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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Mara Jade - what are her best depictions, and what her worst?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Iron_lord, Sep 15, 2014.

  1. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Inspired by this:



    I thought the general topic might deserve further consideration.

    Is Edge of Victory Mara an exceptionally bad depiction? Or is the assessment of her here, unusually harsh?

    Is The Thrawn Trilogy Mara the best depiction of her? Or are there better ones out there?
     
  2. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    ALL OF THEM.

    (Okay, I don't actually think that, but you know someone's going to say it).

    I would say TTT is the best depiction of her by Zahn; as with several of the characters he created he went somewhat downhill as time went on.
     
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  3. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I enjoyed her badassery in TTT. The only aspect I did not like was her "specialness," the whole idea of her being the only Hand and/or the only one with some sort of direct line to the Emperor. That and the idea that she ever outwitted Vader, but I may be thinking of another Zahn book there.

    Have not read the Anderson books but from the passages I've seen, I would not like her depiction.

    Best NJO depictions: the Enemy Lines books, where she was actually funny, and The Unifying Force.

    Worst NJO depictions: the Dark Tide books, Balance Point, Star by Star, and the Edge of Victory books. And I loved the Keyes books except for the Mara pregnancy and birth scene depiction.
     
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  4. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    I thought the Corellia Trilogy had an interesting take on Mara In Authority - she runs a tight ship, but she expects initiative as well.

    She's also very good at "faking anger and impatience" when it's called for.
     
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  5. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 15, 2006
    I read Choices last summer and couldn't stand Mara in it. Wasn't a fan of her role in Allegiance, either. I'd say that her best depictions are in early Zahn works (the nameless trilogy, Sleight of Hand) and that her worst depictions are in later Zahn works.

    There's just such a disconnect between the two regarding her role as Emperor's Hand. The vibe Zahn gave off in his nameless trilogy and in Sleight of Hand was that she had the most rudimentary of training in the Force, and that that training had an incredibly narrow focus: to enhance her abilities as an assassin, and to allow her to telepathically communicate with the Emperor. She definitely wasn't a Jedi --- she was an assassin with just a little bit of darkside training. And by the time of Heir to the Empire, she had no idea how to use a lightsaber.

    Then OMG THE PREQUELS HAPPENED and in Allegiance, she's a lightsaber-swinging, backflipping prequel-era Jedi who can do everything that Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan could because GUYS DID YOU SEE THE PREQUELS??? They had JEDI IN THEM!!! It was even worse in Choices. She and Luke are in the same room watching each other fight the badguys. Luke spends the entire scene drooling over how incredible of a Force user she is and how much control and skill she has, while she spends the whole scene getting pissed off at how incompetent and untrained Luke is. It's just a pathetically-written scene that cranks the idea of worshiping your pet characters up to eleven. The book also has Thrawn warn Palpatine not to underestimate Endor's natives, and predict that the rebels are building a base on a snow planet, though, so really, what should we expect from Zahn at this point?
     
  6. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Luke comments on seeing how she uses it that "You've used a lightsaber before" - and in The Last Command he comments on the difference in style:

    "Yoda never taught me about using the point."
    "The Emperor's philosophy was to use everything you have available."
    "Somehow, that doesn't surprise me."

    So it wasn't quite as bad as that.
     
  7. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

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    Jun 29, 2003
    My first introduction to her was Dark Forces: Mysteries of the Sith, and I wasn't aware she was in any books at the time (I didn't know about the EU). So inevitably because that game totally rocked my impression of her was nothing but positive. And she basically had a similar personality in TTT. But there was definitely a change in the YV series... I dunno how to describe it. While most New Republic-era characters actually became more likable in that series, Mara just sort of became dull. I can't even remember her much in those books aside from whenever she was complaining about something.

    I don't think she ever worked for Luke. If she had to be paired with someone maybe Lando, because I could see them becoming a crotchety old couple constantly harping on one another all the time (and Tendra was just plain boring... they never knew what to do with her). In retrospect Mara was best doing covert opt stuff by herself. And definitely not working with a Jedi council. Argh.
     
  8. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    There's a certain amount of back and forth teasing between Mara & Luke in Survivor's Quest, and some of the NJO books (Destiny's Way springs to mind).
     
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  9. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost star 5

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    May 15, 2006
    OK, you got me. "No idea how to use a lightsaber" may have been an exaggeration. But I do maintain that had her lightsaber skills actually been as good as they were in Allegiance and Choices, they wouldn't have atrophied to the point that they had by The Last Command. There's still a large disconnect there.

