ST Mark Hamill (Luke Skywalker) in the ST

I know we all wanted a more Heroic Luke in TLJ me included, but since these events were written the way they were. Is it fair to intrepid this older Luke as mentally unstable? It seems to me to justify his actions a little more in TLJ.

If they ever recast a younger Luke movie I'm sure we would see the Heroic Luke we imagined

 

You have yet to establish how Luke is unstable.

 

Sure, that is reasonable. Though, I am not sure it had to be all or nothing. TLJ, seemed to me to be about Luke, at the expense of the new characters. Whether heroic or not, not sure RJ needed to go so deep into this moral ambiguity for Luke. He has gone through that already and came out on top.
For some, they think those who wanted him to go crazy with the green light saber attacking AT AT's was the only way.
For me, having Luke maybe tragically save someone like Leia( anyone with emotional resonance)with Rey, to demonstrate what a truly awesome Jedi he was to her with one action. That would have been better and truly passed the torch.
My question has always been, why? Why go this route? The two light side users, basically can't stand each other and I find that a dissapointing choice.

 

If you can’t see it. Oh well what more can I say.

 

No, that's not how this works. You assert something, you provide evidence.

 

I really don't think Luke and Rey can't stand each other. Rey tells Snoke he underestimates Luke. Doesn't sound like resentment or hate to me. At the end of the movie Rey goes right up to Leia to tell her she felt Luke's passing with peace and purpose. I don't think there is any hate there.

 

Fairly sure the answer will translate to ''Just 'cause.'" Then he'll reference his source book again.

 

He did talk about this. He said that it was in the best interest of the story. He said Luke's heroic journey ended in ROTJ and that the ST is the heroic journey of Rey, Finn, and Poe, and that Luke's death was necessary to push those 3 newcomers forward. He said he hesitated and he and KK discussed it a ton, and that even though he was scared of doing it, he determined it was the best story move.

 

Exactly. He didn't do this lightly, or "just 'cause." Some would have done things differently. That's fine. He didn't. And he didn't do it to spite anyone either. He did it because he believes it was right for the story and many agree with him. The second aspect is that he believed it would open up story possibilities for Luke as a force ghost rather than just have him along with the group. I agree with him there as well. Obviously there are also good ways to tell a story where Luke survived and tags along with the group. But we haven't gone that way, and Luke dying as he does, and the potential for him moving forwards are resonant and exciting in that order. IMO.

 

Not sure Force ghosts ever needed "hot spots," because Obi-Wan appeared to Luke on Hoth and what the heck did Hoth have to do with the Force? Nothing.

I saw no problem with Yoda's lightning. Manipulating weather is fine. The bonk on the forehead was a little risky, but I'm fine with it since it was on Ahch-To, an extremely sacred place. That kind of makes sense.

I had this idea that, if JJ wanted to bring Luke back in the flesh, he could have Luke transition into a Force ghost, but meet Anakin's Force ghost and be told "No, it's not time...you have to go back. Help save my grandson." And then Luke would transition back into the flesh in IX. But, like you said, Force ghosts jumping back and forth between flesh and ghost would be taking it pretty far.

 

Yes. As much as I am still saddened that Luke is gone from the flesh and that we didn't get to see much of him being a "true Master," it does make sense story wise. Keeping him alive keeps the focus on him, when this trilogy is supposed to be about the newcomers. By making him transition to another plane, RJ gives JJ a wide open door to do anything he wants. And that is smart. Maybe not the most pleasing move for viewers necessarily, but it makes sense for writing the story beyond VIII.

 

If JJ wants to bring Luke back in the flesh - if - they can do that. He could fully become the master of both worlds. Worked for Gandalf the White. But equally, they may feel that goes against what the Jedi are all about and keep him as a luminous being - with all the potential for his powers informing the role he could play. Being a spirit also enables him to "haunt" Kylo and guide Rey fairly simply.

