ST Mark Hamill (Luke Skywalker) in the ST

Yoda also knew specifically who was going to rise. Luke apparently had some vague hope that MAYBE somebody somewhere might arise at some point. Until then, just let his nephew run around butchering people, because it's not like Luke stared down Vader and Sheev and won in the end or anything? But no, one thing didn't go his way and now it's all "the Jedi suck, I suck, and everything needs to end." Even his "proactive stance" isn't called attention to in the movie. In the movie it's played up like, he just gave up.

And his big "redemptive moment" is to save 20 people on one ship after the bad guys have already obliterated them as an effective fighting force. And then he dies, because he got tired after five minutes.

It doesn't line up with his OT arc at all. Luke doesn't just, give up after one setback. And as for the "sins of the father inspiring literature/art" that may be true. But it DOESN'T inspire SW, nor the arc of Luke Skywalker. His arc was FIXING his father's mistakes and doing things BETTER than his predecessors. Well until the ST decided that they wanted to do OT-lite, so then it was retconned to him screwing up in the same ways and dying before getting to fix his mistakes.

Oh how "inspiring."

 

He was a projection, what did he "endure" from the blaster fire? I`d say nothing since he wasn`t really there.

Leia`s survival in space strikes me as a far greater power. And since Luke died from his projection, it looks decidedly less impressive. On a scale of 1-10, I`d rate it a 6.

 

Ok. Something just came to me. Maybe I'm missing out on something here and please let me know if I am. Why didn't Kylo immediately suspect something about Luke after he came out of the blaster fire unscathed on Crait? He didn't put two and two together that, hey, is Luke using some sort of force projection?

I don't know.. just wondering.

 

@ Maroto77 It was early in the morning when I wrote that and I was in a bit of a rush. There was a thirty year gap between Return of the Jedi and TFA. I am well aware that TLJ picked up where TFA left off. That was a mistype on my part. However, again it just seems odd that he never gave up hope on his father who committed countless atrocities with no remorse but said he saw the darkness within Ben Solo and felt that he was no match for it. He faced two Dark Lords of the Sith alone. He faced Darth Vader while you could say he was still a Padawan Learner. Yet somehow after overcoming all of that he is afraid of a half trained teen age boy. He also knew all of his students and he just gave up and I am speaking for myself here I was just disappointed that its like he literally just gave up. He refused to turn his back on his family prior to this and suddenly for a "fleeting moment" he wanted to kill his nephew. Its odd.

Many will be quick to argue that there is no sadness shown in these films after a characters death. However while Luke only mourns the loss of his aunt and uncle for a minute that fueled his resolve coupled with finding out his friends were in trouble to go and challenge Vader only after he found out that Vader was his father did he soften his stance. In other words what appeared to be portrayed in the films is someone who would not turn and run away regardless of the situation he would have found a way.

The only thing I can say I was pleased about in TLJ was when Ben Solo decided he would not be Snokes slave. He was strong enough to rise up against him where Vader was not strong enough to strike down Palpatine. I have to admit that was pretty sweet to see him slice up Snoke when he said strike your true enemy. Where as Anakin was never able to become Emperor Ben Solo has now become Supreme Leader. It would be a shame if they decided to end Ben Solo's character arc in Episode nine. They must find a way to keep the Skywalker/Solo bloodline going.

 

No, he hasn't made new ones. He committed the same mistake that nearly cost him his life on Bespin. He approached a situation with weapon in hand when he shouldn't have. He trusted in visions when he knew that they have poor reliability. That's something he clearly should have learned from by now, especially considering that he supposedly learned from the Old Republic Jedi's example.

Allow me to rephrase. You could also have great stories that don't involve the protagonist of a previous story have all of his achievements thrown into the flames because you couldn't think of any other way to write a conflict. Also, Luke doesn't grapple with his father's past. It's less the sins of his father and more the mistakes he had made as a younger man being nonsensically repeated. Ones that nearly cost him his life. Ones that are ridiculous to repeat again. Especially when the character that succeeds him has an arc that is about as compelling as watching paint dry.

 

Luke saw it was his destiny to save his father (it was actually his destiny to be saved by his father who saved himself in the process though it cost him his own life). And his hope was lost for the moment when he almost killed his father in a rage at what he might do blinding Luke to his perceived destiny.

Luke sees it is not his destiny to save Ben. Specifically not in the manner in which his father turned back. And so he's preoccupied with the fear of failure. Until he finds a solution that saves the resistance without a physical confrontation with Kylo that can only be deadly for one of them. Luke denies Kylo the dubious prize of destroying him in anger.

 

Plus he leaves without telling Han & Leia anything, unless there's some note somewhere about it. It looks like he leaves wherever his Academy was and goes off to search for the temple - is there something somewhere that explains how Han and Leia know Ben is the one who did it, Ben is Kylo, that Luke went to search for the temple or how the hell Artoo ended up with Leia?

So Luke goes from risking his life to save them in Empire to saying "hey, whatever, enjoy your fight!" in TFA/TLJ?

 

The last thing Luke wanted was to endanger Han and Leia by making them the connection to him for Kylo hunting him down.

