ST Mark Hamill (Luke Skywalker) in the ST

The way I see it is that after ROTJ, Luke was hero-worshipped across the galaxy. (In fact, he was even hero-worshipped in OUR universe.) He became a living legend. In TLJ he resented that because, in reality, he could not live up to his reputation. He knew people wanted him to face down the FO, but the weight of expectation was massive. Rather than march out onto Crait and fight the FO and get killed in the process and reveal that, in the end, he was just flesh and blood, his more cunning plan was to Force project himself and reveal himself almost like a demigod. The torrent of laser blasts didn't harm him, Kylo's lightsaber didn't harm him - and everyone could see that. The legendary Luke Skywalker lived on in the hearts and minds of people. People like broom boy don't know that he died. He knows that the legend that is Luke Skywalker faced down the First Order and survived. Wow! Both JJ and RJ developed their films around the premise of "Who is Luke Skywalker?" The answer is that there are two: the Luke Skywalker of legend and the flesh and blood Luke Skywalker. What Luke realised is that the Luke Skywalker who people both in-universe and in the real world think they know doesn't really exist. Rey was right in that he is a myth. Luke played on this by making the myth real. Yes Luke may have taken out an AT-AT or two but he would have been a stain on the surface of Crait soon afterwards. Instead, he inspired the galaxy to rise up against the FO, rather than expect him to sort it out! That is what Luke achieved in his final few moments. I know some fans really don't like Luke's portrayal in TLJ, but for me it was 10/10. When he died, I had tears in my eyes.

In his lifetime, what did Luke achieve? He stopped the Death Star from destroying further planets and saved the Rebellion, he wiped out Jabba the Hutt's criminal empire and brought his father back to the light (which other Jedi thought impossible) who finally managed to fulfil the prophecy of destroying the Sith and bringing balance to the Force. In the end he realised that it was not his mission to restart the Jedi Order. That was someone else's. The Jedi had to be reborn from a new seed, rather than the old, but that he'd always be around to pass on what he had learned. I don't see the ST as having wiped out his achievements as, after all, the Empire didn't really die at the end of VI, it went into hiding like a wounded animal. The fight is still going on....

 

Yeah, I can't get onboard with the idea that the achievements of the big three were nullified or in vain just because darkness rose once more 25 years later. The real world doesn't operate that way, and neither do most fictional worlds. It seems an unfair demand IMO.

 

People wouldn`t have cherished him - as flesh and blood - if he hadn`t existed in the OT. I mean, he didn`t start that as some big hero. It took three movies to get there. And in those movies I felt the man, the actual flesh and blood man, earned the moniker of "hero". So to me it`s not true that the myth was just some fabricated thing that was never based on reality.

It`s only in TLJ where the man is a disappointment and only the myth remains. Don`t get me wrong, I was, well, not happy but maybe relieved that at least something positive remained. But the disappointment of the flesh and blood part is the more crushing blow.

 

The only myth that’s fabricated is the one that results at the end of TLJ. It’s a trick on the galaxy that distracts from the actual heroism that accomplished something substantive for the galaxy in TFA through the destruction of SKB. Instead of focusing on myths built on deception, the galaxy should be looking up to flesh and blood heroism of the sort Luke Skywalker exhibited in the OT, and that the Resistance did exhibit in TFA.

 

Luke's full arc is one the most epic things in SW for me right now. First time I cried while watching SW film. My boyfriend even decided to watch OT after TLJ because he wanted to see Luke's journey. (He was never interested in SW before and went to the cinema just with me.)

 

I think the Crait thing might work for propaganda on some level but I agree that can only extend so far. Personally I might be tempted to join the rebellion if I were to believe they had a "superweapon" of sorts in Luke - and no, not Rey at this point - but leave quickly again if he never showed up to fight again.

 

Sure, but when you leave because he’s AWOL, wouldn’t you be a bit more cynical next time? I certainly would. Don’t give me lies in your propaganda, especially when there’s plenty of inspirational truth to base hope on.

But even in terms of propaganda, where was he before the Resistance was totally wiped out? Seems like a logical question that cynics like myself all over the galaxy would be asking.

 

Nice mirrors of those two shots.

 

Of course, I would be cynical. I`d never come back if I found out it was false propaganda.

As for questioning why he wasn`t there, yes, that would be natural. Though on that level I can totally imagine that people would think he had to be away for a very important, galaxy-saving reason. I mean noone would imagine that a hero would just run and hide like that, that`s kinda outside the job description. So I get that the people in the GFFA would never even guess the reality of it. The Resistance is probably not stupid enough to tell them and if the FO did, you`d wipe it away as an obvious attempt of defamation of character.