@MrElculver2424 - yeah, I was also gut punched to see him go. It was very powerful. I didn't want him to die, but that to me is not a reason not to do such a thing. It should be sad when he goes. We love the character. But I'm all for a great character death. I like the emotion of it all and it was a fitting way for him to go IMO.

 

I'm interested if his Force ghost will now communicate with his father's. It does strike me a little strange that there is no trace of Anakin's ghost yet in this trilogy, even though we saw him alongside Yoda and Obi-Wan as an equal at the end of ROTJ. Did his ghost lack something the others did and die out? Or is there a good reason why he hasn't appeared yet, but maybe will in IX? I can't wait to see.

 

There is a version of 9 where we get more into the spirit world and we see past warriors of the light helping the fight - even if only glimpsed briefly. So I wouldn't rule out any situation where Anakin, Kenobi, Yoda or even QGJ (and possibly even all past jedi) are glimpsed somehow. Obviously Luke, Anakin, Yoda and Kenobi are more likely to appear in a meaningful way - in that order). They have to be careful with force ghosts, but the options are there.

Luke seems the most obvious to feature simply because you can "undo" some of the complaints people have about his arc in the ST so far. He can still guide - and even be shown to be teaching - Rey. The grump is gone. He can be the wise, positive master he was on Crait. He can have a bond with Rey, he can play a part in stopping Kylo, he can hint at more mysteries of the Force, etc, all in a supporting role that still leaves Rey with the spotlight. The reason I put undo in inverted commas is that I think this was always part of the thinking rather than something they will consider because they realise they pissed some fans off.

But Anakin also seems like he could play a role. If they could make Hayden work in that way, great. With JJ directing and a good script, maybe it could work.

 

It's JJ, he is gonna bring them all back, im existed to even see force ghost kitser, panaka, boss nass, that one dude from the diner, george lucas' daughters, everyone man.

 

The use of Luke in this story as others have said was actually deliberate and it was considered and detailed; not thrown together. This has actually made me question the very nature of movie making and the place for Artistic ownership against customer satisfaction.

Rian, rightly or wrongly has been extremely defensive of his views of HIS story and seemingly was actively encouraged to make it his own (albeit with a strategic direction given to him from Disney.)
The issue with this is that for many (and I count myself as one) this massively jarred with their own expectations, it's one man's vision ultimately, this is probably a risk in today's society.

While you can't make everyone happy, I'm wondering if you should be considering fans a lot more in this process, through testing, engagement and collaborative working. Almost agile development for movie creation.

I'm a Digital and Marketing Director and this is my world now. I would never, ever release anything as a complete self serving view. I personally feel that Luke's characterisation would have benefitted from more of this approach. This selfish, "I know best" mentality feels so utterly antiquated to me, especially when Star Wars is a property many fans genuinely feel that they "own" a part of. It might be different with your own artistic product but Star Wars does not belong to KK, RJ or JJA, they're playing in all of our worlds, in GL's universe.

 

so this is how creativity dies, with thunderous internet hate.

 

Why would creativity die? It's more people contributing to the creative process. IT the death of selfish individualism perhaps.

 

First of all, the term selfish individualism is a redundancy.

Not that i am comparing Rian Johnson to Picasso, but imagine if Picasso would audience test his paintings? Or if Neruda would market research what people wanted to hear/read?

And producing big budget movies is ALREADY extremely limiting for the creative process, but you are arguing that they do even more audience testing and limit creativity. When what I think would be much more beneficial for society is for things to make us a bit more uncomfortable. I appreciate creativity and I think having more chefs in the kitchen hinders the creative process.

And I really hate to break it to you, but actually Star Wars doesn't belong to George Lucas, that stopped being his when he sold it. (And all the power in the world to GL), but this isn't his galaxy anymore. And technically, this world actually belongs to Disney and it is run by KK, thats the fact. And whatever they chose to do, is all within their rights. As its in your rights to no longer follow these movies, but its all in their rights to do whatever they please.