    The trend from the last ten years of inserting prequel-era Jedi into the OT era, and especially into the Rebellion itself, is one that has always bothered me. The rebellion era's strengths stem from it not being the prequel era. But OMG LIGHTSABERS!!! and all that.
     
  10. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Her ability to heal herself seemed to be one of the first things to go after Palpatine's death, and the last things relearnt. Even in Vision of the Future, a point is made of how she can't heal herself (she can in Survivor's Quest and Allegiance).
     
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  11. Ackbar's Fishsticks

    Ackbar's Fishsticks Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 25, 2013
    Yeah.

    And it's not just the Jedi who were affected. The prequel era depiction of the Republic became the standard depiction of the Republic, completely ignoring the fact that the prequels happen when the government is at the point of death - it's supposed to be a very big deal that the Republic has become so corrupt and dysfunctional, it's not supposed to be its natural state.
     
  12. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 17, 2011
    The Thrawn Trilogy is hands down her best depiction, as Zahn knew exactly what he wanted to do with her, and as a new character, could very easily make it happen. She was a feisty, competent, force using foil to Luke in that trilogy, and gave us a look at a different aspect of Palpatine's reign. She was allied with the late Emperor, maybe one of the people who was closest to him, and was generally angry over the fact he, and the life she'd had, was gone. As such, it wasn't that hard to understand why she held a grudge against Luke, especially when we then see the "Last Command" Palpatine left behind in her mind. It was an all around good depiction, of a new and interesting character....then the dark times came.

    Early-NJO Mara was dry as stale bread, boring, and really added nothing of interest to any story she appeared in. Not sure if this was something that writers were ordered to do, or if it's because certain writers didn't read the Bantam Era, but it was fairly terrible. From there, she showed signs of improvement in the later novels, and despite what others might say, I thought the small plot point in Enemy Lines, where she became super protective of Ben, made perfect sense and was good writing.
     
  13. Ackbar's Fishsticks

    Ackbar's Fishsticks Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 25, 2013
    To answer the actual question, I liked her best in the Thrawn trilogy, the Thrawn duology, and Survivor's Quest.
     
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  14. Trip

    Trip Force Ghost star 4

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    Dec 7, 2003
    my favorite canon depiction of Mara is probably Balance Point, of all things.
     
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  15. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    I thought Mara in Children of the Jedi was interesting - there, it's pretty clear she knows just how vile some of the things Palpatine does were - when she's describing his combination of The Dark Side + Drugs that was used to turn intelligent beings into "guard dogs".
     
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  16. JediMara77

    JediMara77 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2004
    Best depictions:
    The Thrawn Trilogy
    The Hand of Thrawn Duology
    Survivor's Quest (probably my favorite depiction of Mara)
    Balance Point
    Enemy Lines Duology
    Choices of One

    Worst depictions:
    This could be a very long list. For simplicity's sake, I will say Vector Prime and the Dark Nest Trilogy. I haven't read LotF, so....
     
  17. TheRedBlade

    TheRedBlade Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2007
    For best, I'm surprised no one has thrown in I, Jedi. I thought Stackpole handled her well, which is something few authors can really do.

    Worst: Sacrifice. Because of course the life-long spy goes off on a dangerous mission without any kind of fallback plan or notification of where she's going.
     
  18. Protectorate

    Protectorate Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 11, 2013
    Best
    - Mara Jade: By the Emperor's Hand, save that goofy prologue scene where she is being tested by Palpatine and she "proves" that she's not evil by not killing a guy in a training exercise. So transparent.
    - A Night on the Town, has most of the strengths of BtEH and shows her in her original, bad ass spy and assassin role that is fun to read and think about.
    - Vector Prime, she has a very cool hero moment dueling Yomin Carr who is set up as an insane killing machine all the way through the book. I believe she is the first Jedi to actually defeat a Yuuzhan Vong, even when the Jedi had no idea what they were all about. And all this while infected with Space-AIDS.

    Guilty Pleasures
    - Extinction, Mara drawn in a ridiculous super-hero style while being portrayed as the foremost of the Emperor's agents, but still clearly below and not as special as Vader. This is really nothing more than a cameo, but one that says a lot IMO.
    - Children of the Jedi, I actually kind of like the idea of a Mara/Lando relationship and think it works pretty well. But of course it was all a ruse because Mara needs to be absolutely virginal before having Luke's baby or something. Why would you even worry about overwriting that information? And why would Lando be some sort of non-sexual entity in direct competition with his film depiction?
    - Union, really kind of goofy, and is sort of a non-story when taken as a whole, but I found the portrayal of Mara slowly learning to relax and doing stereotypical girly stuff like a spa day and dress shopping really sort of awesome. With bad-ass women like Mara and most Star Wars females, there seems to be a tendency to push them more towards stereotypical manly endeavors like fixing up ships and drinking lots of booze to reinforce their status as amazing fighters. Some of that stuff in Union really helped round Mara out I felt, while still keeping her as the formidable professional that she is (see: wiping the floor with one of Daala's Imperial Guard while dress shopping).

