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Discussion Mark Hamill (Luke Skywalker) In Episode IX

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode IX - Spoilers Allowed' started by G-FETT, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. nightangel

    nightangel Force Ghost star 6

    Oct 31, 2014
    I really wished they would have left all the religious stuff out of the ST like church of the force, Luke as Jesus and a messiah. Not everyone is into religion. :rolleyes:
  2. Oissan

    Oissan Force Ghost star 7

    Mar 9, 2001
    I don't see how there is any particular religious stuff in the ST, so how could you wish for it not to be there? :confused:

    But beyond that, you not being into religion doesn't mean that someone who is telling a story has to cater to that. It's not like religious themes are automatically on the nose, nor are all themes that also exist in religion non-existent elsewhere. The same archetypes exist in all sort of non-religious stories as well. So just because someone sees something that he links to religion, doesn't mean that this is how the author got there as well.

    Though even if it were, what would even be the problems with it?
    Star Wars had these themes right from the get go. It's not like Lucas kept it specifically out of it and similarities only popped up later on. One doesn't need to be religious for a story that includes religious themes or archetypes to work. They can work just fine independently from religion, and many of them are religious and non-religious themes at the same time. The entirety of stories that have been told over history are a wild mish-mash of all sorts of stuff, and that includes plenty of religious themes. If you want to get rid of that, you can throw out most of the biggest stories that exist out there.
  3. MasterPrince713

    MasterPrince713 Jedi Knight star 2

    Sep 13, 2017
    Or the comparisons of Luke and King Arthur. Stretching much people?

    I won't complain regarding the Jesus thing too much if they actually bring Luke back to life.
    Django Fett and -LordSkywalker- like this.
  4. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Feb 28, 2016
    And it make too exclusive to Christian fans
    nightangel likes this.
  5. Darth Nikean

    Darth Nikean Jedi Knight star 3

    Mar 30, 2016
    Probably another reason the movie failed in China Thayer are not religious or alow religion of any type. I neons mind it kinda
    nightangel likes this.
  6. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Force Ghost star 5

    Aug 14, 2000
    Not stretching at all imo (re TFA at least).

    Luke = Old King Arthur, Achoo = Avalon, Kylo = Mordred, Rey = Young Arthur, “saber in the snow” = “sword in the stone.”

    Mark actually referred to the legacy saber as “Excalibur” in an interview.

    As for the “Space Jesus” thing - I’m not Christian, and I’m not religious, but I felt the symbolism was very clear and I personally loved it.
    Jedi Merkurian and themoth like this.
  7. MasterPrince713

    MasterPrince713 Jedi Knight star 2

    Sep 13, 2017
    Yes, but the fact that the comparisons are made by people with high IQs takes the fun out of SW.
  8. Django Fett

    Django Fett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Nov 7, 2012
    It didn't start with the ST, it didn't even start with the PT, it's been there since the beginning.

    The fallen Jedi in Anakin/Vader equates to the fallen Angel although the why's and wherefores aren't explained much. Hiding a baby to protect them from evil (baby Moses) wasn't first done with the hidden Skywalker twins, nor was someone emerging from a desert wilderness to be a saviour original when Obi-Wan does it in ANH. Redemption is a well trodden tale that seems to originate with the bible, as does the act of performing miracles that we can equate to the powers of the Jedi. We all know the religious undertones within the PT as well as the allegories to the politics of the time and SW lends from fairy tales as well as myths and legends.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  9. Lucillalin

    Lucillalin Jedi Knight star 1

    Jan 10, 2016
    Chinese fiction and entertainment is full of their old religions, whether they believe on them or not (I know only South East Asian Chinese culture and in that people are -really-superstitious, even if not religious. And whatever their religion, deep down they trust in their ancestors, fear black magic and a host of different spirits) In any case, Lucas took a lot of stuff from Asian myths and faiths (and films) and if you switched the settings, costumes and dropped the spaceships, you could transfer the whole story in to the cheesiest wuxia, down to the heart throb villain. The thing is, China doesn't -need- Star Wars, for them their own legends and myths are the most important and still inspire countless of movies and series.
    More culturally West-connected asians like Singaporeans like Star Wars more, because for them, Western popular culture is equally familiar as Asian one.
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  10. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Oct 31, 2012
    We have just posted a new rules and policy thread. Everyone should take a look:

