ST Mark Hamill (Luke Skywalker) in the ST

That's not how you do user testing and research. You evaluate lots of different types of data and views, qualitative and quantitive. Understanding what bothers people in the world, in their lives, in the literature they read, the movies they watch. As Palpatine said, a less dogmatic view. You don't just go up to people and go "hey do you think Luke should die??"

 

No one knows, but people have wondered if it was so tarnished in his mind by Luke's moment of shame and consequence that he discarded it for good.

 

1. No it didn't please them all because it made a lot of money. Bank and popularity/affection are separate things. A closer examination would be revisit numbers and reviews. This isn't the thread for debating if it was well received or not, but I believe there is plenty of evidence to suggest it wasn't wholly loved.

2. What?? Your CUSTOMERS matter not critics.

3. I never said you were less of a fan, nor did I infer that believing less makes anyone less of a fan, don't be sensitive.

4.How is it selfish for a group of people to have input into a direction? That's like saying Democracy is selfish. I didn't say one fan should dictate it. If it's a mass of people who agree the same thing it's hardly selfish is it. A writer deciding it all on their own is selfish is what I'm saying.

 

Given what he did with Anakin’s, a reasonable guess is that it’s in the ocean somewhere near his X-Wing.

 

Or maybe Luke bled his crystal.

Since he was in pain by Kylo's betrayal.

And we know pain leads to bleeding.

 

I think that's a safe assumption. Or I assumed it got buried in the wreckage of the temple and didn't bother to look for it/couldn't find it.

 

Not even remotely important, but I then wonder what happened to Ben's. Didn't he have a blue one that he guarded himself with. Maybe he used Anakin's blue one and in that case he really did feel it belong to him when fighting Rey.

 

What if you open a restaurant and food critics love it and it's very successful? For example, it makes more money than any other restaurant in the world for an entire year. IF that happens, do you feel you need to bring up some people who HATED the way you cooked the steak and have them dictate how you should cook that steak?

 

I believe he reformed that saber into the one he is currently using. Honestly not sure if it's referenced in any visual dictionary, but people have compared the two hilts and, besides the color and the cross-guard addition, they're basically the same.

 

IIRC, Luke’s saber was actually one of the Ben saber props used for the ANH duel. They are indeed almost identical except for color.

ETA Here’s an article on this. Looks like it was indeed a modified Ben saber prop.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/inverse/luke-skywalkers-lightsabe_b_14367714.html

It’s possible Vader took Ben’s with him when he jumped in his TIE to fend off the DS attackers. If not, then Ben’s would have been destroyed on the DS.

 

"Luke's death was necessary to push those 3 newcomers forward."

Effective and careful story writing would have pushed the four new characters forward just fine with or without Luke's death. It's a non-answer AFAIC.

"...open up story possibilities for Luke as a force ghost rather than just have him along with the group."

Yes, because we all wanted to see Luke as a Force Ghost in 9, instead of oh, I don't know... alive. What novel thinking on Rian Johnson's part!

 

In an old interview (circa 1983), Mark says that Luke would be on an other plane of existence if he were to return in a sequel. Love it or hate it, it’s something Lucas considered.

http://comicbook.com/blog/2012/11/0...luke-skywalker-on-another-plane-of-existence/

 

Thank you! Only speaking for myself I would have hoped for something like this:



but all I got from Mr. Johnson instead was that:



Not every artist can be a Picasso...

 

The Art of the Last Jedi book confirms that the Jedi Academy flashback sequence and Rey's "duel" with Luke were added to the script very late in pre-production, after the release of the Force Awakens. The other major change was to remove Finn from the opening bombing sequence.

At the time, there was a rumor that LucasFilm and/or Disney ordered the script changes, because audiences had responded so positively to characters such as Poe and Rey, and the studio wanted more focus on them. The rumor also said two things that were later confirmed: 1) an Asian actress landed the role now known as Rose; and 2) the start of filming would be delayed a month to accomodate the script revisions, from January to February 2016.

The late addition of the Academy flashback is interesting, because it has become a flashpoint of discussion, and it might have been added at the request of LucasFilm and/or Disney. Narratively, it is a key point for Rey's decision to leave Luke and her training. But it also has a large impact on Luke's character arc.

 

See, I disagree with this. Killing Luke wasn’t better for the story, in my opinion. He still had a job to do, and it wouldn’t have taken the focus off if Rey. In fact, it would have brought the focus back onto her. She sort of got shuffled to the sidelines in TLJ because Johnson chose to deconstruct and degrade Luke’s character. That meant that he also had to use more screen time to show us this disgruntled and damaged Luke, and then had to try to give him something to bring him up a little before killing him off.

Because of all that, we never got to see the so-called “beating heart” relationship between Luke and the one he was expected to pass the baton to. We never really saw Luke truly training Rey or sharing wisdom. We never got to see Rey make mistakes; struggle; be tested; grow; or change. Because of the story that Rian Johnson chose to tell, the focus was on Luke or Kylo much of the time, not where it should have been: on Rey and Rey’s learning, challenges, and growth.

