ST Mark Hamill (Luke Skywalker) in the ST

I'd like that and you may be right. There's definitely lot of misdirection at play in the trailer.

 

I'\d lay money on it being Kylo. There is misdirection, no doubt, but not all of it is.

 

Agreed. And it just makes the most sense in-context for it to be Kylo.

 

Well, yes, I was able to figure that out. But what we don't know for sure at this point is the context in which Luke is asking that question. Does he genuinely not know why Rey is there? Is he asking her to see why SHE thinks she is there? Is it rhetorical? We don't know at this point. So my point was simply that if Yoda had a reason for asking that same question, and it had nothing to do with diminished force powers, the same could be true for Luke.

 

Kylo and Rey are already mirrored as opposites and matches in the story. It’s the logical conclusion

 

^Agreed. And quite frankly, it's really the only way to make this whole idea of "Luke being scared of Rey and her power" seem even remotely believable. Because otherwise, it's like "ok, but then why does that make you scared of HER? It's a very different situation."

 

I hope it's Snoke, but I don't think it is. I'm worried about a story where two 20 somethings display the most Force potential Luke has seen and that shakes him. I mean he's known Vader, Yoda, Obi-Wan, Palpatine, etc... I guess I just hope it isn't some Frieza vs Goku super powerup session.

 

I hate this idea that Luke is afraid of two young kids, when he wasn't afraid to face Vader and the emperor. It doesn't make much sense and just makes Luke look weak.

I don't think he's talking about snoke. Wasn't snoke the one who was worried about Luke returning? I know it was stated that it was because of the Jedi rising again, but it takes a while to train Jedi, and young, inexperienced apprentice Kylo was able to kill all of his fellow apprentices. Shouldn't be that tough for snoke to do, especially if he were super powerful. I'm sure he means Kylo.

 

I just don't get how that is any different from Anakin being the most powerful potential Jedi Yoda and Palpatine have ever seen, or Palpatine, Vader and Yoda realising how strong the Force is with Luke Skywalker. Each trilogy has seen its Jedi lead be described as very powerful. If the Awakening and some age old mysteries of the force are linked to this, I have no problem with Rey and Ren being hugely strong in terms of raw power.

 

+1

And I think that the assumption that Luke is scared of Rey and Kylo is just silly. Sorry, but we’ve got zero context for that snippet, and as some of the audio is spliced with other scenes, we don’t know if anything has been edited out of the dialogue.

We don’t know if Kylo and Rey have more Force potential than Luke. I don’t see why Anakin, Luke, Leia, and Kylo wouldn’t have equal potential, at least, and Rey and Kylo appear to be set up as equals. Moreover, Luke has 30+ years of experiance, while Rey is a complete novice.

No, if Luke is scared, he’s most likely either scared for Rey or scared of the implications of her level of power.

Generally, I’d be wary of context created in trailers by splicing together dofferent scenes and audio. Especially if such implies something absurd.

 

I think we should see exactly whats going on before we make assumptions about Luke.

 

I think he is very specifically alarmed about what this raw strength might mean. And I've zero doubt that the film will present as full case as to why Luke's alarm might be understandable - even if it's something we're hoping (like Rey) he will overcome.

 

How does it make sense for it to be Kylo, Luke witnessed Yoda lifting his X-wing out of the swamp which he found to be unbelievable, He suffered 1st hand at the power of the emperor and was powerless to stop him. But you think it would make sense from him to be talking about Kylo who was defeated by Rey in both a light-saber duel and mind probe showdown? In TFA Kylo killed no one.
sorry I forget Kylo did kill his father in TFA.

 

Because the main theme of the trailer is the connection between Rey and Kylo, and RJ has said on multiple occasions that their is some kind of connection between the two. We dont know why it scares him as we dont know rbe context.

 

I hope Kylo shines in this film to make that statement seem believable. TFA's Kylo shouldn't scare Luke at all.

 

Such a corny line.

"I"ve seen this medium well strength only once before. And I sent it back to that Ugnaught chef!"

 

That is what I'm talking about. I don't think he's afraid Rey or Kylo have the power to kill him. Based on the trailer, he's unnerved by their display of force potential. So if Palpatine thought Vader was off the charts and Luke was in the presence of some of the most powerful force users in recent times, having two young force users show even more power feels like it's moving the goal posts. When that starts happening it can go down a rabbit hole quickly. The next trilogy could feature characters that eclipse Rey's power, the trilogy after eclipsing theirs.
I don't know what Rian is writing, but we all know he has talent. I just hope this is less about max-power gains and more about what is happening to the characters and because of that, what is happening within them.

 

They could keep the focus on character, despite all the raw power talk. But at a certain point, for the audience to continue to believe the story being told, they have to show evidence of this power. And that's when we enter danger zone and the possibility of jumping the shark.

In general though, making Rey and Ben more powerful than Palpatine, Vader, and Luke can be fairly judged as cliche genre laziness. Can Rian overcome this move? We'll see.

One thing we should keep in mind is that great directors are not necessarily great writers. But great directors don't always have to be great writers because their imagery and action often make up for the dumb writing. They have the power of the image on their side.

