Mara Jade Hater Club

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by rngenzi, Apr 14, 2001.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Moderators: Bardan_Jusik, Sinrebirth
  1. Obi_Wans_love_child Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2001
    star 4
    I dont know about in 5 minutes. I dont think she says that. Later on she does say it but that is a little further down the line.

    OWLC
  2. Aunecah_Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 5
    Hasn't Mara been lecturing Luke about unilaterally declaring himself a Jedi Master after only ten years of service? How many yeras did she take to become a Jedi Master - 7?

    OWLC : You have to wait for my reply becuase I'm going to need ample time to reply, and right now I have but ten minutes and am doing a bunch of other things along with posting in here.

    Aunecah_Skywalker
  3. Aunecah_Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 5
    I am pretty sure I read somewhere (though I can't figure out where I read it) that the reason Luke was fixed with Mara because everyone (as in the *authors*) felt bad for all the torment they put him through and decided that he finally needs to have a life.

    I wanted Luke to marry so badly. I just couldn't see why Leia can live a "happy" life with Han and her children while Luke sits in his room alone and wallows in self-pity.

    When I heard from my teacher that Luke finally married - a woman named Mara Jade - I was so happy. I picked up the Hand of Thrawn dualogy books and frantically read through them. Three chapters into the first book, I lost half my excitement. The way Zahn portreyed Luke just destroyed the book for me. This is not to say that I don't enjoy Leia's and Han's POV, but when a main character's characterization is poorly done, then the entire book loses some of its strength.

    By the time I began Vision of the Future, I simply was non-enthusiastic and continued reading only because I wanted to finish the dualogy.

    Zahn is a great author. His writing styles is not too complex, and I liked his battles - the complexity of them, and the way they appear like real battles.

    But he was simply not very great at writing emotions, at giving his own characters any weaknesses. And he basically sunk Luke to the bottom of the ocean, just to show that Mara would be able to single-handedly pull him all the way back up.

    I was very unsatisfied with the ending, also. The reason for which Luke asked Mara to marry him seemed unnatural. Also, the fact that they never really explored Luke's and Mara's married lives (aft. the book) and suddenly here we are in the NJO, in which Luke is willing to die for Mara and (esp.!)vice versa.

    Aunecah_Skywalker
  4. Sreya Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2000
    star 2
    The whole marraige was done badly... because they shouldn't have married in the first place. Talk about a dysfunctional relationship! She wanted, and tried, to kill him, he's trying to train her, she blames him for all that's wrong in the universe, he tries to excuse everything wrong she's ever done...

    Gee, if the genders were swapped, we'd have a classic spouse abuse story!

    *looking around* *sniff* I'm gonna miss this place! :_|

    Sreya
  5. Jedi_Suzuran Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 5
    Classic spouse abuse story is right.

    Also, Aunecah brings up a great point. Mara has no right whatsoever to lecture Luke on being a Jedi Master after 10 years. So what? He knew of the Force way longer than Tang did.

    And she became a Knight, let alone a Master, in less than 10? [face_plain]
    Uh-huh, sure, you have a right to lecture, Mara.

    Not.
  6. Aunecah_Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 5
    Sreya : That is so true. It's basically how Luke and Mara function. Mara blames Luke for everything that's wrong in the universe - and then says that it's wrong because he's trying to make everything right. Luke, looking at everything from the opposite pole, completely ignores or forgives Mara's actions.

    I just have a question. If by some miracle Luke and Mara divorce, who would Ben go with :confused:

    Aunecah_Skywalker
  7. DVader316 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2000
    star 7
    She would get custody, of course. She'd probably somehow convince everyone that Luke was unift and have him locked up.
  8. Aunecah_Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 5
    Dvader316 : That was what I was thinking too.
  9. Jedi_Suzuran Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 5
    DVader, that is spot on.

    Knowing Luke, he'd take it as a matter of course that he shouldn't have custody of Ben. He's lost so much of his self-esteem and confidence already, he'll think it's Mara's right to have Ben. [face_plain]

    *gags*
  10. DVader316 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2000
    star 7
    Maybe if that did happen Ben would grow up resenting Mara, and maybe he'd finally slice her up with his first lightsaber when given the chance.



    I can dream, cant I ?
  11. Aunecah_Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 5
    Interesting thought. But that would just make Luke even more depressed. Because he "loves" Mara.

    I wonder why Obi_Wans_Love_Child suddenly stopped visiting this thread. I was so looking forward to his answer.

