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TFA TLJ Mark Hamill (Luke Skywalker) in the ST

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by Darth_Voider, Dec 17, 2015.

  1. sls062286

    sls062286 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 10, 2016
    I really would like to understand how. I mean he basically gave up and instead of trying to deal with his mistakes he hides away, then is a jerk to the main character who is just looking for help, then when Yoda conviently shows up to chew him out, he finally realzies "man, I better actually do something, my bad". Its really that he didnt take responsibility for what happened. He blames himself for Kylo, but left everyone else to deal with it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    ChildOfWinds and -LordSkywalker- like this.
  2. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    I think it does make a big difference if you have sympathy for him of if you do not. I just can`t bring myself to excuse his behaviour (and do not see his "return" as either particularly heroic or awe-inspiring) because it is the bottom of the barrel for me. But I do acknowledge that others have different no-gos in terms of actions, character traits and behaviour.
     
    -LordSkywalker- likes this.
  3. sls062286

    sls062286 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 10, 2016
    I just tend to lose sympathy when someone leaves their mistakes for other people to deal with. Whether or not Luke is to blame for Kylo, he blames himself, and yet just left everyone else to deal with it so he could go feel sorry for himself until he died.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  4. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    I can`t respect the character for that reason. And if I can`t do that, then I can`t have any sympathy.

    I actually have an easier time with characters who are evil so a darkside!Luke could have worked for me. This version in TLJ never had a chance with my personal preferences and outlooks.

    But, it might be the opposite for others.
     
    -LordSkywalker- and Darth Smurf like this.
  5. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    [:D] Welcome back. You're home again.
     
  6. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    I’d agree if I thought Luke had been all fine and dandy until the mistake with Kylo...

    The adult novelization confirms my suspicion that Snoke began effing with Luke when Luke became a direct threat to his plans, though. Which suggests some dramatic, epic gap-year material, but also that what we were told in TLJ was the tip of the iceberg.
     
  7. sls062286

    sls062286 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 10, 2016
    Im going by what we know now. Though I don't know what we could find out that would make it ok for Luke to just say "Im out, good luck everybody else!".
     
    -LordSkywalker- likes this.
  8. PymParticles

    PymParticles Cruel but Fair Tyrant of New Films star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2014
    I don't quite see it that way. I feel it's less that he left it for everyone else to deal with, rather than thinking his active involvement would only serve to make things worse, and that everyone else would be better off without him. He doesn't think he can fix it, but can only make it worse, so instead he chooses to die and have a null effect on the outcome. And I think that's the crux of what makes it work for me. It's something I've been trying to articulate for weeks, and I've come close to posting it a few times before, but for me at least I found it valuable to see a hero I idolized portrayed in this way. I'd almost go so far as to say I needed it, in a way. Advance warning, this is going to get really personal.

    Contrasting Luke in TLJ with Luke in the OT, I find the writing completely consistent in terms of who Luke is and why he does what he does. Luke always wants to be where he feels he'll either do the most help or the least damage. "They're my friends, I have to save them." "I'm endangering the mission, I shouldn't have come." The only issue is, Luke doesn't have perfect judgement, because he's human. He doesn't always have the right idea of what to do or where to be, and at worst that creates problems that impact him and those he loves, or at best it just has no impact at all.

    So we're seeing here a Luke that, through severe error of judgement, has lost faith in himself, his beliefs, and his cause, and (again through poor judgement, a consistent character trait Luke has displayed throughout the series) his solution is to die, because in his eyes, everyone is just better off without him anyways. As someone who spent years suffering from severe depression and suicidal thoughts, that... means a lot to me, and hits close to home. So, I don't see him as cowardly or pathetic, but as achingly human and painfully relatable.

    As a kid, Luke was easy for me to look up to and idolize because I saw so much of myself in him; he was plucky, optimistic, naive, trusting, etc. But as I got older, I made mistakes that shattered relationships, I lost people I cared about, and I held myself to a bar that I always seemed to fall several feet short of. Now that I'm older I've begun to reconcile all of these things into personal growth (with no shortage of borderline common sense wisdom from the Yodas in my life), and I saw a lot of that reflected in Luke. Because in spite of everything he went through, in the end he regained his faith in himself and others, and he realized that the faith people have in you deserves to be rewarded. He was as lost as he could be, but in the end he wasn't unsalvageable.

