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Official Info Mark Hamill (Luke Skywalker) in Episode VIII (see warning on page 651 before posting)

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by Darth_Voider, Dec 17, 2015.

  1. nightangel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2014
    star 6
    yep, like me, but now we will probably never see it and it stays a dream forever. :(
    -LordSkywalker-, arjank and T-R- like this.
  2. themoth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2015
    star 4
    I'm hoping Luke uses his stick to strike down a bunch of evil doers and uses the Force. I also want the green sabre at some point, even if it's saved until IX. As long as it happens. If they love the fans, they'll do it.
  3. Master_Lok Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 5
    As have I,

    If J.J. sidelines Luke and Finn, I will agree with you both, but until we see proof of this, I am going to politely ignore Abrams' return and deal with one movie at a time. VIII could be great for us long time Luke fans (and SW fans.) We're almost 3 months away from that. :)
    Last edited by Master_Lok, Sep 13, 2017
  4. jaqen Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2004
    star 5

    You're conflating a number of different happenings and merging them together here.

    There's no proof that Luke's biggest role was happening in IX. His biggest role was set for TLJ, and Leia's biggest role was set for IX.

    CT said he wanted to explore Luke and Leia. He did not say he wanted to give both their "biggest roles" in his film.

    There's no proof that KK's script disagreements had anything at all to do with CT supposedly wanting to increase the size of Luke and Leia's parts.

    The decision to put Luke on the sidelines happened before JJ came on board. It was Michael Arndt. JJ, who is a self professed Luke fan, actually fought Michael on the idea of Luke only showing up for a cameo.

    Arndt:I’ll just say very quickly that very early on I tried writing versions of the movie where the girl is at home, her home gets destroyed, she goes on the road, she meets Luke, and then she goes and she kicks the bad guy’s ass. It just never worked. I struggled with this. This was back in 2012. It just felt like every time Luke came in and entered the movie, he just took it over. Suddenly, you didn’t care about your main character anymore because like, “Oh @#$%, Luke Skywalker’s here. I want to see what he’s going to do.” This was like a huge thing. I feel so bad for J.J. because it was like, “The good news is you get to make a Star Wars movie, but the bad news is…” We had long conversations about this, and J.J. so much wanted to have Luke Skywalker in his movie. But to finally say, again, any time Luke showed up, it suddenly became his movie. So you had to push it to the very end.

    It's only "obvious how this is going to go" after you twisted a bunch of disparate developments together in the most negative, anti-Luke way possible just to make your point and back your ongoing "everybody hates Luke" agenda.


    That fantasy was never going to happen under George Lucas. Did you not note the following:

    A. George told Mark way back in the 80s that Luke would return for a cameo in the ST to pass the baton.
    B. George said he wrote his treatments in such a way that any of the Big 3 could be written out if they didn't want to return.

    There were no big plans in George's ST that was going to showcase some Luke Skywalker meets Superman, more powerfaul than Yoda and Palpatine combines.

    And if you truly believe that George wanted to make a canon Force Unleashed: Luke Skywalker addition, why do I never see all your vitriol directed in George's way? Afterall George is the creator and former owner of the saga, he absolutely could've done the ST himself if he cared that much about getting his vision on the screen.
    Last edited by jaqen, Sep 13, 2017
  5. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 5
    I think Finn is safe. He's one of JJ's characters, he was front and center of TFA marketing, he had a starring role in TFA, he's a new character, and John was chosen by JJ for the role.

    EDIT in response to jaqen:

    Look, MA was let go and JJ and LK started from scratch. Their words. Thy could have done anything they wanted. They chose not to use Luke. It wasn't set in stone because MA couldn't figure it out. I bet Lucas would have. So no, not conflating anything. JJ admitted it in interviews.