    This part in particular:

    Make no mistake from here on out the staff here will be vigilant and absolutely unforgiving in its enforcement of this rule. Above all else these forums are meant to be a fun place to discuss Star Wars but for far too long they've been little more than a cesspool. No more. If you want to rant endlessly about how awful the films were or if you refuse to hear any kind of criticism about them I have only one thing to say... go get your own blog and post there. If you wish to engage in constructive conversation that remain respectful of one another then please stay. There is no middle ground. This is how it's going to be. To paraphrase a certain campaign slogan... We're Gonna Make the Forums Fun Again!
    TadoFett and Jedi Merkurian like this.
  11. Marathonjedi77

    Marathonjedi77 Jedi Knight star 1

    Nov 2, 2012

    I've been saying this sort of thing for years and fully believe in the theory established by this train of thought on Luke's return.Just from a secular point of view Jesus was the ultimate martyr.Imagine what JJ could do with his return in the flesh if this is fully realized.Would the Knights of Ren be like the Deciples if they had fallen away?Would Luke's return sway them back?It could be anything epic.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  12. Rodie

    Rodie Jedi Master star 4

    Apr 16, 2014
    Indeed, if Rey hears Luke's voice in IX, turns around to see him, thinking it'll be his Force Ghost, but it's actually Luke there in the flesh, that would be amazing. Luke being able to move back and forth between the spiritual and physical plain is something that would redeem his death in TLJ and open up some very interesting narrative possibilities for the final chapter of the Skywalker Saga.

    Let Luke's disappearance at the end of TLJ be not his death but his leaving the island, leaving his isolation. And have him reappear elsewhere later on.

    But I don't want to see Luke in IX as simply Obi-Wan's Ghost 2.0.

    I'm OK with any Biblical parallels that come with that choice because it only plays into the mythology/legendary vibe of this saga when it is at its very best.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  13. Mother_Talzin

    Mother_Talzin Jedi Master star 4

    Aug 23, 2014
    They've had a character capable of that - Mother Talzin of Dathomir, she was able to exist in both the physical and spiritual realms. She did however tap into the dark side of the Force with her ancient magicks via spirit ichor / living force. If spirit ichor flows inside the island, perhaps Luke could conjure it to his benefit, but at what cost? Don't Jedi let go of the physical when their end is at hand?
    TadoFett likes this.
  14. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Jan 11, 2014
    Usually yeah. Trying to cling onto the physical/defy death is usually portrayed as a BAD thing that Dark Siders/Sith are obsessed with. Jedi can become Force Ghosts in part because they accept that they will die eventually.
  15. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Oct 25, 1999
    This is actually a fantastic idea, as it plays into the theme of "moral ambiguity."

    One of GL's original ideas for the sequels involved the idea that to truly understand and "balance" the Force, one had to accept both the light and dark within themselves, and ergo, the light and dark halves of the power that the Jedi and Sith both wield. Given that the Jedi accept death and the transition to the spiritual (which in reality represents overcoming fear of the unknown) and the Sith cling to the physical precisely because of fear of the unknown, being able to straddle both worlds, if done correctly, could represent a way to demonstrate said balance. It reminds me of the one of the (now discarded) ideas for an "Anakin Force Ghost" for Ep III, in which one half of his face was scarred and the other whole, representing the conflict within himself.

    I'm hoping that JJ and the writers will go bold. It would be a novel way to wrap up the series, and continue to "shake things up" in a similar vein to Rian Johnson's maneuvers with TLJ.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  16. Star war

    Star war Jedi Knight star 3

    Jan 23, 2018
    Honestly i dont think Luke will appear to Rey at all.