    In the meanwhile, I have a request: I want to see how much difference there would be in my writing style if I write an "academic" essay about why we are justified to dislike Mara as opposed to something like what nanotubes are and how they work. I also want to see how long the essay is going to turn out to be. Give me a comprehensive, objective list of various reasons as to why you dislike her (w/o any "she sucks" kind of messages please ;)). And one day, when I finish it, I'm going to post it in here.

    Aunecah_Skywalker
  12. Jedi_Liz Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2000
    star 6
    I just have a question for you guys: how did you come to this conclusion?:

    Mara blames Luke for everything that's wrong in the universe - and then says that it's wrong because he's trying to make everything right. Luke, looking at everything from the opposite pole, completely ignores or forgives Mara's actions.



    Where in the *books* does it say that?

    Is it in the NJO books? Is there evidence to back this up?


    Leaving now........




    EDIT: I am leaving because (a) I am a Mara FAN and (b) I'd rather increase the post count for the Fan Club, and (c) I would never believe that they would get divorced.



    EDIT2: Okay, maybe I misread that thing that Aunecah said, but it seemed that way.

    Not that anyone cares, but I think Luke should have moved his Academy off Yavin after the incidenct of Exar Kun. But that is just my opinion. I respect your opinions, but only when mine are respected in return.


  13. DVader316 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2000
    star 7
    Why start a debate and then leave ? That doesnt make any sense.
  14. Jedi_Suzuran Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 5
    Jedi_Liz, no one said Mara blames Luke for everything wrong in the universe.

    We say that she blames Luke for things which she has no right to bring up.

    His past relationships, the location of the Jedi academy, his declaration of Jedi Master. No one mentioned the universe as a whole.

    If any of us said that, point it out, because I don't think we did.
  15. Tiershon_Fett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2000
    star 5
    I think she's past blaming him for all her woes, at his point.

    It irritates that she plays a little game with Luke, where he gets the 3rd degree from Mara until he comes up with the "right" answer. If he doesn't read her mind, she sighs and gets all impatient. Why does she think she knows everything? Why is she portraed as always being right?

    Like in some book, she asked some rhetorical question and Luke didn't answer. Then she gloated, "oh, he's finally learning.." Learning what? That how ever she does things is right and how everyone else does thigns is wrong? It's a just a style that she has. It doesn't make it the only option. She thinks a certain way, and if someone else doesn't she snaps at them for being slow on the uptake. It's stupid. No two people think alike. It's cheating yourself, esp. in wartime, to not take other people's experience and knowledge into consideration. Mara never does that. It's 'my way or the highway' with her.

    It goes back to today's 'topic'. She has no right to lecture people about the things that happened in their lives. That is their path. They do certain things because they were raised that way.
    Luke was raised to be honest. He is.
    Mara was raised to skulk around and try to play little games, and that happens in most "royal" courts. And she is always trying to see people's "real" motives. Wastes time. Like when she told Anakin he would never learn 'skullduggery' from Luke. So? Luke has done fine all his life without it. Better than Mara has, incidentally.....
    She's bringing her life experience in. That's fine, but it's not better than everyone else's.

    Leia grew up in a court, and she didn't bother with all the stuff Mara lived for. She worked, and ignored all the little intrigues. The difference is, she was raised by good people who loved her.

    It's just another one of the little subtle things I don't like about Mara.

    Thr real reason, I've never said. But it's a god one.
  16. Jedi_Suzuran Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 5
    Luke was raised to be honest. He is.
    Mara was raised to skulk around and try to play little games, and that happens in most "royal" courts.


    Good point, Tiershon. Mara was raised to be sneaky, pompous, and trust no one. Such is the nature of courtiers and sycophants the world (or in this case, galaxy) over.
    She could have over come that tendency. It would have made her a worthy character. She hasn't done that, she still treats people with contempt, including her new "family". [face_plain]
  17. DVader316 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2000
    star 7
    People will only change if they truly and deeply want to, and this obviously wont happen as far as Mara is concerned. It seems that she is perfectly content being a pretentious and selfish person (among other things too numerous to mention).
  18. Jedi_Suzuran Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 5
    True, which is why she hasn't been redeemed and why her becoming a Jedi is pathetic as hell.

    True repentance comes from acknowledging your mistakes, accepting them, and changing for the better. Vader managed to do this. Why can't Tang?

    She's acknowledge them, I think. But has she accepted them and changed? Nope.