If Luke had survived, the focus could have gone back to Rey as she was either trained onscreen in the beginning of ix, or the audience learns that Rey was trained by Luke between films. A lot of people already feel that Rey is too talented in too many ways, and that she can simply do whatever the plot requires her to do, without any lessons and without any guidance by anyone. If, as now seems likely, Rey is officially a self-trained Jedi and Jedi Master in the next film, those over-powered , MS accusations will be running rampant again. At least if she were trained by Luke, her Jedi skills would make more sense and be more logical, and less of a joke. Plus, it would have been better for Luke’s character too, because he would have actually accomplished something that would be a lasting, tangible, and true legacy.

Then, Luke could have gone back to Ahch to or dagobah, or Jedha, or Tatooine or wherever to quietly train Jedi in the background. We never would have needed to see him again, but at least we would have known that he was rebuilding the Jedi order while also redeeming himself for the mistakes he made. Meanwhile, Rey would be front and center in the galaxy; doing the active, heroic things for years to come. Rey won’t have time to find and train new Jedi for many years. She’s going to be too busy.

I think Luke living would have been better for both characters and for the story, and more satisfying for the audience.

As for the claim that they are going to have some grand role for Luke as a force ghost, that he can somehow do more as a host than he can as a living Jedi Master, I completely disagree. We have never seen force ghosts accomplish much of anything, and if they truly had a plan for Luke, he would have survived. They had to know that a living Luke at the end of TLJ would have gone over a lot better with a lot more people than a dead one.

 

Thinking back on TLJ, it's striking how layered and complex the Son of Skywalker is. Mark has never been better, and Luke has never been more interesting.

In a film lush with highlights, the handling of Luke is among the cream.

 

Agreed.

 

A natural discussion on Rey and her potential relationship with Luke in the Rey thread lead to my take on what could have possibly happened regarding the Luke and Yoda relationship that would have been closer to what Luke and Rey go through (but obviously didn’t happen).

I think the best of the Rey and Luke relationship is coming up. He became what she’d hoped for and believed in. She sensed his increase purpose. He’s past his issues and sees her as the Last Jedi.

I see it in some ways as a much more extended and alternate take version of what could have happened differently between Luke and Yoda. Only if Luke’s goal was to get Yoda to come back and defeat the Emperor based on how close he’d come so many years prior and Yoda telling him no and that he’d gone into exile because the Jedi had let Sidious rise and had trained Vader and that being the first big reveal there. And that revelation leading to anger from Luke that the Jedi trained Vader who killed his father and that insisting that Luke wasn’t ready to begin training and Luke storming off with a book on the Jedi from Yoda’s Hutt and running off the face Vader and then at the end of Empire if Yoda did show up one last time to face Sidious somehow and the combination of those two things leading to Luke and Yoda building s better relationship into ROTJ where more of the mentorship and advice we love from TESB was pushed into ROTJ.

I fully expect Luke and Rey to be closer and for him to be her only Force Ghost the rest of the way.

 

The thought that one character has to die or be sidelined so others can shine is simplistic and wrong. Yoda was active and saved characters in AotC and RotS, and didn't steal the spotlight from any character.

It's like in wrestling, when one character can win but still puts the other character over and shines them up. For reference see Hart vs Austin or Hart vs 123 kid.

 

“It’s like in wrestling”

Phew, I’m glad RJ didn’t consider dynamics in wrestling when writing this film.

 

He should have, it would have been more consistent and better drama than what he made

 

Hey, if wrestling’s the type of drama you like, that’s cool

 

Not really a fan anymore, but I definitely like it better than what Rian did.

 

Er, OK?

 

If somehow the prequels really did exist first and fans voted in a choose your own adventure way about the OT then Kenobi would have survived to the very end and died in ROTJ in front of Luke just before Luke faced Vader. Yoda never would have been kooky or eccentric at all because that would have been too disrespectul of his earlier heroics with the Emperor in the PT. Yoda also wouldn’t be in exile. He’d have been trying to build a temple in secret. His successful secret Temple would have also had Togruta and Nautolans in it to help Luke along with a beautiful human female for Luke to fall in love with. Yoda would then return to face the Emperor at the end and Obi-Wan would face Anakin one last time. Luke would see Yoda Kill the emperor but also see Yoda die before him just after doing so and Obi-Wan would die this time but fight very much like he did in ROTS as an older man. Luke would then face Vader alone. Vader would aplogize to Luke and tell him he looks forward to all the years ahead together as father and son they have. Then it would be revealed that Anakin could save Obi-Wan and Yoda and bring them back from the dead because he had learned this from Sidious and Anakin would have brought all of his masters back from the dead. Then they’d all form a super Temple together in an epilogue as friends with the love interest of Luke’s would be visibly pregnant.

Han also would have never been frozen in carbonite and would have had a one on one fight with Boba Fett that lasted minutes with Han killing him with his bare hands. It all would have been fun wish fulfillment stuff. Just like what fans are asking for now. And it wouldn’t have become a classic for being like that because most fans think more about what they want to see and less about what the hardest thing is for their heroes to have to face.