Characters Mara Jade Skywalker Character Discussion * NEW - Quote Challenge! *

I have just decided to stay in denial about Mara's, Anakin Solo's and Chewie's deaths. Especially Mara's. I think her death is the biggest joke of all. Like someone who decides what is canon extended their middle finger at the fans and said, "The joke's on you." I used to be really into the canon thing and I swore never to do fanfic. But gosh, after starting the NJO, I am disgusted. It is like Mara's disease hit the powers that be at Del Rey as well. How depressing it is to be a Mara fan and sometimes a SW fan. I love it so much, and that is why it upsets me so much. I feel like someday someone will wake up and decide that they were stupid and bring Mara and perhaps the others back and cancel out most of the NJO and beyond and redo it from that point on. Seriously. If there was ever a time for a mulligan, it is now in the EU!!!


EDIT...The Star Trek banner reminds me of Fanboys. If you have seen it you will know why. LOL!

 

Yes, the new Mara Jade novel was a joke. A very cruel one to us Mara fans. But doesn't the words, New Mara Jade novel, look so good in official print?

Dare to dream we may, but those words will never appear officially again. No licensed SW author could understand her except her creator (and several million amateur writers for some reason). The Powers That Be which Jaden referred to couldn't make heads or tails of what Mara Jade was about...so they poisoned her. She came back. Then she had a son. They still couldn't figure her out. And she came back. Their final answer? They had an author write an entirely different persona based on Mara Jade, but nowhere near her true one, and they gave her a dishonorable death. They simply didn't know what to make of Mara Jade. She is that complex, fellow Jaders!

*plays the Force Theme* So, in the end, Mara Jade was a victim of her own personality. She was just too strong of a character to be among the other lesser characters. Her death may have been depicted in the official canon. But we know better that her character lives on stronger in the hands of those who know her best.

Her true fans.

 

So, um, they kept trying to kill her off because they didn't understand her, but she kept coming back? She didn't exactly come back on her own; she's a fictional character. "They" who brought her back are the same "they" who put her through the illness and whatever else in the first place, so it's not quite like she overcame inherent hostility on the parts of TPTB. I think it's just called "character and narrative development," even if some of us would prefer that another direction had been taken.

I agree that few authors truly understand her (though I'm very interested in where you're getting the "several million amateurs" bit; I've been reading Mara fanfic for seven years now and haven't seen anywhere near that many authors, and I have seen plenty of her fans get her wrong too), but I'm pretty sure no one did it to piss anyone off or "give her a dishonorable death." I talked to Karen Traviss in person about this, and she specifically said that she tried to bring Mara's interpretation back to her roots, that she felt that Mara's death was important to the narrative, and that she did her best to give Mara the most honorable death possible. Now, I disagree both with Traviss' interpretation of Mara and the necessity of her death, but I have no reason to accuse her of lying, either. I think we can safely assume that the authors attempted to treat Mara respectfully even if we disagree with how that worked out.

Um, there are other strong characters in SW besides Mara. Just FYI. I think they held their own just fine against Mara - and more than that, I don't think it was ever a real competition.

 

This will sound blasphemous, but Zahn's last two books with Mara weren't all that great, IMHO. I also think Allston, Stackpole, Tyers and a few other SW authors do a good job with her. And I know I'm in the vast minority here, but I enjoyed Karen Traviss's Mara very much. I'd rather read a Karen Traviss (or even Laurell K. Hamilton ) Mara book any day over something like Allegiance.

Just my 2 creds.

 

The joke wasn't cruel. It was just a joke, and a rather obvious, smartly played one at that by some of the oldest (in terms of years online/presence online) Mara fans out there on the net. Club Jade, just like the Wook, the JC, even the official site, play elaborate, well thought out pranks this day every year for laughs and for fun. Not everyone will share that brand of humor, but it's no more false hope than thinking that Khan is roaming around ESB somewhere.

Kudos to Dunc and the rest of the gang over at CJ for another good prank and a good laugh.

QFT. I know Tyers has said that she consulted with Zahn a little bit for the Mara portions of Balance Point, and while I obviously don't know what it looked like beforehand (it could have stank ), I thought she did a good job with her in the finished product. And I've always liked Allston's take on Mara. I think he highlights her unique sense of humor and her sharp wit. Just because they may not live up to Zahn's portrayals of her (all or any) doesn't mean there aren't professional outings that do her justice.

