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TFA TLJ Mark Hamill (Luke Skywalker) in the ST

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by Darth_Voider, Dec 17, 2015.

  1. T-R-

    T-R- Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Um, what?
     
    -LordSkywalker- likes this.
  2. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    That wresting reference earlier? I didn’t get that either. Sorry.
     
    jaqen likes this.
  3. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    In his last minutes Luke seems like he was feeling too much pain. It's sad that the last time Leia saw Luke, he wasn't really there
     
  4. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Fearless Vampire Killer star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    The topic of this thread is NOT how both "sides" conveniently don't understand each other's references.
     
  5. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    He was real in 99% of whatever that word means in such a situation. Real to Leia who was happy to see him. He could give her objects that she could see and hold. He could kiss her. C3PO could even sense him. He was not a recording. He was seeing and reacting and moving himself around time and space and creating sound.

    He was essentially there for everyone who was there that day. He was simply invinceable and then he decided to disappear. That’s the perspective for anyone except us who knows more.
     
    jaqen likes this.
  6. n8storm

    n8storm Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    May 24, 2005
    Had he been portrayed better, I wouldn't have much of an issue with Luke being a force ghost in 9 even though I'd prefer he be alive. I think the way he is portrayed in 8, it would be better in 9 if he could redeem himself more while still being alive rather than just a force ghost. I think with Carrie Fisher dying, it also makes for a better story to keep Luke alive. Just don't make him disappear at the end. It would be an easy change, but I'm sure Rian would have gone off had they tried to change it.
     
    ChildOfWinds likes this.
  7. NHB0M

    NHB0M Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2016
    If they were not able to write Luke in the first movie and they had to kill him in the second one...why have any grand expectations for his ghost in the last one ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
  8. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    “Redeem himself more”

    Disagree. His “redemption” (I wouldn’t call it that, so much as a return) paid off that arc, and Luke in IX continuing to “redeem himself’ would effectively be a drama killer - he’d be on “one last adventure” or something, and it would feel like belatedly going down the conventional path they avoided with Luke. Force ghost Luke might not be exactly what people want. But if they have a possibility in mindof what to do with him, I want to see that.
    I suspect that those people dismissively speculating that there’ll be a one scene cameo where he “tells perfect Rey what to do even though she needs no help” will be surprised.
     
    jaqen, TK327 and Satipo like this.
  9. n8storm

    n8storm Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    May 24, 2005
    So Luke's great redemption was to provide a distraction for the just dozen or so people left, but not tell anyone like Leia what he was doing? Instead, they all just stand there and watch him half the time before Poe figures out he is providing a distraction.
     
  10. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    I’m not engaging with reductive nonsense anymore. If that’s your genuine take on what happened, you didn’t pat attention to what was obviously happening. Try again, being honest about what Luke did, or moan in the complaints thread.
     
    Dagobah_Dude, Nate787 and jaqen like this.
  11. Darren_Saw

    Darren_Saw Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2015
    A one scene cameo would be the worst of all options. Luke should now be done, I can't see any option where some FG appearance would be worthwhile. Hopefully they won't introduce some all powerful omnipotent Luke entity, unlikely as it would overshadow the new characters.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
     
    MasterPrince713 likes this.
  12. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Can you give a brief précis of your writing credentials, so I know quite how much stock to place in the fact that you personally can’t see any optilns in which “FG Luke would be worthwhile”?
     
  13. Darren_Saw

    Darren_Saw Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Apologies, I forgot we need to all be professional screen writers to be allowed to state our personal opinions on an internet forum.



    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
     
  14. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    State any opinion you want, but two years out, with zero knowledge of any plot points of IX, to flat out say “FG Luke can’t work” is a statement that will be scrutinised. If you’re not basing it on any actual thought about how it could work, then that’s fine, it’s your personal opinion, and it’s noted.
     
    Mungo Baobab and Satipo like this.
  15. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Force Ghost Obi-Wan and Yoda were...

    wait a second...

    both awesome!

    And not significantly different than being there giving advice.
     
    Mungo Baobab likes this.
  16. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    FG Luke can definitely work. There is plenty of potential there. Open your eyes to what those possibilities could be and you might find you enjoy what happens with him next. If you're crossing your arms and shaking your head going "NOPE" for the next step of his arc, guaranteed you will hate it. Ask anyone who demanded that Luke do "x" in TLJ or that Rey be Related. You can't dictate the story. You can keep an open mind to how it might unfold. You're not guaranteed to like it that way either, but you definitely have a better chance.
     
    Mungo Baobab , TK327 and CEB like this.
  17. themoth

    themoth Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2015
    I dig how Luke returns to save Leia and the rebels in their most desperate hour. The old hologram R2 plays of ANH Leia isn’t just a nostalgic hit, it’s a foreshadowing.
     