On that level the myth might be well protected within universe. Outside of the fourth wall is the problem because there the myth can`t really work.

 

And some probably are asking that. Just as I'm sure some of the public had questions about where the Jedi who trained Luke Skywalker were when everything turned horrible and planets were destroyed when they learned of a Jedi knight who saved them from an evil Emperor and Darth Vader. Just as Bloodline showed us that the public's reaction to the shocking revelation that Darth Vader was Luke and Leia's father lead to questions and issues for Leia. In fact, to some of their minds he may have gone into retirement and felt unwanted based on that reveal and the discussions that were going on then about the Skywalker family. It's possible the public were upset for a time... but that faded and they began wishing for Jedi heroes again. I've made this comparison in the hero's journey thread but there are some serious structural parallels between Luke and Batman in the Dark Knight Rises in TLJ. And, honestly, when I made that comparison I hadn't even considered the whole Bloodline aspect of the public realizing Leia and Luke were the descendants of Vader. That adds to it even more because in TDKR Batman's in exile because he took the PR fall for Harvey Dent's crimes but the public wanted "The Batman" back too.

 

Luke is apparently dead. If Luke had single-handedly held off those walkers - like in that cartoon that’s been going around - and survived, I could see that being an act that would inspire the galaxy. But now? Cool trick, Luke. The Resistance is still down to 15 people and one ship.

 

That’s a good point. Propaganda isn’t remembered for who questioned it. It’s remembered for who ate it up.

Here’s the thing though. Luke was a hero known throughout the galaxy before he was a Jedi. He first became a hero, alongside Han, because he/they destroyed the Death Star. They saved unknown amounts of people from their planets’ annihilation and they saved everyone from the fear of that annihilation.

The parallel to that heroism is not Luke tricking the FO for five minutes so 20 survivors of a defeated army could escape with their lives. Jedi heroism isn’t even the parallel to that. Poe, Han and Finn destroying SKB is the obvious parallel to that with actual real world ramifications for every single citizen of the galaxy.

A lot is made of the myth of Luke Skywalker, but he wasn’t remembered because of a myth. He was remembered because of action that made a real difference. It’s interesting to me that the message of TLJ is that the myth of Luke Skywalker is based on a false premise, but sometimes people need a myth to believe in. Except that false premise only exists in the confines of TLJ. Luke wasn’t a false hero in the OT. He was a flesh and blood hero with actual actions to back it up.

 

I think the people in the real world that are complaining that Luke didn't live up to their expectations are exactly the people Luke wanted to get away from in the GFFA.

 

Well, in the new cannon they've indicated that almost everything related to Luke to the public seems to be incredibly mythic now in the first new cannon book obviously.



There's some obvious Jesus of Nazareth parallels here. Click the spoiler tag if not religious or not easily offended by the possibility of disbelief in Jesus of Nazareth's more extreme feats

Spoiler

The human Jesus was a scholar of the first testament, and probably an amazingly charismatic and caring leader of the poor who inspired a movement that's lasted thousands of years. He may have even had some basic medicinal knowledge, potentially some mentalism skill he simply had without realizing that's what it was, and some power of persuasion abilities far beyond that of the average person of that time period. Anyone with all of those skills in that time period might think they're special. Anyone with those kinds of abilities claiming to be the Son of God was bound to develop a movement and indeed countless other people who've claimed the same type of thing since have also had their own movements. Imagine what someone with even David Blaine's abilities would seem like if you somehow transported them back in time 2000 years ago there. Every real feat worthy of acclaim likely grew larger than life over time and the tales grew taller to the point of water and wine and disappearing and resurrection and instant healing and so much more. His real feats, his charm, his charisma and ahead of his time healing techniques for the poor probably were revolutionary but he almost certainly wasn't the actual Son of God any more than anyone reading this is a child of whatever it is one believes in. However, try telling an extremely religious person this and who knows what might happen to you. So, imagine that same kind of devotion from some who now believe that Luke came back to save a movement on its last legs that now needs others to join it. Heck, in this world some may even know that his father really was Space Jesus and came from a virgin birth.

 

Even TLJ never really specified that people en masse put expectations on him. Noone swarmed the planet where he set up the training temple and asked daily how the new Jedi were coming along. Leia didn`t holocom in every other day to ask if Ben was straightened out yet. Luke can`t place his epic failures on either the old Jedi or the people of th GFFA or anyone.