 

Trace, you blasphemer. Actually, when I met Zahn at that workshop I did ask him if there were any other authors whose interpretation of Mara he particularly agreed with, and he specifically mentioned Stackpole, Allston, and Tyers as having done a good job with her. I'm sure there are also interpretations of her with which he disagrees, but he certainly doesn't think he's the only one who understands Mara.

I don't care for the writing of Traviss or Hamilton and did like Allegiance, but I love you anyway, Trace.

*ducks*

 

At the risk of getting a giant thwack, the best part of Allegiance was Han.

And I am seriously spacing, but other than BtEH, what has Stackpole written Mara in?

 

*THWACK*



The NJO and I, Jedi, Bri. I never did get all the way through I, Jedi, so I couldn't comment on that, but while I have a few minor quibbles with her portrayal in Stackpole's NJO books, I think he caught her overall spirit very well, and was dead on in a number of details.

 

"Seriously spacing" was an understatement. I haven't read the NJO since high school and I, Jedi before that. I remember story points, but Stackpole's NJO books aren't ringing any bells re: specifics.

Okay, even though he wasn't your favorite part, you gotta admit Han was written really well in Allegiance. Pretty please?

 

Remember that it was Stackpole who had Mara point out to Anakin the benefits of not using the Force for everything? Even if some people actually saw innuendo in an aunt teaching her nephew. *sigh*

Oh, I thought Han was awesome in Allegiance. Seriously. I do agree that Allegiance isn't the best of Zahn's books, too. I just still like it for what it is.

 

Oh yeah! I was thinking that the Luceno duology was the first one of the series, but it wasn't. I was mixing the titles around in my mind. I actually liked those books, considering I'm not the biggest NJO fan.

I'm apathetic towards Allegiance. Clearly, Han was my favorite character in the book as I thought he was written the best. The climax with everyone "working" together was amusing, too.

 

He did? Now I'm kinda geeking out a little that we 'agreed' on that.

 

Bri: Well, Luceno's duology wasn't the first book of the series, but it was the first duology. Second and third books of the series. And I haven't read the NJO in full in years, either. I really should reread it at some point.

Trace: GMTA. He and Stackpole are friends anyway, so they pick each other's brains when writing each other's characters. And he said that he, Stackpole, and Allston tended to have very similar views on the GFFA as a whole, and when Bri met Zahn at a SQ signing, he did say that Tyers had sent him her manuscript with Mara's parts underlined to ask for his input (which I think was super classy of her). So you were right on.

 

Wait, nuh uh. The Dark Tides come right after VP. Luceno wrote the Agents of Chaos duology. Don't play with the mind, Gabri.

 

Jeez, I'll just hide in the corner over here and keep my opinions to myself next time.

I was trying for a parody of the old strength of character speeches but I guess I failed. Hence, the inclusion of the Force Theme.

Speaking of failure, Travis may have done her best to give Mara the most honorable death possible, but she failed.

 

Oh, rats. Bri, where's my gingko?

madman: You're entitled to your opinion, and are free to voice it. Same for everyone else, including myself, Trace, and Bri. I don't see how it's threatening that someone happens to disagree with you.

You have the right to disagree with Traviss, too - but not everyone's going to agree with you there, either. And I believe the definition of author bashing around here begins with assuming bad faith on the part of the authors, so maybe we could all just assume that TPTB did their best even if we sometimes disagree with them.

And you know, just one last thing: I'm not bashing anyone here. I understand how you can still be bitter over Mara's death. I'm still bothered by it too. But TPTB are not standing over our shoulders insisting that we continue to focus on it two years later. It's the fans themselves who tend to keep going back to it, like picking at a scab. Discussion-wise, Mara has a lot more to offer than just a death most of us didn't care for. Personally, I'd love to see a Mara discussion that didn't go right back to that death. Let's give her her due as an interesting and complex character, and pay more attention to her life than its end. Surely there are plenty of things about her that we'd enjoy discussing.

 

I actually like Jedi Master/Mother Mara more than Emperor's Hand Mara.
She was fun to read in the Thrawn trilogy. I liked her better in the duology, because of the romance probably...
What really made me love her character was her devotion to her son, it's just so heart-warming

I read Allegiance recently, and well, it was ok I think...
but her character is unbelievable at times, for instance
when she's with the pirates and not afraid
I'm the same age as Mara in that book, and I'd be terrified...