    I understand that not everyone is going to relate to Luke's portrayal or struggle in the film. That's fine, everyone's life experience is different. But for me at least, there was a great deal of value in seeing a hero I idolized in a less than ideal way, and still seeing him find "peace and purpose" before the end credits rolled.
     
    MarcJordan, TCF-1138 , EHT and 7 others like this.
  9. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    Maybe not “ok” but “understandable for anyone with a shred of humanity,” yes.

    I remember Mark indicating that, im his view, Luke Skywalker could certainly be reduced to the utterly broken man we see in TLJ. It would just take, well, more than what’s directly stated in TLJ. I think Mark may be more on the same page as the SH re his character than we’ve been lead to believe, actually.
     
  10. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    I get it from the film, TBH.
     
    rorow1 likes this.
  11. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    If he had perhaps lost his wife, his daughter, then I could understand it. You see that sadness in ROTJ where he says "I have no memory of my mother..."

    He was clearly caring about his family and its legacy.

    I did like that line he said of "Everything you just said was wrong."

    And Luke and R2D2, that is what I want to see more of!
     
    Glitterstimm likes this.
  12. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    Hold that thought....

    :)
     
    DarthTalonx likes this.
  13. sls062286

    sls062286 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 10, 2016
    Yeah, That probably do it for me. I'm not going to get burned by that hope again. I'm doing everything I can to keep from getting my hopes up that that's even a possibility anymore. It's bad enough they had Luke dreaming about a wife in the novelization.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  14. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    That wife was Camie. He was imagining how could be his life without his actions in OT. I can't see Luke being Rey's father at this point
     
  15. sls062286

    sls062286 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 10, 2016
    I know, I just said I wasn't expecting it.
     
    Jedi Jessy likes this.
  16. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    I don't like it because it look like he regret about what he did (saved Leia, became a rebel etc) and prefered to stay in Tatooine and living like his uncle.
     
  17. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    I wish the Battlefront 2 trailer (which suggested Iden tracked Luke down originally for revenge, but maybe ended up making a baby (cough Rey) with him) had happened. Although they completely changed that.

    Luke being Vader's heir would have surely meant some Imperials would have sought him out to ensure a peaceful transition?

    We still don't know, Luke may have had a family, and may still have one. I believe that is what Lucas intended. And we may see this in Episode IX , fingers crossed!

    Imagine this in Episode 7 or 8, Luke telling someone (possibly even Rey over a fire)

    I came here to find the secrets of the Jedi. Of the Force itself. Whilst I was away, they came for them. Those who didn't turn, they killed. I should never have left....but whatever I do causes pain to those around me...

    Master Skywalker, you have to come back. The galaxy needs the Jedi!

    Leia and Han once thought like you did. You don't know the power of the Supreme Leader. What he was able to achieve. Not even his former apprentice, with all his power, and his Empire could achieve that. You think that one Jedi can defeat that? They'll come after everything you have, everyone you care about, as they did with me. No one should have died [pain in Luke's eye's] because of that. I made sure that those I care about most, will never die or be associated with me...

    I was told that you could help us. And help me. You were the myth that kept us going. I never had a family. All I remember is that they left me. You still have one. You could still go back to them.

    Are you really ready to do whatever it takes to defeat them? Because once you do, you won't be a Jedi any longer...

    What do you mean?

    Once I had a wife, my great love. She was taken from me. I found her by the Temple, itself in flames. Like you, I was forced to learn that there are those without decency that must be fought without hesitation, without mercy. But I must do that alone.


    Maybe. Hopefully Luke gets revealed to have hidden Rey on Jakku, suppressed her memories to protect her identity and keep her safe. Her mother hopefully is an Imperial like Iden, who died trying to protect the Temple in his absence. Her family will eventually come to to the rescue of Leia and the Rebellion. They will be the left over Empire on Coruscant.

    Maybe Rey is powerful as Luke's offspring.

    The Force is strong in my family. I have it. My sister has it. You have that power too.

    Those words, maybe she will remember as she remembered or saw other things upon touching her family heirloom/lightsaber.

    Perhaps Luke has believed her to be gone so long, he did not recognise her.

    Well just a theory or hope at this point.

    Long live Luke Skywalker!

    I liked Luke's standoff against the army. Wish he also did that little finger wave like in ROTJ though.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  18. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    His situation in the prologue was AU.

    Completely AU.