 

This probably gets into wishes for EP 9, and no longer complaints, but as much as I disliked EP 8, they could easily "fix" it.

Have the movie open with Kylo (who's mourning the death of Leia, privately), he's all alone. Killing his past hasn't made him any more powerful. But he's seeking how to project himself the same way Luke did. He wants more power.

Then back on Ahch-to, in that open cave 'council room', show a bunch of students sparring with each other. Against the back wall is a hooded figure who we assume is Rey. At that moment, Rey walks in through the other side, and the figure lowers his hood and it's Luke. We can't quite tell if he's ghost Luke or not. It blends realities. He says something like "their training is going well. Now it's time for your final lesson". And that lesson shows both of them travel to the netherworld of the Force. Luke tells her about how the force originates here, how she can come here for peace, to travel, for insight, to learn, or connect with others in the past. We see old friends, long gone. She opens her eyes, and Luke looks more like pure energy now. Rey is still herself. We see Rey struggle, and it's apparent that she's failed this test before. She mentions that even though the connection that Snoke created is gone, a tiny part still shadows over her. Luke tells her she can't bring that darkness here. She needs to lose it first. She looses concentration, and boom...they're back in the room. Luke is back to looking like ghost Luke.

The end fof the movie, shows Kylo Ren figuring out how to force project, or enter the Force netherworld, and the only reason why he can is because he has the light in him, even sill.. And the final fight happens there. Maybe Kylo is redeemed in someway, trying to protect the dark side from entering. Maybe we see Snoke wanting to corrupt this place. I dunno. Go wacky. Go all out.

 

First of all its not redundant. Selfish - for one's self. Individual - for the one (not necessarily yourself)

Secondly,..... Except that Picasso painted for his own selfish internal need to produce his mind's work. This isn't some art house flic written to express a selfish vision. It's a big budget movie designed to make money and entertain large volumes of people. You can argue how horrid that concept is, but it's fact.
Star Wars exists to make money and the best way to do that is to please as many fans as possible. This movie didn't do that, it polarised. In particular relevance to this thread in respect of Luke Skywalker it massively polarised the fan base, and if not fixed that will impact future products they release.

You clearly have no concept of what user and audience testing is if you believe it stifles creativity. It does THE EXACT OPPOSITE. It inspires creativity and informs it. You might not like too many chefs in the kitchen, but you do need the people eating the food to like your cuisine and if they tell you your food is often overcooked and you ignore it, they will stop eating from you. Your concept is lovely, but utterly undeliverable in any walk of life.

The universe of Star Wars will always belong to GL in the minds of the fans. Legally being owned by Disney is an irrelevance to the concept of fan relationships. Not once did I say Disney can't do anything with it. Once more you its the point. The point is fans are so invested in this franchise most feel that they have a right to influence it's direction. You can bet your backside Disney are paying attention to fan ire. If not they will fail. You might think that stifles creativity but that's the world Star Wars exists in.

There's absolutely no room for dictating what Star Fans want to see in such a militant fan base.

 

This is a terrible take.

The absolute last people LFL need to listen to are a bunch of irate fans who very often have little understanding of what it takes to tell a story like this. I dread to think of the stories we would get if the haters island was in charge of them for example. No thank you.

 

DP

 

Does anyone have a theory what happened to Luke's green lightsaber?

I havent seen much regarding it.

 

So by definition, The Last Jedi pleased as many fans as possible as it was the highest grossing film of the year and the 6th highest grossing film of all time?

So if food critics, folks paid to review food states that the restaurant is good, should i change what im serving?

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So i am less of a fan because I really don't have this in my mind? Can you then please explain to me what a real star wars fans is?

That, my friend, is hubris. I feel there is a Star Wars movies that touches upon this, but i can't figure out which one....also, i would say that those fans that feel they have a right to influence it's direction are being, whats that word? AH! Selfish.