    Worst
    - Hand of Thrawn Duology, cannot stand preachy characters, and this is one of the worst examples. I honestly think its in the same realm as LotF and FotJ's decision to make Daala Chief of State. Maybe, MAYBE Luke needed a talking to about his missteps in the intervening years between Zahn books, but to have that come from a former agent of the Emperor, and then for that to lead to them falling in love makes no sense. If anything, they should have bonded over their struggles with the dark side or having to find a place in the world after the deaths of their mentors, but instead we have to distance Mara so far from the dark side and from the Emperor, that Zahn can't address those issues honestly. Issues that are actually intriguing and worth writing about. Luckily the rest of the book is far more fascinating and makes up for this weak section.
    - Allegiance, most everything has been said before, but this is Zahn completely off the rails. At least is made some sense for Xizor to get the better of Vader, since he is set up as a rival of Vader's that he can defeat later on. To have Mara be a rival to Vader makes no sense from a narrative stand point except to slam the reader's head into the desk and show them, "Look, see! Mara is great! She's on par with Vader and maybe better than Luke! See how great she is?" I already know Mara is great, I don't need her to punk Vader and have Luke admire her l33t Force skills for that. Especially if those scenes have absolutely no payoff within the story they're in. I don't even really have a problem with Palpatine messing with Vader's head and making him think that he's about to be replaced, but you can't have it both ways Zahn. Either she is an evil dark-sider that Palpatine is grooming as a potential successor, or at least someone that could potentially fit the role as a Sith apprentice solely to mess with Vader, or she's someone who is non a dark-sider and is just being used as an experiment because Palpatine needs a non-darkside agent for some unexplained reason.
     
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  19. fett 4

    fett 4 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2000
    It was the best if times it was the worst of time, it has to be Timothy Zahn.

    The best is TTT an interesting character who finds out she has been manipulated big time and how she deals with it.

    Worst Allegiance. She beats Darth Vader for gods sake
     
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  20. TheRedBlade

    TheRedBlade Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2007
    One thing that always bugged me there: That story is pre-ANH, and Mara is around Luke's age (younger, now, officially?). However, she doesn't...achem...look like she's 15/16/17.

    This always seemed silly to me, to. Maybe Luke could use this to explain why she didn't go full-on cackling-and-lightning Sith, but I can't believe that Palpatine would teach her any way to access the Force without tapping into her anger.
     
  21. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Best:
    TTT
    Survivor's Quest
    Enemy Lines duology
    The Unifying Force (Kicks. Nom Anor's. Butt.)

    Worst:
    Jedi Academy trilogy (Don't know why, but she just annoyed me.)

    Other than that, I think most of her appearances are generally okay. She was a bit whiny when she was pregnant, yeah, and there were times when her attitude towards Luke grated, but there was never any other specific source I can remember where I disliked her completely throughout the entire thing. Although there is one special category...

    Confuses Me:
    Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice

    I actually find myself literally confused. Because I actually enjoyed her parenting of Ben, and thought the whole thing was overall emotionally well-done. But at the same dime, she just acted so stupid, not telling Luke what she was going out to do...I just can't decide.
     
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  22. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    She states outright that she "let negative emotions fuel what I did" in I, Jedi, and "learned to tap into the dark side of the Force" in The Essential Guide to the Force. In this case it may be like Anakin in the PT - he can make use of the Dark Side in his fight with Dooku, but it's not until he "pledges myself to your (Palpatine's) teachings" that he has "turned" fully.

    "Service to others" as opposed to more selfish motivations, may have kept her as more of a "Grey" Force user than a "Dark" one.
     
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  23. Solent

    Solent Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 2001
    I lked her during the NJO, but couldn´t stand Zahn´s version. Her character arch is about letting go of a past that is not going to return, with no mention to the point she worked for the worst person in the galaxy. Really, after Alderaan, anybody working for the empire was either evil, very afraid, or stupid enough to buy the rebels had done it. I almost threw the book away after Leia says she´s sorry killing Palps ruined her life.
     
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  24. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

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    Jul 19, 1999
    So has A1983 found this thread yet? Ah yes, she has.

    I'm going with Balance Point for best depiction.
     
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  25. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    In the Marvel SW comics, there was an Alderaanian stormtrooper - who pinned the blame on Bail & Leia, for provoking the Empire - yet still came across as decent if wrongheaded.
     
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