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  2. Episode 8

Official Info Mark Hamill (Luke Skywalker) in Episode VIII

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi & IX - Spoilers Allowed' started by Darth_Voider, Dec 17, 2015.

  1. DarkGingerJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2012
    star 4
    Guesses:

    Luke is training Ben and they are on their quest to find cool Jedi lore and ancient knowledge. Along the way, perhaps this Snoke business blows up at some point. Luke has become so intent on finding new knowledge and finish Ben's training, that he's not interested in dealing with Snoke at the moment. He feels it's more important to compete the training. Ben wants to help his family/friends and sets out to deal with it against Luke's instructions. Much like how Luke gave up his own training to help his friends, it was an obvious trap. Ben is very unprepared, and meets Snoke and instead of denying his offer, he's seduced by it. "Vader should have ruled the galaxy, take his place. They all know its your destiny". Ben falls to the dark side and is named Kylo Ren.

    Maybe to help out his fall, there are other factors involved:
    a: this is where he learns the Skywalker family secret and is enraged that he wasn't told about it.

    b-1 the Solo tragedy that rips mom and dad a part comes in play. Perhaps they had another kid -one we haven't been told about just yet - and they died. Ben/Kylo, who never really bonded with mom and dad but did with his sibling, fells the loss deeply.

    b-2 Luke's wife, or some other new jedi, church of the force member - senses the coming darkness and academy slaughter, and sends Rey away to be protected. Somehow...wipes her memories.

    c: Kylo returns to destroy to academy.

    d: Just as the darkness called out to Kylo, Luke hears something calling to him. Perhaps loosing Kylo (as well as his other nephew/niece/daughter/etc) causes him to journey to Arch-to to learn what's going on there and why it's calling to him.
    Last edited by DarkGingerJedi, Jan 10, 2017
  2. DarthKeithSkywalker Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 2015
    star 1
    I believe if Rey was in Jakku at a very young age, she couldn't possibly be sent away during the six year gap between "Bloodline" and TFA. She was sent away much earlier. But why? Is she really Luke's child or is she the presumed dead sibling of Kylo that somehow ended up in Jakku and therefore her 'death' is the Solo family tragedy that teared the family apart?

    Anyways, I want Luke to survive in the sequel trilogy. He would be the key to defeating Snoke and the FO in this trilogy. He's Luke Skywalker, hero of the original trilogy, damn it! Don't turn him into Ben Kenobi.
  3. Avalanche19 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2016
    star 1
    I think the villains will have the upper hand in 8. I want to see a very powerful Luke, can't see that being a bad thing.
    nightangel likes this.
  4. nightangel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2014
    star 6
    I pray you are right. [face_praying] :D

    the same for me. :D
    Last edited by nightangel, Jan 11, 2017
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  5. sabo1990 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 2015
    So let me get this straight, its ok for luke to kill billons of people on the death star and its ok for luke to murder the knight of ren without hesitation ,yet luke is going to force this stupid philosophy that somehow the precious snowflake skywalker ben solo is of limits and needs to be saved .
    Last edited by sabo1990, Jan 11, 2017
  6. Darth Smurf Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2015
    star 4
    1. Some doubts that on the "military target" called Death Star were billions of soldiers. Maybe some thousand. Anyway a military target
    2. Murder the Knight of Ren. Does he?, If so, so what - They attack, they lose. If they do not attack they do not get killed - we will see
    Who says yet he wants him to be saved?
    nightangel and Dra--- like this.
  7. nightangel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2014
    star 6
    and if he wants him to be saved, it may be for the sake of his sister. Don't underestimate the value of family. ;)
    Last edited by nightangel, Jan 11, 2017
  8. arjank Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2015
    star 4

    That's what I was thinking too.
    Btw. according to last rumors Leia was going to confront Ben, this is something I've always said. If Ben is going to be redeemed then Leia will (IMO) play a large role.
    Avalanche19 and nightangel like this.
  9. Darth Nikean Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2016
    star 2
    But now the actresses has passed away . Will they replace her
  10. Kyberfreak Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2017
    star 2
    It depends on what she does in Episode 8. If they can 'write her out' of the story for EP9, I think they will do that instead of replacing her with CGI or a new actor. If they can't avoid a big role in EP9, I'd actually prefer a new actor over the weird look of CG'ed humans.
  11. SaintKenobi1322 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2013
    star 4

    Also from Bloodlines, Luke and Ben are cut off from communication with the rest of the galaxy when word of Leia's heritage goes public. I am convinced that this was the final straw in Ben's seduction to the Dark Side. Snoke was already in contact with Ben without his family knowing. We know the Dark Side can hide itself from the PT. We also know that Ben was already showing some dangerous tendencies.

