. Two Latinos don't get a milktoast white strawberry blonde kid with albino-ish eyes. Just don't happen.

And Ben won't turn out like Anakin Solo, because his upbringing is nothing like Anakin Solo's. Ben will never have anything be expected of him, will be spoiled rotten, and no other kid will ever be able to have as a dfriend because as soon as the kids argue, Mara will be standing over the child, knife in hand, looking like a snarling rabid dog, screeching for the kid to stay away from HER SON. Like Rebecca De Mornay in The Hand that Rocks the Cradle.


Ever seen a pic of Khaleen T_F? She is pale. I imagine that Mara got Khaleen's looks and Quin's midichlorians. Even so. I have a sister who looks nothing like anyone else in my family. It happens.

It's wishful thinking.

Anyway, about your sister, she no doubt looks like somone in *someone else's family*.
I think only your MOM knows the answer.........

Can we get Thrawn McEwok over here?

 

PPOR.

NEGtC
Chewbacca also convinced Solo to turn around at Yavin and head back into the Death Star brawl to save Luke Skywalker's life.

You say that because you hate the movie characters and give them as little credit for anything as possible. So non sequiter there.

If I hate movie characters why did I give the credit to Chewie? If I hate movie characters why is Chewie #1 of all time in my book? I love the movie characters. But I do grow tired of them having to save the day every time and be the focus of everything. Original characters break up the monotony. Without people like Mara, Bel Iblis, Karrde and Kyp it would be Luke, Han and Leia vaping superweapon after superweapon. Villian after villian. It was already boring and stale after JAT.

And it doesn't matter if you percieve Khaleen as being pale. My dad had Vos' coloring, that is, he had blue black hair and brown eyes. My mom is a platnum blode. All of us kids have brown hair and eyes, except my brother who has green eyes, but the darkest skin.

Well. My mom and dad both have dark brown to black hair, brown eyes and slightly darker than average skin. I have very green eyes and near black hair. My sister has blue-green eyes and light brown hair.

Besides, Khaleen looks like she has pink hair, which means it's dyed, and someone else here told me she's basically Latina looking. Two Latinos don't get a milktoast white strawberry blonde kid with albino-ish eyes. Just don't happen.

Khaleen has green eyes. Quin has brown. Both my parents have brown eyes and mine are very bright green.

Red hair. Khaleen's could be underneath the purple dye.

And Khaleen is fairly pale. About equal to Mara in the NEGtC.

And Ben won't turn out like Anakin Solo, because his upbringing is nothing like Anakin Solo's. Ben will never have anything be expected of him, will be spoiled rotten, and no other kid will ever be able to have as a dfriend because as soon as the kids argue, Mara will be standing over the child, knife in hand, looking like a snarling rabid dog, screeching for the kid to stay away from HER SON. Like Rebecca De Mornay in The Hand that Rocks the Cradle.

Ben will be spoiled? There is no way he could be spoiled more than the Solo brats. Luke has seen visions of Ben playing with a Wookiee (which has me ). Ben will rock.

Anyway, about your sister, she no doubt looks like somone in *someone else's family*.

We tease her she was switched at birth or adopted constantly.

I think only your MOM knows the answer.........

That's the funniest thing I've ever heard about my parents. You think I'm a conservative Christian? I'm not half of what my parents are. If that is true I will send you $100. No make it $1,000. You're bio used to say "I need more money.".

 

Shelly: Thank you for your own thoughtful reply! ^_^



She has been ensconced in the Skywalker/Solo clan for ten years, they have accepted her with open arms, comforted her when she was ill, told her how wonderful she was, considered her a friend as well as an in-law -- and she still hasn't connected with them? That doesn't make any sense to me.

I actually hadn't been specifically refering to the Solo clan, but until Mara married into the family, she was usually looked upon with indifference or suspicion by the Solos. (The Corellian Trilogy incident is rather infamous among Mara fans.) And as far as the NJO goes she was shown bonding with Leia in Vector Prime and was Jaina's training master... despite the fact that she hadn't really spent much time with the family over the years. She was still trying to detach gracefully from Karrde's organization, then it was hinted that she and Mirax were out doing stuff during the YJK series. Anything else I'm rather likely to attribute to old habits dying hard... and bad writers, of course.



I don't think her comments are cute or funny when she's endangering a mission/everybody's lives,

At the risk on enraging Tiershon_Fett with another Han analogy, (my apologies, T_F... ^_^; ) was Han "endangering a mission/everybody's lives" when he told Warlord Zsinj to "kiss his wookiee"? I still laughed at the line. Or when he's mouthing off when they're all getting shot at in the detention block trying to save Leia? I love that whole scene.



Luke and Leia's father, the Chosen One, turned to the Dark Side and was slaughtering Jedi right and left when they were born. That didn't drive them insane, and if Mara is so practical, she'd have realized that.

Hmmmm... I don't think the situations are equal. Anakin/Vader didn't even know he HAD children. Yes, he was very powerful, but his children were safely and effectively hidden from him for years. There is also no evidence that he and Padme shared a Force link. Now, Luke and Mara were linked and very aware of their son. And a massive joint healing effort took place during Ben's gestation, an effort that was centered in and progressed out from the womb.