Not to mention if one acts like a disappointment, they can`t then complain about people viewing them as a disappointment later on. I mean, technically, yes but that makes them look even worse.

Yup. I do still believe it is unfair to besmirch OT!Luke with the "false myth" premise. At that point he had done nothing to deserve that.

 

To be clear, we don't know the extent to what the public believes. We are all just speculating. My points was to remind of the power of movements and myth only. For all of the real things Luke did it's possible that even just the idea of him returning and announcing a new Jedi, who the public believe killed Snoke, is big news.

There could certainly be a Hunger Games-like aspect to IX with the role of the public and propaganda though and Kylo Ren eventually revealing that the new Jedi saviour didn't in fact kill Snoke. He did.

 

Yes I agree in terms of the new canon, but it isn't a theme that exists in the movies before the ST. Even in the new canon, Luke is primarily remembered because of the events of the OT, not his post-RotJ activities. He's been mythified sure, but at the core of his story, his heroism wasn't mythical, it was human... at least in gffa terms. Except in TLJ, where his heroism is much more mythical in nature than human with substantive results.

But yeah, I do see the point that Luke has become a Jesus-like prophet figure. I won't go into it too much because I know it's off topic, but just as a general observation it is very Dune-like. I guess in that sense, I think RJ really made his point. TLJ seems to be about how that kind of hero-worship isn't healthy. If the galaxy needed Luke's symbolic but not substantive act at the end of TLJ to want to fight back, more than they just needed to see the Resistance stand up to the FO and take out SKB, it's like the galaxy has regressed since the time of the OT spiritually.

 

At least the myth of Luke should remain about Luke and not also be handed to Rey. She already got to outshine him in pretty much everything else. I want some piece of it to remain just Luke Skywalker. Even if it`s only that stupid legend.

 

Yeah this is where this theme confuses me. It's like TLJ is an answer to a problem that didn't exist. I never saw anyone hero worshipping Luke by treating him like a god (and I'm talking about the movies here). I just saw Luke remembered for his actual accomplishments, and in TFA the galaxy yearned for a return of the Jedi Order to help fight evil. Why wouldn't the galaxy want that? But that isn't specifically about Luke, other than he's the only one capable at that moment in time of doing it.

 

It’s funny; even at the time, people were desperate for Jesus to call Himself a prophet, a teacher, even the reincarnation of a Patriarch, but He refused, insisting He was God’s actual son.
There’s more of that here. Jesus of Nazareth was either who He said He was, God’s Son and th Messiah, or He was a lunatic and the Gospel is the most hurtful lie ever told, one that has led to hundreds of millions of people wasting countless years in prayer and worship.
What a person chooses to believe is competely a matter of choice, but I don’t like the idea of this ‘watered-down’ Jesus that has become so popular because it goes against what He is recorded to have said about Himself.

Luke, on the other hand, seems to have had no active role in his own legend growing. It is the people who interacted with him who told stories that made him bigger than life, and by TLJ, he resents the story and thinks himself a fraud. That’s nothing like the story of Jesus. Jesus didn’t have the role of Messiah thrust onto Him; He claimed it.

There ends the sermon, lol. Sorry to get all theooogical, but I don’t see the Space Jesus parallel with Luke. Everyone who does legendary deeds and sacrifices himself isn’t a good Jesus comparison.

 

This is a good post and I agree with a lot of it. It's an easy comparison for many to make when thinking about Luke's myth and inspiring the public but it is admittedly a lazy one.

 

The movie wants us to ditch the legend we built up in our heads, and know the real hero. While then giving us the false legend, and telling us that the legend is the most inspiring part of the hero. Pretty conflicting.

I feel like what Luke did at the end of TLJ was, essentially, performing a lie, because that's what he believed the people wanted to see. (It's a little meta, isn't?) I'm not even sure that's what the galaxy was even demanding, but it's what Luke has - in a way - pessimistically judged upon the galaxy. He feels like he can't live up to this legendary expectation, even at the end, so he performs what he believes everyone wants to see, from a safe distance, hoping that it inspires people, or at least saves the Resistance. But it's still a lie. It's inspiration based on a lie. Isn't that dangerous? Isn't that what the movie also tries to warn us about?