    Somehow, Snoke is able to get word to Ben that his grandfather was actually Darth Vader and convinces him his family has lied to him his entire life about who he really is. I believe at this point, Ben turns against the Jedi, murders his classmates while Luke is away and joins Snoke as Kylo Ren.

    It is the opposite of Luke's hero's journey. Luke learns the truth about Vader and is repulsed by it. Ben embraces it.
    DarthKeithSkywalker likes this.
  12. DarkGingerJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2012
    star 4
    Yup, definitely thinking they're aiming for a mirror of Luke, what he went through and the decisions he made. It's not an exact mirroring event for event, but how about this?

    Luke was sent to be raised by his uncle, at the request of Ben Kenobi, who mentors him.
    Ben was sent to be mentored by his uncle Luke, at the request of his parents who raised him.

    Luke doesn't complete his training and rushes off to save his friends from Vader.
    Ben doesn't complete his training and rushes off to save his friends from Snoke.

    Luke is lured into a trap and learns the truth that Vader is his father.
    Ben is lured into a trap and learns the truth that Vader was his grandfather.

    Luke won't accept the truth at first.
    Ben readily accepts the truth at first.

    Luke defies the offer and escapes the Empire.
    Ben accepts the offer and joins the FO.

    Luke returns to his former mentor who explains the truth, and doesn't feel betrayed by his mentor's POV lie. Can feel the good in Vader.
    Ben returns to his former mentor who explains the truth, and feels betrayed his his mentor's POV lie. Can feel the bad in Vader.

    Luke returns to the Rebels, saves his friends, and later confronts his father.
    Ben returns the First Order, destroys his friends at the academy, and later confronts his father.

    Luke is tempted by the dark side but doesn't kill his own father. Remains on the light side.
    Ben is tempted by the light side and kills his own father Remains on the dark side.

    Post ROTJ - Luke completes his training alone, by traveling and learning about the force.
    EP 8- Kylo completes his training by Snoke
    SaintKenobi1322 likes this.
  13. Ender_and_Bean Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 3
    Rian Johnson mentioned reading Carl Jung, among others, in anticipation of VIII and IX. Following his recent comments regarding what's up with Luke and his desire to make that believable given Luke's hardships and power, I found this passage from one of Jung's essays that seemed potentially like an inspiration for the idea of Ach-Too and the first Jedi temple. Jung wrote this following increased self-awareness of the modern man basically realizing how messed up society really is and will be for a very long time. It's something he noted in his subjects following World War I.

    I can imagine Rian being fascinated by this and Luke as the total embodiement of this increased self awareness of the world. Note the section bolded. Here's the quote:


    And...

    What's my interpretation?

    Luke will be very reluctant to train Rey initially. I wouldn't be surprised if Yoda and Ben are also struggling to motivate him in ways that used to work. He's older, wiser, more powerful and frustrated with this cycle of violence that seems to follow him. He's wondering how other masters have dealt with this responsibility. Where can he go next? What is he missing? The laziest among us will call VIII Luke's mid-life crisis phase and that's okay but I think Rian wants to explore this psychological terrain more thoroughly even than Kasdan did and he obviously was the genius responsible for working in Luke's fear of becoming his own father in TESB, which was obviously a big psychological theme there. Right down to seeing his own face in Vader's mask. In Raiders Indiana Jones' hat was a comfort blanket for a character with serious phobias. Nothing like that had been done in ANH so tackling those concepts in a family friendly adventure took guts. I think Rian will explore this for a while with Luke in VIII. He may even work in some mild PTSD and minor flirtations with Sith knowledge that he's fighting off. Not because he's bad. Only because he's curious and wondering "What next?"

    It will be Rey that gives Luke new purpose and the internal questions he's trying to answer with external knowledge and solitude will be relaxed with some well-deserved internal healing and love.
    Last edited by Ender_and_Bean, Jan 11, 2017
    Revanfan1 likes this.
  14. DarkGingerJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2012
    star 4
    Good stuff.