I guess it's because of her training but, she's still just a young girl...
you don't realize it the way she's written.
I'd have like to see more of that in the book.

 

Looks like a fake book has sparked more discussion over here than any particular real book has in a long time.

I thought Allegience was 'okay' too. I remember there were spots where I thought Zahn was contradicting himself on the extent of Mara's powers. For example, I think there was one spot where Mara puts herself in an extended healing trance. But in VotF, she seems amazed that Luke can put her in a long trance and heal her. And she's levitating stuff all over the place in Allegience, but Luke has to help her levitate her lightsaber in the cave.

I was just a tad disappointed that Luke and Mara never so much as caught a glimpse of each other, even tho they'd still be strangers. But I guess the point was that they came so close, but nary a glimpse.

 

Argh! They did it to me AGAIN! This is the second year in a row that Dunc and Club Jade have had me going. Last year it was the first part of the announcement that cannon was going to be opened up to more AU interpretations, this year it was a new Mara book! Both times it wasn't until I was half-way through the articles that I remembered- Wait, today is April 1st! "Boy, do I feel sheepish!"

Seriously though, this was a great joke! And on the plus side the fake cover did let me know that there is some great new Star Wars artwork out there!

Hmm... I'm trying to think what the last Star Wars book I bought was... I think it might have been when I either picked up a paper-back copy of Outbound Flight or got a reference copy of Jedi vs. Sith. Completing a Master's Thesis and expecting a baby definitely cuts into your fun reading time! (Not to mention seriously frying your brain! )

Once again, congrats to Dunc for a great joke this year; now, maybe I should go buy a calendar so they don't get me three years in a row...

Edit- spelling.

 

I'm honestly glad that Luke and Mara didn't run into each other in Allegiance. Face to face, anyway. That would have been too much for me.

Agreed. Though maybe in-universe, the ebbing and flowing of her abilities can be explained by the "enhancement" she seems to get from Palpatine. Mara's power/potential in the Force is incredibly strong even without Palpatine, so his aids to her, so to speak, could explain why she's got such extraordinary abilities in her time as Hand. Also, several books/sources make it a point to stress that active practice and attention are needed for one to have the best handle on their Force abilities, something Mara clearly wasn't doing between Palpatine's death and TTT, even beyond. It's not until HoT that she makes a commitment to the Force and the Jedi, and it's only after that that we see a lot of her as a Jedi and her uses of the Force, for obvious reasons.

Just a thought.

 

I do not think that she was poorly written by the authors who have written her (not sure about Travis because I have not nor will I read Sacrifice...so I will not judge her ability, only the fact that she killed Mara). It is more of a storyline issue for me. I am enjoying the pregnant Mara. SHe is aweesome. But this storymine is starting to lead to the crap that is her death. That is where I am coming from. I am unhappy with the powers that be, not the authors. But I sure would nlt write Mara's death even if I were asked by GL himself!

 

I had no expectations that they would actually meet face to face in Allegience. It's pretty clear in HttE that they hadn't met before. It's more that I thought maybe Mara would catch a glimpse of people around the Falcon, and one of them would be a young blond guy. I think she did see Han & Chewie, if memory serves, but didn't know who they were, of course. Or Luke would glimpse a red-headed woman somewhere.


For me personally, the best part of Allegience was that Zahn was writing it when I got to meet him at CIII, and he talked briefly about working on a Mara book where she's still the Emperor's Hand. Not that he divulged many details.

And I agree about Palpatine enhancing Mara's Force-strength. But that doesn't mean she'd have amnesia about how the Force can heal a wound, even if she can't do it herself.

And you know, I found myself thinking that Traviss did an okay job with Mara's character, at least for the first part of Sacrifice. I didn't agree with how Mara went off on her own to hunt down Jacen without even telling Luke, or her falling for the Force-projection of Ben. But if Mara hadn't died in this book, I think alot of people would've considered Traviss acceptable as a Mara-author. Gabri, didn't she tell you she was a Mara fan?

That being said, I am boycotting all her other SW books, just on principle. Though I might give in if I ever see a used copy of some of the Clone Wars ones that include Anakin, Obi-Wan, Bail, etc. Used, as in no residual profits.