But I recall a rumor from before TFA was released, even before we knew the title, I believe, which was that the ST had to do with a reboot in the Force -- something happens that makes it and Force users more powerful. The title The Force Awakens seems to confirm this.

If there's any truth to that story, then maybe Rian's not totally responsible for this plot focus on raw power.

Whoever is to blame, I'm surprised this is the direction LFL seems to be taking us. They have to realize this kind of thing may lead to movies full of cartoonish CG action, like the horrible stuff we see in the Justice League trailer.

I'd rather LFL be building the universe in more interesting ways. New types of threats instead of rebooted Imperials and super duper Force strength.

 

I agree with a good deal of that post, but the above line is what I'd rather see too.

 

Dra---

I don't think LFL is taking the saga in a Force Unleashed direction.

As for fears of Star Wars becoming idiots in spandex flying around destroying buildings and cracking one-liners, I just don't see Kathleen going there. Marvel already has that covered for Disney. Why replicate it? The current Star Wars formula is wildly successful, and not worth breaking.

I'm guessing that Rey and Kylo are unusually powerful (and will remain unusual among future force users), but that even those powers will be contained to things like breaking rock faces, exploding huts, extraordinary mind control, etc. Kylo, for example, is still flying around in a TIE shooting things. He's not force-shattering capital ships and flying through space in tights.

 

But when did Luke ever see their raw strength (Vader and Palpatine?). I think they should be a new development force wise. It should be a new and alarming threat, and "might go dark" doesn't cut it any more as that's been the threat every time. I think so long as it's linked to the force in an interesting way, and the film shows us why this is such a big deal and different from those characters, and it doesn't stray comepleley into the force unleashed territory (i.e. it remains primarily character driven rather than WOW THIS OFF THE CHARTS, then I'm all for it).

Part of the problem, for me, is that for all the talk of Anakin being incredibly powerful, he never once does anything that we don't see the other Jedi do. It's all just another day at work for all the Jedi. I want to see something new. I want to see why Luke is so shaken. If that means a new development in the lore and the force, good. I'm happy to push forward so long as it feels organic once we know the whole story.

I agree with you re Rian. He's not an idiot. He's not going to be interested in FORCE POWER LEVELS on a spectacle level, but on a character level. And if Luke Skywalker is shaken, excellent. I don't want him having all the answers. If he is shaken, I'm worried. To me, the trailer raises the stakes because I now know that **** is about to get real, in a way we haven't seen exactly before. That to me, is a very exciting thing.

I think the Rainmaker in Looper is something worth looking at for how RJ might come at this. It won't be exactly the same, but there is a power there that affects all the characters in that film. It's not about superheroes. It's about the danger inherent in that power - which is something that has always existed in SW.

People keep saying - well, why did Luke just leave? Why hasn't he stopped Kylo? What is he doing on the Island? I think the answer to all three lies in the same answer - and we won't know for sure till we see the film, but something more than the Jedi purge went down. Rian has said - we know Luke is not a coward. Something Luke did not see coming and possibly did not understand went down and it's shaken him. I think it's very possible that the Awakening and the "age old mysteries of the force" are tied to all this.

 

Which is why the Anthology films are so important.

Perhaps the problem is that SW gets the most exposure through the movies. In order to really expand the public’s perceptions of the franchise, LFL must create novel films, and not just stick the “less standard” stories in comics and books.

But that involves gambling a lot of $$$....

 

ESB and RotJ was filled with references to sensing all sorts of things. On top of that Luke got a personal display of Palpatine's power on DS2. As he trained with Yoda (for however long that was) he was also witness to his powers. One of the things I thought was interesting in an interview with GL was that Obi-Wan was an average Jedi power wise. This was Jedi of average ability who defeated Anakin on Mustafar. In the OT we were only told the Force is strong with this one, and that seemed enough. We didn't have to hear Yoda, Obi-Wan or Vader commenting on his raw power. My point is that sometimes less is more. It can be easy to remove all mysticism about the Force. I just hope they don't use it all up.

 

That's what I mean though - it's mostly irrelevant given what we're shown. Anakin does nothing the other Jedi don't. Nothing. Yet we were given a set of data to tell us how powerful he was and that he'd be stronger than any other Jedi. We're told this constantly. We're told that the force is strong with Luke, several times. The reason is raw power is not commented on is because he is not Kylo Ren and Rey. Their raw power is commented on because there is something special about them. Doesn't mean there is no mysticism left - and I suspect it will create more mysticism once we see what the new lore going on is - or that those characters are no longer interesting. But IMO, Luke should be shaken. It's the kind of scene we should have had in the Prequels where we realise just how powerful Anakin is, and how dangerous he could be, or how much good he could do. So long as the physics (in terms of choreography) remain grounded enough, I'm down with it.

 

Here's a thought. When Luke says "I've seen this raw strength only once before. It didn't scare me enough then. It does now", it would seem that most people think that Luke is referring to a person.

What if he is in fact referring simply to a place? A place where the Force is extremely strong. Another Jedi temple?

The cave on Dagobah?