    CT did say:

    http://www.etonline.com/news/179765_colin_trevorrow_promises_satisfying_answer_to_star_wars_theories

    Though he says he has yet to speak with original Star Wars stars Hamill and Carrie Fisher, Trevorrow wants their presence to be even greater in his film, revealing he can't wait "to find new places that we can take those characters."
    "They are icons, but they're also people that have suffered tremendous loss and challenge over the course of all these films," he told us.
    "[Episode IX] is something that needs to honor a story that's been told over a period of 40 years," he reiterated. "I don't want to ignore any of it, and I respect all of it. It's something I think the fan base is going to embrace."
    Last edited by T-R-, Sep 13, 2017
  6. Master_Lok Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 5
    May J.J. truly capitalize on why he hired John in the first place. I would like to enjoy Finn as much as I do Luke, so I hope J.J. picks up on Rian's inclusion of the actors and their thoughts about playing these characters rather than a repeat of Luke and Finn in TFA.
    Last edited by Master_Lok, Sep 13, 2017
    jaqen and nightangel like this.
  7. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 5
    George also gave many interviews since 1980 talking about the ST that does in fact show he had plans for it. Look them up. They've been discussed repeatedly on these boards.

    Why should I have vitriol at George? Disappointment, yes, but not vitriol. George chose a trusted friend to execute his vision. Tried to make it as fool proof as possible. It's not his fault that she betrayed that trust and threw out his vision in favor of her own.
    Last edited by T-R-, Sep 13, 2017
  8. Satipo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2014
    star 7
    Yeah, It's ludicrous to leap to the assumption that CT was axed because he wanted too much Luke and now JJ has been brought back to finish the character assassination he began in TFA. There is nothing to suggest George would have had Luke in some huge role in the ST, and probably more to suggest he was just passing the torch to the next generation.
  9. JoJoPenelli Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2000
    star 5
    George has said many, many interesting things about his plans/ideas for an ST, quite a few of which (although of course not all!) sound eerily similar to what we're apparently getting.

    Personally, I'm less interested in the # of minutes of screentime Luke gets or the amount of butt he kicks than I am in his intended arc. I have no doubt LFL will treat the character with respect, and I believe they understand that Luke at this stage may be powerful and a teacher. But that was never the heart of Luke's arc.

    How much of OT Luke was really about becoming a Jedi? Or kicking butt? What really drove him? What has driven him since?

    I'm sure Luke will be powerful - TFA certainly suggested he is. But the TFA novelization suggested that what makes the Skywalkers special goes beyond mere midichlorian count, and that makes me wonder about what Luke has discovered not just about the Jedi but his and his family's place in the galaxy. And what drives him now.

    tl;dr

    Personally Luke's fighting prowess is far from what I consider the most interesting thing about Luke. And I don't think the Powers that Be ever saw that - or even retarting the Jedi Order - as the core of his character.
    Dra---, jaqen, TK327 and 2 others like this.
  10. CEB Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2014
    star 5
    The idea that Luke was sidelined because JJ had some bizarre attachment to a character he'd created that he didn't want the limelight stolen from is a narratively illiterate wilful ignoring of what people have actually said.

    Firstly, it's not about "rey" specifically, nor about JJ specifically. What it's about is that the sequel trilogy was always going to focus on a new generation - the previous two had featured distinct generations and eras - and that narratively Luke being a Jedi doing his Jedi thing made it difficult to have real stakes to the story, and with any new protagonist, Luke being there would be likely to take over. I mean, why would Luke simply hand over a baton when he's better placed to fight evil anyway?

    I mean, as it is, with Luke in exile, people are still, justifiably, not completely sold on the idea that there are post Palpatine darksiders who are a real threat to the Galaxy. With Luke in the picture, that becomes an even harder sell.
    There were two ways, realistically, to set up the narrative for the sequels and not simply have Luke as an invincible superhero. The first would have been to establish how powerful the villains are by having them kill Luke, leaving the galaxy seemingly without hope.
    The second way is to make a situation where the baddies are TERRIFIED of Luke, but that he is absent for reasons unknown/hinted at. This allows for believable stakes, for the establishing of a new hero, and for the question about Luke to not be how powerful he is, but where his head is at. And as well as being a danger to the baddies, Luke now looks set to be the prism through which the audience examines everything we thought we knew about Star Wars.