 

Yes, she did. As I've said, I mostly disagree with her interpretation of Mara, but her words were that she was a big fan of the character and wanted very much to do her justice.

I think that Jedi-2B and Bri both make good points about that seeming contradiction in Allegiance (which bothered me too, for the record). Mara wasn't keeping her skills as active between Palpatine's death and VotF, and Palpatine often was enhancing her own inherently strong connection with the Force with his own strength, so it does make sense that her abilities could be less at the time of VotF than they were during Allegiance. More than that, I suspect that Palpatine taught her less self-sufficiency in the Force than she would have learned as a Jedi; after all, he wouldn't want her to feel independent from him. I think he taught her more to draw on his connection than her own, and then when he was suddenly gone, she just didn't really know how to focus her own connection very well, and so lost a fair amount of deftness.

However, Michele's right that she should at least have been more obviously aware of the existence of healing trances in VotF, and I do think that's a continuity glitch I'd rather have avoided altogether. But when you consider all the other continuity glitches the EU often features, I think this is a fairly minor one, and easy to retcon. For example, look at Mara's exact words in that VotF scene:

"'Ouch' doesn't even begin to cover it," she told him, feeling a little sick as she resolutely turned her eyes away. The burn was a lot nastier than she'd guessed. "I think I've just decided I'm going to miss the medpac more than I am the bedrolls."

"Don't give up just yet," Luke soothed. His fingers were stroking the skin of her shoulder and neck; and as they did so the pain again decreased. "I know a couple more tricks."

"That feels good," Mara said, closing her eyes.

"I'm putting you into a healing trance," Luke explained, his voice sounding oddly distant. "It can be a little slow, but sometimes it's as effective as a bacta tank."

"I hope this is one of those times," Mara murmured. Suddenly she was feeling very tired. "Yet another wonderful Jedi trick you'll have to teach me sometime. 'Night, Luke. Don't forget to wake me if the bad guys crash the party." -VotF, p. 260, paperback

Nowhere does Mara explicitly state that she was unaware of such a technique, only that she wishes she had the medpac. It's Luke who explains the healing trance as though she's unaware of it, and for all he knows, she is. Unless they've discussed it before, he might well think she didn't know about it. Mara, meanwhile, is in pain, tired, and already falling under the effects of being put into the trance; instead of explaining, "Yeah, I know, I have done this before, thanks" she simply agrees and sinks into the trance. Her comment about having to learn the healing trance could easily be taken as, "I need to be taught that again, but if I say 'again' or 'relearn' it's going to involve explanation I don't have the energy for, so let's just agree and be done with it." There's really no reason for her to go into detail at this exact point, and a good enough reason for her not to.

So yeah, things could (and should) have been worded a little more clearly, but it's not a particularly big deal. That's my take on it, anyway.

Kiyuuchan: I see what you mean, but bear in mind that Mara's trained her entire life to do exactly what she does in Allegiance; additionally, her sense of self-importance has been cultivated for that long, too. Palpatine wanted her to be as supremely confident as she was; she had to act in his name and with his authority. Someone less naturally confident than Mara probably wouldn't have been able to pull it off, and wouldn't have been as effective in the role. Besides, Mara's

 

Okay, you know what's really sad? I was going to pull out my copy of VotF to see if Mara specifically stated she didn't know how to do a healing trance, then I saw that you'd replied and read your comment. Get out of my brain! Also, thanks for doing the leg work.

Edit: You know, regarding Traviss' work, I can't say that I'd personally be a fan of her writing, Mara or otherwise, even if Mara hadn't died. I detested Bloodlines even in a style format. I can't speak for Sacrifice or Revelation because I haven't read them. I just don't like the way she writes my personal favorite characters, primary and secondary. I don't agree on how she portrays them. And I'm not a Mando or Boba fan. *shrugs*

Based on some of the things she said at C-IV, though, I might vaguely entertain the notion of picking up a Vader novel written by her. If I could get over the style and semantics.

 

Yes, SW has no lack of instances where skills/actions/happenings have to be retconned?even when both instances are courtesy of the same author. And Mara's skills aren't nearly as inconsistent as the tons of other things between the OT movies and the prequels, both written by Mr. Lucas himself.

Congrats from me too, Rivad!