    I think Luke will appear or haunt Kylo bcoz they still have issues to sort out.

    Luke wanted nothing to do with Rey. He wasnt interested in training her either.
    Their whole relationship was about Kylo.

    Luke wanted to save his nephew.
    He even came back to face him and apologize to him.

    While he didnt talk or ask about Rey at all.

    I dont think Luke will be Obi Wan 2.

    I think he will have much more role than that.

    Carrie is gone.
    So Luke will have to provide the family feelings to Kylo.

    Rey already knows or have everything she needs, Yoda said as much.

    While Luke said he will be with Kylo always.

    So i am 100% confident we will see Luke more than Obi Wan.

    Besides FG Luke also have to enlighten us on what happened b/w the skywalkers and Snoke.
    TadoFett likes this.
  17. TadoFett

    TadoFett Jedi Master star 2

    Aug 16, 2004
    I really don't see any overtly religious allegories in the sequel trilogy, and certainly nothing that caters specifically to Christianity. If anything, the whole idea of the Force and Jedi was more inspired by eastern philosophies, samurai, etc. There are themes that are consistent with multiple religions and philosophies in the movies, both new and old, but let's not pretend that Disney has suddenly turned the films into something overtly Christian, because that is simply not the case.
  18. Django Fett

    Django Fett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Nov 7, 2012
    Try the Prodigal Son.
    Marathonjedi77 likes this.
  19. Demsa Aztor

    Demsa Aztor Jedi Knight star 3

    May 29, 2016
    This sounds like a good take on a possible role for Luke and I admire your optimism. It would add a nice twist into story and an interesting one.
    There are a lot of avenues they could take with Luke even in a small part.

    I'm just wondering if JJ would actually do that considering how he was with Luke in The Force Awakens even though that last scene with Mark was epic.

    Good ideas nonetheless.

    TadoFett likes this.
  20. Star war

    Star war Jedi Knight star 3

    Jan 23, 2018
    Does anyone else think that Kylo has Luke's green lightsaber?

    In Rey's forceback in TFA with the KOR, Kylo was holding a lightsaber in his hand.
    It looked like Luke's to me.

    Maybe he took it with him after the temple destruction.
    TadoFett likes this.
  21. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Force Ghost star 8

    Nov 20, 2012
    He'll combine both to make a Christmas sabre that will sell like hotcakes for the holidays!
  22. run_luke_run

    run_luke_run Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Feb 18, 2004
    It's always so cute when people assume that any religious undertones are somehow tied to Christianity, specifically.
    So very cute.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
    TadoFett and Jedi Merkurian like this.
  23. Ton_G

    Ton_G Jedi Master star 4

    Aug 15, 2002
    It isn't Narnia, but there is something to be said about a two-thousand year shaping of the substructures of western thought and ethics, especially if the audience is integral to the work, such that even oriental tropes taste western.
  24. run_luke_run

    run_luke_run Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Feb 18, 2004
    Oh there is a lot to be said, for sure
    I fail to see any connection between Kylo's story (I'm assuming that is what you are referring to) and that particular parable.

    And yes, Ton_G, there is a lot to be said, but aside from the obvious overwhelming Eastern influences (not to mention Eastern film, such as The Hidden Fortress), my deeper point was that many people watched The Phantom Menace and thought..."It's just like Jesus!"...when they have no idea that the whole story of Jesus' virgin birth was, in turn, inspired by other such tales that came long before that one was concocted into a religious following. It's classic mythology, which is why it resonates with people on a level they may not even be cognizant of.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
  25. Django Fett

    Django Fett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Nov 7, 2012
    I was referring to Kylo's story arc in TFA up to the point where he was accepted back by his father (Han). Of course we now know Kylo's story veers off in a different direction, had he not killed Han and returned to his family it would be incredibly similar.

    I think it is natural that people who are Christian associate the allegories with their faith as it's what they know, I assume it's the same for those that are Jewish, Muslim, Buddist etc... Myth, legends, religion and even world history has inspired events in a GFFA and it's all thrown into the soup of the story.