    Anyone who thinks Luke has simply been sidelined either hasn't been paying attention or has made up their mind that they hate the story before they've seen it
    Last edited by CEB, Sep 13, 2017
  11. JoJoPenelli Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2000
    star 5
    I also think we need to remember that Luke wasn't just stuck on Achoo at the last minute,

    RJ came in early in the process, remember. Luke being on Achoo *was fully integrated into the story they're telling.*

    (Recall, too, that while the backstory was sketched out early on, RJ added to it.)

    So Luke's exile is far from random or gratuitous.
    jaqen and Martoto77 like this.
  12. DarkMark Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2002
    star 3
    I seem to remember that Luke being sidelined was there very early on, when Michael Arndt was writing the script. It wasn't something Abrams demanded because he was "attached" to his characters. It was built into the story from early days, and he thought it worked well enough to continue with it.

    It'll be interesting to see if any of Trevorrow's story points remain a part of IX in the same way.
    Last edited by DarkMark, Sep 13, 2017
    jaqen likes this.
  13. Jedi Master Scorpio Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2015
    star 4
    Sounds like it is a complete page 1 re-write, so I am doubtful that any of CT's ideas will be included. But I could be wrong though.
    DarthBane93 and Darth Smurf like this.
  14. Darth Smurf Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2015
    star 4
    IMO Colin did not got the rewrites right by simply starting from the beginning again. I guess he tried to change his existing story incl. some Leia stuff.
    After he got the new co-writer, maybe the "helper of the day" was the one who told KK that there is no chance to change the existing story.
    When KK told CT that he needs to start again from the beginning (or maybe she did more than once already but CT ignored it), CT and KK could not get along with each other anymore
  15. jaqen Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2004
    star 5
    How much do you imagine Luke figured into a George Lucas penned Episode 7 that he could've been written out of if Mark said no? That's not how prominent roles work.



    Yes, I've quoted that article several times myself. Did you note the date of that quote? It was shortly after TFA was released, and before the script for VIII was even finished.

    CT was lkely talking about expanding the presence of Luke and Leia "even greater" in comparison to TFA. But since that development we now know, with updated info, Luke got his large part in TLJ, where Leia also was expanded, and her largest part was suppose to be in IX.

    Look, you, and a few others, are determined to push this anti-Luke agenda. You think everyone is against him, even when they state things contrary to your view. And then you take these quotes and misrepresent them to fit that agenda.

    Do you even WANT anything positive to come out of this trilogy for Luke at this point?


    I've been reading those quotes for over 15 years. What does this have to do with my post? I never said Lucas didn't have plans for the ST.
    Last edited by jaqen, Sep 13, 2017
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  16. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 5
    This isn't true. The ST wasn't always going to be about the next generation in the same way the PT and the OT was. Again, Lucas from 1980-1997 or so references Luke and the gang and not the next generation. It was them passing on what they have learned, not a new generation coming in and learning from them. There is a difference in focus, and from 1980-1997 the focus was on the OT3 in comments made about the ST. Which for the record would have been new and original by changing the perspective and giving us the end of the story. Instead we got the same story we've seen twice before.

    For one thing, that was said very early in the development of the project. Once Mark and the gang committed, Lucas could tell whatever story he wanted.

    As for "that not how prominent roles work," I'll refer you to Episode IX. Leia was to have a prominent role according to KK. Not any more. I guess things can change with prominent roles based on availability.

    I did note the date of that quote, apparently you didn't. That quote was from 1/12/16. The script for TLJ was completed by 11/9/15 - a full TWO months before the quote. CT knew exactly what TFA and TLJ had in store for Luke and Leia when he made that quote.

    https://www.theverge.com/2015/11/9/9695650/star-wars-8-script-finished-jj-abrams

    I think you and others try to gloss over and misrepresent quotes.

    Of course I do, it's what worries me and others. The point is that so far nothing positive has been done as of TFA and rumors aren't that good regarding TLJ so far. Adding JJ back into the mix isn't helping. CT was something to at least hope for.