Luke changes his projected 'physical' appearance. He makes himself appear stronger, youthful, healthy, and more powerful. Possibly to connect with Kylo in some way, but mostly just to taunt him. But really it just seems like a man who still can't confront his own truth. He still seems shameful of himself. He hides behind this invented legendary mask, just like his own father had hid underneath his own dark mask, making himself appear more powerful on the outside, while the inside was weak and vulnerable, and ultimately safer because of this armor. Luke is safe on Ahch-to, knowing nothing can truly harm him. Vader at least, at the end, faced his own fears, and wanted to see Luke with his own eyes, even while knowing that it would cost him his life. He wanted to Luke to see the weak old man. The one on the inside. The Truth. Because it was the weak old man who was strong with the Force...and had won. It wasn't Vader. It wasn't some projected physically powerful being. It was a weak old Anakin who conquered the dark side. Now that's inspirational.



Is this the message we want from a Jedi Master who supposedly has learned why the Jedi have failed? That the light side can lie too? That size really does matter? That we're luminous begins, but the physical is inspirational? I can't find myself getting on board with that. This fundamentally changes everything Luke learned and proved about the Force and the Jedi. Sure, it looks cool. Sure the galaxy (and the fans) are amazed by it. But it feels, to me, ultimately hollow, and un-Jedi-like.

What happens when the galaxy finds out that the Jedi are just flesh and blood mortals? What happens when they demand that Rey walk out in front of some AT-AT knowing that Jedi's can't be hurt by lasers like Luke was? What happens when other Jedi don't live up to the legend Luke has now confirmed, and the lie that Luke now has established. I think he's setting up more failure and more disappointment in the long run. Instead of making a simple, truthful action a defining moment of Luke's belief in the force...of the Jedi themselves, he makes it this grand hollow gesture. A false one.

I'm reminded of Yoda lifting the X-wing out of the swamp. Luke looks amazed by the spectacle, while Yoda looks on almost disappointed in him and calls him a failure. The Force is so much more than parlor tricks. In TLJ, Luke uses a parlor trick to confront Kylo and inspire the galaxy. It would be one thing, if Luke had shown that this pathetic parlor trick pales in comparison to the real Force, and teaches them all what's it all about, perhaps killing the legend in the process. But what Luke's action (and the writer's) show us is ultimately that the spectacle is what the Force is all about. Grand. Showy. Illusion. Trick. Distraction. And the scene doesn't play out like some final master/student lesson which could benefit Kylo and the galaxy - as it did with Yoda and Luke in the swamp - no, the scene plays more out like Vader taunting Luke in ESB.

So I feel like Luke could have done a simple, yet heroic act, much like all the other ones he's done in his life, and it would have resonated more effectively. Luke could have stepped out there, taken off his mask, and shown the galaxy the real Luke, and teach them that the legends they built up are wrong, and that the truth about the Force is more rewarding. The same Force that Luke used to resist the dark side and redeem his father. Again, now that's inspirational.

 

Now Superman on the other hand ...

 

Now I actually do believe he made an accurate assessment there. Back in ROTJ when he walked into Jabba`s palace, he exuded a lot more confidence than we had seen in previous movies. Some of it bluster? Yes. But in some situations you either go big or go home. In that vein I had no trouble with changing his appearance to the Crait vision.

 

You and I haven't always seen eye to eye with Star Wars but I really, really, really like your examination of this and value it. These are terrific questions and although the answers aren't clear I still think part of the magic of this film is that it's leading to examinations like this.

One key aspect that I was hoping you'd point out, and I kept waiting for it and expecting it based on how much you seemed to be thinking about the other perspective while sharing your own, is that Luke has no other option to help or leave the planet beyond what he does once he's realized his mistake. That's huge and changes everything here. It's not that he could have been there but decided to do this instead. It's that he realized his mistake, wanted to help, and had to draw on tremendous Force power, knowledge and concentration to help the only way he could in that moment. Just as he had so many other times before when he did the best to help his friends despite knowing it might not end well for him. This was the "They're my friends. I've got to help them" Luke again and the "I can save him. I've got to try" Luke again. He literally refused to give up hope despite having no functioning ship to get there and did everything in his power and physically sacrificed himself to help.

We can get caught up on the implications of the public inspiration and how he looked and lose sight of that basic aspect. He realized he had to help and gave all that he had (literally) do do so, and then... knowing he wouldn't be long for the world afterward... atoned for his mistakes to his remaining family members. When you view it more from that perspective it's far more beautiful and selfless. It's the apex of his creativity, his morality, his power, his knowledge, his renewed faith, and the reminder of who he was, and his desire to help the only way he can. That he does it in a badass way that is also what the public wanted... is just the icing on the cake.