    I would bet that added to Luke's crisis, is that not only is he alone in self-imposed solitude, is that fact that he is the ONLY one left anywhere he goes. The Last Jedi. I really think his choice to stop his training and rush to save his friends in Empire, have yielded long-term unknown consequences, that he only realizes in hindsight. At the time, the only negative reaction was realizing the horrible truth of his own father. Although he beat the temptation to join Vader, he thought he escaped any real consequences. Sure, he might be well learned now, or maybe not, we don't know. We all thought he made the right choice in the matter, but what if all along, hidden under the choice he made, was the wrong decision; that he never completed his training.

    When he was leaving Degobah, Yoda and Ben both told him so:

    Yoda: If you end your training now - if you choose the quick and easy path as Vader did - you will become an agent of evil.
    Obi-Wan: Patience.
    Luke: And sacrifice Han and Leia?
    Yoda: If you honor what they fight for? Yes.

    ...

    Yoda: [closes his eyes for a moment] Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future.
    Luke: I've got to go to them.
    Yoda: Decide you must, how to serve them best. If you leave now, help them you could; but you would destroy all for which they have fought, and suffered.

    ...

    Yoda: Told you I did. Reckless is he. Now, matters are worse.
    Obi-Wan: That boy was our last hope.
    Yoda: No. There is another.

    In ROTJ, Luke returns and Yoda tells him he has all he needs to complete his current task, and that once he confronts Vader he'll be a Jedi. He tells him to pass one what he has learned. At the end of ROTJ, Luke proves himself right; that his father could be brought back. He learned that attachments can be good, in balance. As Luke looks at the ghosts of Obi-wan, Yoda and his father, he smiles knowing he won. But what if, as Yoda already knew ... matters are still worse. Luke, only half-trained, has to do all of this on his own and will have a difficult time doing so. Saving his father may have been the quick and easy path, just as saving his friends was, it ended up right, but with more consequences. Yoda knew that Luke would have to take the long road now.

  15. Avalanche19 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2016
    star 1
    Interesting your post is, contemplate on it I must
  16. nightangel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2014
    star 6
    hmmm, never saw this before and it seems a deleted scene from ROTJ. Luke as a prisoner of the rebels? [face_thinking]
    [IMG]
    Last edited by nightangel, Jan 12, 2017
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  17. Darth Smurf Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2015
    star 4
  18. nightangel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2014
    star 6
    not sure, or a promo shot?
  19. Gigoran Monk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2016
    star 4
    I really think that the original plan involved Leia confronting Kylo, and being forced to either kill him, or let him die.
  20. Sable de luz Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2015
    star 2
    N
    No more trainning do you require.
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  21. nightangel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2014
    star 6
  22. arjank Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2015
    star 4
    It's probably fanart but I can't wait to see this in the cinema.
    nightangel likes this.
  23. DarkGingerJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2012
    star 4
    ...To complete the current task.

    If you were a Jedi master who was mere seconds away from becoming one with the Force, and this impulsive kid who you trained for 2 weeks was about to go up against Vader and Emperor, and you needed to give him a pep talk, what would you tell him?

    Yoda: Blew it, you did. Stayed. Completed your training, you should have. Now...rest I need. Go. Confront Vader. Fail, you probably will. [Becomes one with the Force]

    or...

    Yoda: No more training do you require.

    Luke doesn't listen anyway. So Yoda tells him the truth, from a certain point of view. By the grace of the Force, Luke managed to pull a hail mary and Vader chucks the Emperor over the railing. Still does't change the face, that Luke is going to have to spend the next few decades - not running away - and complete his training the hard way. Matters are worse, in a sense.
  24. nightangel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2014
    star 6
    :rolleyes: Everything Luke did in ROTJ was wise beyond his years. Never heard such a terrible interpretation. :rolleyes:
    Last edited by nightangel, Jan 12, 2017
  25. Strongbow Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2014
    star 4


    Weird interpretation, IMO. If anything, I think ESB and ROTJ reveal that some of the teaching of the Republic Jedi, including Yoda and Obi-Wan was wrong. They preached against attachment, but attachment to his friends and father is what saved all of them.

    I think Yoda is acknowledging that in facing Vader and resisting the Dark Side, and choosing instead to fall from that gantry rather than join with Vader, he had demonstrated the strength he needed to face Vader and Palps again. And his exploits against Jabba and his crew demonstrated that he developed enough mastery of the Force to effectively fight. He had passed his "trials."