    It has to do with your implication that Lucas didn't have a big role in mind for Luke when you posted:

    That fantasy was never going to happen under George Lucas. Did you not note the following:

    A. George told Mark way back in the 80s that Luke would return for a cameo in the ST to pass the baton.
    B. George said he wrote his treatments in such a way that any of the Big 3 could be written out if they didn't want to return.


    Look, I get it. A lot of you are happy with things, and most likely will be happy with whatever you get with the Star Wars name on it. Cool. But the fact of the matter is that KK et. al. threw out the real ST in favor of their own. Luke was sidelined by JJ/LK/KK. Sure MA had troubles, but he was fired and JJ/LK started from scratch and still chose to sideline Luke on their own. That had nothing to do with MA's difficulties. It was solely their choice. Also, they chose to sideline Luke to not take the shine away from Rey. They've not only said it, but the fact that JJ didn't even have a reason for Luke in exile and RJ had to "crack that nut" is further proof that the only thing they wanted was Luke out of the way for TFA.

    So yeah, JJ coming back is worrisome. Not only did he sideline Luke with no reason in mind other than to protect Rey's shine, but he also reset the universe to ANH level, killed Luke's students, made Luke's academy a failure, made Han a failure, made the Solo kid evil, split Han and Leia up, among other things. That doesn't bode well for how he will conclude the ST. I bet it ends with Luke dead and Rey as the last Jedi. Anybody want to bet differently?
    -LordSkywalker- and ChildOfWinds like this.
  17. jaqen Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2004
    star 5
    Carrie Fisher died. And you tried to use that tragic fact to support this fantasy that George created a Luke heavy Episode 7 that JJ evilly conspired to do away with.

    I'm done.
  18. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 5
    No, I used that tragic fact to point out the fallacy in your assertion that prominent roles can't be written out of a movie script in early development.

    After Mark, Carrie, and Harrison agreed to come back, the BTS signs point to a larger role for Luke in Lucas' treatments.

    [IMG]
    Last edited by T-R-, Sep 13, 2017
  19. Ben-Solo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2017
    star 3
    I just don't get this approach when we are still in ACT I of a III ACT story; I believe the storygroup is doing what they feel is best for the story they are telling us. They are not intentionally sidelining any character. To all of us here Luke Skywalker is important, very much so as is (every other character) without him/them these stories cannot be told. With the opening to the Force Awakens we wouldn't have known that Luke had vanished and the Resistance wanted to find him (which they did); in ACT II it is now his turn to lead the rise of a new Jedi (and it may possibly be his daughter) and yet the fan base is worried about JJ Abrams and Kathleen Kennedy. They know how important Luke Skywalker is to Star Wars and they will properly address his homecoming. Let's allow things to play out. You'll get you Jedi Master, student teaching, hero and his return to the screen will bring thuderous applause in the theatre. Let's give them a chance, Mark is..
    Last edited by Ben-Solo, Sep 13, 2017
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  20. nightangel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2014
    star 6
    I give them a chance, but I must admit it was easier for me during OT times and starting there directly with ROTJ. How would I have survived the ESB ending and all the speculation following it? And all my fear for Luke. [face_sigh]
  21. Darth Chiznuk Superninja of New Films

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 6
    We are not going to rehash these old tired arguments again. If you didn't get it out of your system during the 20 months since TFA was released then too bad. This forum is for discussion of TLJ and IX not TFA. Move on.
    Last edited by Darth Chiznuk, Sep 13, 2017
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  22. nightangel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2014
    star 6
    my latest comment was not meant as a general movie complaining and only that it just feels very different from OT times and in which I first saw ROTJ. So it was more a complaining about myself and not used to being patient. So I guess you got my last post wrong. [face_dunno]
    Last edited by nightangel, Sep 13, 2017
  23. Darth Chiznuk Superninja of New Films

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 6
    The warning was for everyone in the thread not you personally.
    nightangel likes this.
  24. Master_Lok Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 5
    Did you do that manip? It's fantastic.
    nightangel likes this.
  25. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 5
    Nope. It is actual Lucasfilm concept art for TFA

    certain parts are relevant to the discussion of IX since JJ is writing and directing IX
    Last edited by T-R-, Sep 13, 2017