 

Luke was optimistic and when I hear that he just left I remember a scene in Return of the Jedi where Leia is telling Luke to run away far away if Vader could sense his presence and she wishes she could go with him but cant. He tells her he has to try. A man who loves his sister and his father decides he is going to try to kill his sisters teen age nephew just does not line up with who the character originally was. However as this story was written I get what they are saying and its true you cant save everyone they are who they are but the way it was written just seemed like a cheap way to build up Rey. Even Rian Johnson said he could not make Luke be optimistic because Rey is the optimistic one in this film. I would ask the question why is it necessary to tear down one character to build another?

 

He knows their kid has gone off the deep end and tried to kill him....so he tells Han and Leia nothing...to save them? I do not understand that in the least.

I've been asking that since Force Awakens when I saw Han turned into a comedy act who won't take a map to Luke to Leia. Then killed for nothing. It's a very good question - why do Luke, Han and Leia have to be destroyed? I haven't seen a decent answer.

 

The Bloodline novel helps with the timeline. Based on how little Leia knows of the FO 7 years prior to TFA and how Ben Solo hadn’t destroyed the temple yet we can now piece together pretty well that even though Luke was aware of Snoke he and most of the enemies of the FO had no idea who they were or how much power and weaponry they had amassed until probably about 5 years prior to TFA or less.

So, it’s conceivable that when Luke reached Ahch-To to clear his head and see the Jedi texts and the first temple and figure out what to do with both and whether the Jedi should confine or not... he likely had no idea that basically another Empire was going to rise.

He might have only anticipated a Dark Side Master and Apprentice relationship and the youngest in the Skywalker bloodline embracing the worst aspect of their family (Vader) and that being the aspect that undid all that Luke had worked on.

 

But it is only because he saw his father was destined to turn and it involved him not fighting and destroying Vader that Luke is optimistic. That's why Rey is so optimistic. Because she sees her destiny with Ben the way Luke did with Anakin. Obi-Wan thought Anakin could be turned but the actions that duty compelled him to take on Mustafar only made maters worse. From then on he blamed himself. But then Luke foresaw the consequences of "succeeding" where Obi-Wan "failed" on Mustafar in the image of himself within Vader's disembodied helmet. Thus, when he discovers who Vader is he realises that the father he had sensed he was destined to justify is the enemy he had been in training ostensibly in order to destroy.

He knows from experience with Vader that fighting Kylo to the death is not the answer. It would mean his death and Kylo consumed indefinitely.

If the force had given Luke the foresight of his full role in Ben's destiny then he would have found and implemented a solution sooner.

They know what happened from Luke, clearly. He just didn't tell them where he was going or his plans if he has any, in cases that places anyone in any more danger than they are in already while associated with him.

 

I'm not going to accept that a second of pure instinct is the equivalent of actually regressing.

Of course he is involved in the process of the light rising to face the darkness. The light would have chosen him to face the darkness, but by removing himself he consciously is causing someone else to be chosen. He is doing what Yoda told him to do in TESB - stay away for the greater cause.

 

That's not what Yoda said. Yoda wanted Luke to stay and finish his training so he could eventually defeat Vader and the Emperor and save the galaxy. That's very different from staying away from the fight to die.

 

Fundementally it really isn't. It's about sacrificing for a greater good. The greater good is different but it's the same lesson.

 

Yoda wasn't trying to get him to stay so he could do nothing. He was trying to get him to stay to finish his training. Doing nothing isn't for the greater good.

 

He isn't doing nothing by staying on the island. He is actively causing a new light to rise.

 

Even if that's what's happening there's nothing "active" about it. He's just staying there. That's the definition of passivity. I also don't see why he'd need to wait for a new light. Why stand by and wait when there's already a fully trained light side user ? Also, Rey was already born, how was he causing anything?

 

What made the brain trust come up with the hare brained idea that Rey rises up to meet Kylo - she's ten years younger than he is. So what, at TEN, the Force magically figures out that it needs to birth a champion? Or is she magically imbued with powers when Kylo turns six years before TFA?

That's Buffy the Vampire Slayer. It isn't Star Wars.

And Luke not telling Han and Leia what the hell is going on and just running isn't Luke. But based on all the evidence we have - that's what they're telling us.

 

It's the same process that happened to Anakin, only the Jedi didn't need to remove themselves because of the scale of the darkness.

It's implied by the film (all of his lessons) and RJ has stated it was his intention. You are welcome to handwave it away for a more negative interpretation though.

He caused the awakening in Rey.

And no it's not passivity. It's just activity in an unconventional way.

 

Yeah you'd think before leaving he'd at least talk to the people that his disappearance would have the greatest effect on. At the very least to let them know not to count on him even if they found him.

No he didn't... Rey even said herself that the power was always there. She was born with it. You can't just change the meaning of words. Passive is lack of direct action. Even if Luke had stayed on the island for the express reason of a new light side rising unless he went to the person and did something like train them or do a secret chant to cause them to awaken, it was passive.

 

... And now it's awake. Who caused it to awaken?

No. He's proactively doing something.buour definition of activity is far too narrow.

I think it's pretty obvious once you know, but I have said many times it should have been made more obvious.

Luke's statements combined with Snoke's make it pretty clear.

Sure if you want to make a negative assumption there is room for that. But I don't see the point beyond being critical the fact it wasn't made obvious enough.

 

Ok, even given that, he should have been happy to see her and wanted to train her so that she could help, if he was truly thing a new light side champion would come.He caused her to awaken, then showed her the door? Makes no sense. Was h just hoping she'd figure things out on her own?