ST Mark Hamill (Luke Skywalker) in Episode VII

he's selfless, but I think he saw potential in himself. Had high expectations for himself. he wants to be the first person to explore the entire galaxy, and it was also then that he vowed to some day come back and rescue his mother.

I think this can be explored via remarks from Lucas. As Anakin matured, his desires became more and more greedy. From Lucas's point of view, Anakin's desire to save Padme at all costs may seem selfless, but it's actually selfish because he doesn't want to lose her...so it's more about himself and what he can or can't handle, or what he can or can't live with.So, wanting to save everyone and everything can be seen as a greedy quality if taken to extremes.

 

What if the cyborg isn't actually a cyborg?

A few weeks ago, I posted that maybe the reason Luke is not around (the missing/captured rumour) is that he lives with Imperial space - where he feels a Jedi can do the most good, leading a new rebellion or surviving as an outlaw fighting Robin Hood style for the oppressed, similar to the "Shade" idea in the "Reclamation" story that was supposed to be a new animated show.

What if the cyborg armour is some kind of disguise?

 

I'm talking about Anakin as portrayed in TPM and Anakin as portrayed in AOTC. Palatine has clearly had some influence - which is why the Anakin and Palpatine scene was included late on - to make that influence and manipulation clear.

 

Pure psycho.

 

My point exactly. Thank you Granger

 

Sure, Palps definitely stroked his ego. Hard to say how anakin would have turned out if he had never met Palpatine. Palpatine didn't give him his power, after all...maybe in discovering that power on his own, if it would have corrupted him.

 

Quite possibly. But we can only really go off what we're shown onscreen, no?

 

Makes me wonder how long Palpatine knew about Padme. Padme was the biggest driver in his turn to the dark side, and Palpatine exploited that to its full effect. I wonder if Palpatine knew all along or just near the end when Anakin started having dreams. Also, there's a 10 year gap between ep 1 and 2 that we don't get to see Palp and Ani interacting. It'd be fascinating to learn how they interacted over the years.

 

Yeah... I guess Anakin would have talked to him about her at least between TPM and AOTC. He must have known for a good while. Does it crop up in TCW? I can't remember.

 

10 bucks says Palpatine gave him those dreams

 

I think anakin was a confident young boy when we first meet him in TPM but my thinking is when the whole mediclorians and qui gon telling the council "he is the chosen one" is what started anakins fall..if you tell an 8 year old kid he is going to be the greatest Jedi ever I'm pretty sure that's going to make him arrogant and disrespectful as he grows to be a teenager why listen to obi wan, yoda and mace if he is told he is destined to be greater

 

I have thought of that as well, and there probably is some merit to that idea. However, I like to think that Anakin's power manifested on its own at some point. Saying that someone else (whether it's Plaguies or Palpatine or whomever) was REALLY the one responsible for his existence and actions takes away from his character, imo.

The same way I feel about Palpatine's rise to power. If we find out that Darth Ruin, or Darth Plaguies, or Darth Bane or whoever was behind it all, it lessen's Palpatine. "there's always a bigger fish" can only go so far.

 

Dooku was in his 70's when he became a Sith and in his 80's ordering the deaths of thousands.

The point is that it existed in the old EU and the early drafts show Lucas's intentions and in fact, these things wind up in the novelizations, thus making them canon. ​

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No, the beard being short is after he trimmed it and in a later part of the film. The longer, scraggly beard is when he's first found.

Exactly. Anakin had those visions because of his own actions leading into seeing where his future lay.

 

In these sorts of discussions, we often fall into these gray areas where we wonder just how much Palpatine manipulated Anakin and whether or not this somehow takes Anakin's culpability or free will away. I don't have any definitive answers because I tend to feel that Palpatine played a large role offscreen, which the movie clearly suggests, and yet, being a reader of Foucault, I also believe that, despite being produced by those elements that influence us the most, there are also always areas of resistance that exist that Anakin surely had plenty of interaction with -- namely, the Jedi Order and Padme.

It's difficult to reconcile these opposites -- Palpatine obviously helped to instill a totalitarian ideology in Anakin's head, but Padme and the Jedi were proponents of democracy. So how is it exactly that Anakin ends up desiring totalitarianism more than democracy? Well, Palpatine has made democracy seem unpalatable to the hero Anakin who wants to fix everything quickly like he can do with his power. Again, Palpatine is there pushing Anakin in a new way -- not merely grooming him as he surely does in private moments, but actually making democracy not work.

And yet, other Jedi didn't turn. Anakin's sort of a perfect storm case, a whole lot of things coming together at the same time to make him desire power -- but it's unarguable that had Palpatine not existed, Anakin likely would never have turned, despite his own culpability of choosing power over freedom.

 

not talking about that, just that he sent the dreams themselves. It is still on Anakin in how he took everything

 

I think Palpatine manipulated this thread out of revenge because it's about Mark Hamill.

 

Goooood. Goooooooood.

 

sure, sure. It works just fine as a scenario, and it's a good idea...I just get slightly wary when hearing stories of something bigger behind the scenes manipulations. It works, but shouldn't be taken too far, imo. that's just a personal preference, really.

 

Yes, the only "behind the scenes manipulation" by Palpatine is over the political and military situation.

In regards to his influence on Anakin, Palpatine is a Satan figure - like the devil, he whispers in Anakin's ear but does not, cannot, make Anakin do something he doesn't want to do. He can influence a situation so that Anakin's response will be in his best interest*** (the fight with Windu, executing Dooku, etc.) but everything Anakin does, he does because he wants to.

*** Meaning he is intelligent enough, and knows Skywalker well enough, to be able to predict the most likely response.

 

I believe George intended Palpatine to be like the serpent in the Garden of Eden during RoTS.

 

Exactly.

 

yeah it's like the Devil tempts you, but you still decide with what to do with it

 

Quite literally offering the gift of knowledge to cause sin

 

Remember, Jedi can see the future. There's no reason for Palpatine to send something to Anakin, when he can see it on his own. Anakin's visions of Padme's death is similar to Shmi's suffering and the suffering of Han and Leia. The latter of which started happening before it happened.

 

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