  18. Tycalibur

    Tycalibur Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2001
    A few posts back, I believe A Chorus of Disapproval clearly stated: "The topic of this thread is NOT how both "sides" conveniently don't understand each other's references."

    I will now state only my and only my opinion about Force Ghost Luke and try to expound on that opinion a bit. Force Ghost Luke is often spoken of as an exciting element of IX, or as an acceptable consolation prize. Unless they radically change canon about exactly what Force Ghosts can do (and they showed signs of doing this with Yoda, and not necessarily in a good way), Force Ghost Luke will never live up to the potential that a living, breathing Luke would have, or could have. Then, if you take a look at past canon...I always felt Obi-Wan's role as a ghost was severely limited, which made him a very limited character after his death. I also cannot ignore the fact that Jeffrey Jacob Abrams is inherently wacky enough to bring Luke back, or write him into IX as not having exactly died/become one with the Force. A lot can be said to be 'on the table' now, due to the arguable writing decisions made in TLJ.

    I speak only for myself. I do not consider TLJ a favorite...it it mainly because of Luke's story treatment, and not because the fan theory wishlist was not 'fulfilled' by the film. I certainly wanted an original story, I simply dislike the fact that the story elements chosen for the film weren't remotely close to being as good as, nor better than the fan theories, especially those selected about Luke. Most of the theories about Luke could be considered bad fan fiction, and I expected the movie to play out better than them...and they couldn't even make the story better than what the fans were sloppily dreaming up.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  19. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    I personally feel that, to a degree, they’ve sacrificed clear, comprehensible storytelling for the sake of mystery. We’ll see if they end up with the payoff they expected.
     
    SkywalkerOG likes this.
  20. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    I agree that they`re unlikely to give him a redemption story now as a Force Ghost. Unfortunately, I would need the mother of all redemption stories to like and respect this incarnation of the character again. So this is a catch 22 now for me.

    If it wasn`t the final movie of the trilogy there would probably a better chance to introduce something like a battle in the spirit realm or something like that. But for episode 9 that would most likely overburden the plot.
     
  21. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Given that FG Yoda can bring lightening from the sky and manipulate objects (e.g. hitting Luke on the head with a log), it seems that FG Luke might not be terribly different from living Luke. The exception might be when he "can't interfere."
     
  22. ChildOfWinds

    ChildOfWinds Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2001
    Which is why a living, breathing Luke would have been better. I believe that Rian Johnson said something about there being more that could be done with Luke as a force ghost, and I definitely disagree about that. As I keep saying, if they really had a plan for Luke for ix, if they really had a role for him to play, they wouldn’t have killed Luke off. And, there SHOULD have been a role for Luke to play. He was the only Jedi Master, and Rey wasn’t even trained. Luke should have lived to train her, and later, others. I am not a fan of the idea that a person can magically become a Jedi in less than a week and with no training, which seems to be what we are getting. No work, no struggle, no effort, no guidance involved, just instant Jedi.

    No thanks!
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  23. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Rey's not a Jedi yet. And the ST isn't primarily about Luke.
     
  24. ChildOfWinds

    ChildOfWinds Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2001
    Well, for someone who is not a Jedi, she seems to be showing some pretty impressive skills! In the boulder juggle and the battle against the guards, she seemed to be on a par after a few days with Luke after four years. And, if she is not a Jedi yet, who is going to train her?! The only Jedi Master died from using the force, so there is no one left to teach her. And, I am sorry, but I hate the idea that she can become a Jedi by reading books and without being mentored, guided, or directly taught by a Jedi Master.

    As for this not being about Luke, I think we all know that Rey is supposed to be the main character. Someone should have mentioned this to Rian Johnson though, because Rey was even sidelined for a while and Luke and Kylo were given focus. Rey didn’t learn anything; Rey didn’t stuggle; she really wasn’t tested; she didn’t grow; she didn’t make mistakes. Instead Johnson presented Luke as the one who made mistakes and struggled; as the one who still needed to learn. It shouldn’t have been this way. This story was all backwards.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  25. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Is being a Jedi about lifting boulders though? I mean, that's not really what it's about. Luke can still train Rey as a ghost and maybe some other ghosts will show up as well. Rey also has the "sacred Jedi texts" which she'll probably read before IX. Rey is a character who differs from Luke in a lot of ways. One way is that she is a more independent character who relies less on others to teach her skills. Rey has had to develop her skills on her own, and that's just a part of her character.

    I don't wish to enter into the debate about if Rey struggled or not in this thread. Rey's struggles from my POV in TLJ are primarily on a personal level. It's about her belief that someone else needs to show her her place in things--this looking for someone to define her for her. She also deals with her abandonment issues. These are the things that are blocking Rey from determining her own place or defining herself. So she does travel through the darkness, it's just in a different way.
     
    rorow1 likes this.