    And she won't, either. [face_plain]
  19. Nephrite Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 1
    About the location of the Jedi Academy, it should stay were it is. If a student can't resist the Dark Side be cause of some dark spirit, then he should not be trained. The presence of this dark spirit should be in a way a trial for a future apprentice. Put him in a closed chamber on Yavin 4 with nothing but a lightsaber and teletubbies and if after 2 hours the tubbies are alive and without any injuries unless caused by themself, the kid will be trained.
  20. Jedi_Suzuran Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 5
    LOL!
    The teletubbies are of the dark side. [face_laugh] [face_laugh]

    Luke keeping the academy at Yavin is a good idea. It was the place where he joined the Rebellion, destroyed the first Death Star, and symbolically started his hero journey. It holds many memories for him. Why not there?

    And the Jedi students defeated the dark ghost. So why move it after they proved that they were Jedi? No more ghosts, no more problems. And it's also a world teeming with life.

    I see no problems with the location at all.
  21. Aunecah_Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 5
    Jedi_Liz : I'm just going to post here what I said before:

    "Such as not moving your Jedi academy off Yavin when you first found out a really nasty dark side power was infesting the place."


    Running from danger and threatening situations is not going to help anyone. If Luke has to change the location of the Jedi Academy every single time there is an obstacle/threat, then he's going to be changing the Academy's location forever. Simply put, there isn't a place in this universe where there isn't a problem. Granted, this is the Darkside we are talking about, and the Darkside is a serious hindrance. The young Hopefuls might not be able to counter the influence the Darkside might have on them. But how was Luke supposed to know all this?
    Besides, he learned one of his first "true" lessons in the Cave of Dagobah - that you'll only become what you make of yourself. The cave was engulfed in the Darkside. Should Yoda have not sent him into the cave?

    Morever, Luke had an attatchment to Yavin, possibly because this is where he first "officially" joined the Rebel Alliance, and possibly because this is where he destroyed the Death Star I. Nobody can blame him for wanting to stay there. Anyway, as Mara was so quick to point out (at least indirectly if not directly), Luke was young, inexperienced.


    Aunecah_Skwyalker
  22. Sreya Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2000
    star 2
    Did anyone else notice that KJA ended Champions of the Force with Kyp more or less facing the same thing Luke did? Yoda sent Luke into the dark Cave. Luke sent Kyp into the dark temple. Luke faced his inner darkness. Kyp faced his inner darkness.

    DUH!!!!!

    KJA set up a WONDERFUL correlation here with the movies. The whole point of having the dark temple is that it provides Luke with a testing ground for his students... and a controlled one, at that. The concentration of darkness they face there is enough to test their mettle, so to speak, without putting them into a situation that is dangerously uncontrollable.

    This setup is one of the best I've seen come out of the EU to date.

    Why did Mara protest it? Well, maybe she's afraid of what SHE would see if sent into the dark temple. Any guesses on what she would have to face? And whether she would be able to pass the test?

    My guess is that she would see herself as the Emperor's Hand again, with all the power and prestige that goes with it. Most likely, she'd strike out in anger against the vision, in what she would interpret as the right thing to do. Riiiiight.......

    Sreya
  23. Aunecah_Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 5
    I think Mara would have seen Emperor Palpatine - accusing her of "joining" the New Republic (which isn't exactly the truth) and not killing Luke Skywalker. If she turned - which she should - then she would probably go start another Luke-hunt. This time Luke would either kill her (unlikely - considering the authors) or he would turn her back to the Lightside and marry her (which just is revolting, but probably teh reality).

    Aunecah_Skywalker
  24. Sreya Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2000
    star 2
    Aunecah, that's not reality, it's a twisted demented dimension!!!!!! ;)

    Gang, I know we're losing the clubhouse soon... let's try to keep some team spirit over in the Haters' Community. Always add MJHC with your signature when posting in there, okay?

    :_| I can't even sit online to be here when it happens!

    Darned Mara and her evil powers... they extend even here. :(

    Sreya
  25. Jedi_Suzuran Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 5
    Palpy would definetely have called her a traitor. Mara wouldn't have been able to handle it.

    For all her joining the Jedi, she was proud of the murdering she did as a lackey. Being taken to task isn't something she takes to (notice that when Luke snapped at her about the Lando relationship ["nothing happened"--riiiiiiiiiiight! [face_laugh] ] Zahn made him back down) and she would have acted out in anger, and turned.

    No matter that people hate KJA, he did something right. He had Luke make Kyp face his deeds. Mara has never done that. Why? Cause she's too wimpy to face her past and acknowledge her mistakes.

    I agree, Aunecah, Luke would have killed her (good thing) or turned her to the light and married her. A bad thing, of course, but if she was truly redeemed, then ultimately forgiveable.
Moderators: Bardan_Jusik, Sinrebirth
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.