    :)
     
  19. sls062286

    sls062286 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 10, 2016
    Like I said, It'd be great, but I'm not getting my hopes up again. It's bad enough that Rian is still playing coy saying in his mind Kylo thought he was telling the truth, but now it's up to JJ. Seriously dude, YOU wrote it. Out of anyone you have the power to decide if he was tells the truth. Im betting you even spoke to JJ at some point about his plans for I
    I think it's more just meant to tease.
     
  20. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    Nono - *really* AU....
     
  21. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    I mean, RJ threw out JJ’s ideas for the rest of the trilogy, so no one better than RJ understands how easily JJ could toss everything he foresaw as the future of Rey’s story. I have no doubt RJ envisioned Rey having Skywalker babies with Kylo someday and Luke being done in the trilogy. We’ll see what JJ does.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  22. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    The baby would be called Jaina.

    ps: I trust more in JJ than in Rian (I don't know about Chris Terrio) but Kathleen Kennedy still is the boss and I don't trust in her
     
    -LordSkywalker- and DarthTalonx like this.
  23. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    I wish the Battlefront 2 trailer (which suggested Iden tracked Luke down originally for revenge, but maybe ended up making a baby (cough Rey) with him) had happened. Although they completely changed that.

    Luke being Vader's heir would have surely meant some Imperials would have sought him out to ensure a peaceful transition?

    I hope JJ has a long term sequel plan for Luke and the story?

    We still don't know, Luke may have had a family, and may still have one. I believe that is what Lucas intended. Hopefully what they are carrying out. And we may see this in Episode IX , fingers crossed!

    Imagine this in Episode 7 or 8, Luke telling someone (possibly even Rey over a fire)

    I came here to find the secrets of the Jedi. Of the Force itself. Whilst I was away, they came for them. Those who didn't turn, they killed. I should never have left....but whatever I do causes pain to those around me...

    Master Skywalker, you have to come back. The galaxy needs the Jedi!

    Leia and Han once thought like you did. You don't know the power of the Supreme Leader. What he was able to achieve. Not even his former apprentice, with all his power, and his Empire could achieve that. You think that one Jedi can defeat that? They'll come after everything you have, everyone you care about, as they did with me. No one should have died [pain in Luke's eye's] because of that. I made sure that those I care about most, will never die or be associated with me...


    I was told that you could help us. And help me. You were the myth that kept us going. I never had a family. All I remember is that they left me. You still have one. You could still go back to them.

    Are you really ready to do whatever it takes to defeat them? Because once you do, you won't be a Jedi any longer...

    What do you mean?

    Once I had a wife, my great love. She was taken from me. I found her by the Temple, itself in flames. Like you, I was forced to learn that there are those without decency that must be fought without hesitation, without mercy. But I must do that alone.


    Maybe. Hopefully Luke gets revealed to have hidden Rey on Jakku, suppressed her memories to protect her identity and keep her safe. Her mother hopefully is an Imperial like Iden, who died trying to protect the Temple in his absence. Her family will eventually come to to the rescue of Leia and the Rebellion. They will be the left over Empire on Coruscant.

    Maybe Rey is powerful as Luke's offspring.

    The Force is strong in my family. I have it. My sister has it. You have that power too.

    Those words, maybe she will remember as she remembered or saw other things upon touching her family heirloom/lightsaber.

    Perhaps Luke has believed her to be gone so long, he did not recognise her.

    Well just a theory or hope at this point.

    Long live Luke Skywalker!

    I liked Luke's standoff against the army. Wish he also did that little finger wave like in ROTJ though.

    Or else maybe Luke did go back after Endor and picked up a power convertor...


    Jaina Reyla Skywalker perhaps. Memories suppressed. Left to protect her from those hunting for Skywalkers?

    Whoops not sure how my post double posted or repeated??
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  24. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    Not using treatments =/= throwing out his ideas. Didn’t JJ exec produce TLJ?

    I think RJ found Kylo fascinating. I don’t think he found him to be particularly lovable, though.

    I think TLJ made very clear that Luke’s returning in Ep 9. I wouldn’t be surprised if parts of Ep 9 were filmed in tandem with TLJ. Just my spec, though.
     
  25. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    I don't think that TLJ made it clear that Luke's returning. RJ even said in an interview that the focus needed to be on the new cast moving forward. Even in the age of force ghosts, death has meaning, and they killed Luke imo not to give him a central role. At best RJ foresaw a cameo in IX imo.