Looks more like psychotic overprotectiveness to me, and a rather deranged insistence that HER SON can't be made even slightly uncomfortable

For now- again- I think we can attribute this to new mother syndrome. As far as what the future portends, I actually tend to imagine Mara as the type of mom who makes her kids pick themselves up and brush themselves off if they fall down. The type who realizes that they have to do things for themselves and deal with the consequences. That was what she was preaching to Luke in VotF, right?



All the other characters have to face up to their mistakes, but she never does.

Han's smuggler's past, Luke's betrayal of the Light Side/New Republic during Dark Empire, Kyp fate after Cardia... none of these were ever really addressed. Sure Kyp gets a perfunctory trial and a slap on the wrist, but really, this is not a unique problem but rather endemic to the Star Wars universe.



He also Sue-ifies her to a revolting degree, hoisting her up to Vader's level, if not higher.

While my mind did not jump to the word "revolting", I nevertheless didn't entirely agree with that either. Zahn is my favorite author, but he does have the Mary-Sue (not Mary-Jane, apologies... ) tendancy. Case in point, the deification of Thrawn: he was a awesome and very well-balanced for a villian, but still capable of ruthless and destructive behavior if it suited him. In HoT and Survivor's Quest we are encouraged to think of him an incredibly noble and working for galactic good. Mara's background held up pretty well in comparison! Seriously though, Zahn says that Mara thinks she "wasn't really in the Dark Side" in VotF, then turns around and has her mowing down slavers in so-called "righteous anger" in the short story "Jade's Solitare"

 

Shelly: Thank you for your own thoughtful reply!

No problem. See, Mara fans and Mara-haters can get along.

And Ben won't turn out like Anakin Solo, because his upbringing is nothing like Anakin Solo's. Ben will never have anything be expected of him, will be spoiled rotten, and no other kid will ever be able to have as a dfriend because as soon as the kids argue, Mara will be standing over the child, knife in hand, looking like a snarling rabid dog, screeching for the kid to stay away from HER SON. Like Rebecca De Mornay in The Hand that Rocks the Cradle.

Hehe! That's exactly what she'll do. She'll be on Ben like a leech, and fight all his battles for him. She'll bully his teachers into giving him A's because lower grades upset him. If he somehow manages to make a friend, and brings said friend home, Mara will be on that poor kid like a starving dog on a side of prime beef: "Who are you? What do your parents do? Don't they have enough money to buy you designer clothes like I buy for Ben? And stand up straight, for sith's sake, do you want to have rounded shoulders? Don't you know how to comb your hair? Now what...you're crying?" *sigh* "Ben, do you really want this crybaby sissy for a friend? Anyway, you don't need any friends except for your own mother."

I actually hadn't been specifically refering to the Solo clan, but until Mara married into the family, she was usually looked upon with indifference or suspicion by the Solos. (The Corellian Trilogy incident is rather infamous among Mara fans.)

And their indifference and suspicion was entirely understandable. I know we're supposed to think they should've trusted her implicitly because she helped them at the end of The Last Command and saved the twins. I disagree. Things aren't quite that simple. Yes, she did help them, yes, she did save the twins. But she also tried to kill Luke, and she'd also worked her whole life for Palpatine. Then after the Thrawn books, she wasn't exactly your model citizen, flitting around working as a smuggler, occasionally showing up to be rude and mouthy: "Shut up, Calrissian, I need to talk to Solo," etc.

And as far as the NJO goes she was shown bonding with Leia in Vector Prime

Where? I think Leia hugged her and piled compliments on her, but I didn't see any reciprocation from Mara. The author gloated about how Jaina seemed more like Mara's daughter than Leia's, and how he enjoyed "writing that dynamic" (so began the degradation of Leia and elevation of Mara that permeated the NJO). I also recall Mara cruelly teasing Leia when she was concerned about Jaina. Wimpy Luke makes no effort to stand up for his sister, Leia "sighs helplessly" (one of about eighty-seven times in that book alone) and says Mara has a mean streak, and Mara snickers (but of course the book has to make note of her "pretty face," one of about ninety-four times in that book alone, to say nothing of the near-constant references to her beauty in the rest of the NJO).

and was Jaina's training master... despite the fact that she hadn't really spent much time with the family over the years.

Yeah, so why does her bond with Jaina suddenly override Leia's bond with Jaina? Why does the whole family implicitly trust her? From whence came their total respect, admiration, and adoration?

She was still trying to detach gracefully from Karrde's organization, then it was hinted that she and Mirax were out doing stuff during the YJK series.

Uh huh, so I don't understand when she trained enough to be worthy of the Jedi master title.

Anything else I'm rather likely to attribute to old habits dying hard... and bad writers, of course.

There seemed to be a lot of bad writers in the NJO. Of those who wrote her more sympathetically, they also elevated her to goddess status, and made sure to pile as much degradation on Leia as possible at the same time (Tyers).

At the risk on enraging Tiershon_Fett with another Han analogy, (my apologies, T_F... ^_^; ) was Han "endangering a mission/everybody's lives

 

I say she's alright...but she is EXTREMELY overrated.
She's not even that cool!