ST Mark Hamill (Luke Skywalker) in the ST

A new order of Jedi knights would presumably be an obvious threat to Snoke's ambitions. Since TFA portrayed Snoke as zealously pre-occupied with keeping Luke from doing that very thing, it would seem to be almost a given that this was also what provoked Snoke to get Ben Solo to betray his uncle.

 

yes but Luke wasn't restarting the Jedi order according to the passage. There's more from the passage that wasn't quoted. It was that after Snoke began messing with Ben this drove Leia to send him to Luke, who then restarted the Jedi order, and that too was what Snoke wanted, IIRC. I think that took Luke *off* the path that had been endangering "the design."

Of course, by the time of TFA, the last thing in the universe Snoke wants is for Luke to restart the Jedi, so it's now a threat whereas before it wasn't.

 

Did you read the entire excerpt? He “confused Skywalker’s path, ensnared his family, and harnessed Ben Solo’s powers to ensure both Skywalker’s destruction and Snoke’s triumph.” That’s major by definition.

Luke spoke as if there had been “balance” for many years, and nothinghappened until that bedside scene to contribute to Luke’s broken state. The novel excerpt proves that to be untrue.

I don’t understand the insistance that Luke was fully explained in the TLJ movie when he obviously (as per thr novel) wasn’t. And the insistence that there isn’t even a reasonable possibility that information is being withheld strikes me as flat-out bizarre.

 

Seems like betrayal by a Skwyalker was Snoke's best hope of any possible new Skywalker order being stillborn. Luke was obviously not meant to survive this either.

It would have made support within the Republic for a new order of Jedi not particularly attractive if Luke's efforts were seen to have created another Vader.

To be honest. It doesn't seem to alter what has been presented in the films. Luke indicates that the ostensibly good idea of having new Jedi knights was flawed due to "hubris". Luke may be unnecessarily harsh on himself but there is truth in that the order being reborn in reaction to something was not the wisest choice. If the underlying motive is, at least in part, fear, then it was inevitably going to be problematic.

 

@JoJoPenelli Corrupting Ben so that Leia sent him to Luke to fix, confused Luke's path and ensnared his family, to ensure Luke's destruction.

It's not insistence it's all explained (though as far as this trilogy goes Luke's history might be since Luke's history isn't the point of the trilogy and IX was going to be Leia's movie). I think there is more backstory lying in wait, but I don't see this idea that it's hinting at some earlier tragedy other than what the passage is about: how Snoke used Ben to ensnare Luke's family and destroy Luke. This is incredibly dramatic all in its own.

 

The passage is not about *how* Snoke did anything, just - generally speaking - what he did and why.

He “confused Luke’s path” - in what way?

He “harnessed Ben Solo’s powers” - how? That indicates Snoke actually used Ben to do something, not simply corrupted him. Surely it can’t be the bedside scene because that was caused by Luke’s actions.

He “ensnare Luke’s family” - who? How? Not Ben, as Ben is mentioned seperately in the list. Leia? Han? Someone else? We didn’t hear anything about that.

None of the above describe “corrupted Ben Solo, which made Leia send Ben to Luke, and Luke’s own mistake resulted in the destruction of the temple.” It doesn’t match up. At all.

Unless one wishes to claim that despite this, Luke was 100% (as is implied by Luke’s account of events) at the time the bedside incident occured, that was a factor in breaking Luke.

That is my point - that the movie does not tell us the full story of why Luke ended up so broken. And if it’s not the full story, then - as a necessary consequence - one can’t fully understand Luke’s state just by watching the movie.

That is all I’m arguing. I would appreciate others not acting like I’m arguing something I’m not.

(It’s a bit like arguing Rey/Kylo - just because one doesn’t believe in Reylo doesn’t mean ond must deny that Rey and Kylo have a powerful - or even emotionally intimate - connection, or that Kylo is one of the primary leads. Likewise, agreeing that TLJ - deliberately - did not provide a full explanation for broken!Luke =/= believing Reysky is true or even has any merit.)

 

I haven't finished the novel yet, but a passage that stuck out to me was a section that Leia is remembering Ben via different stages in his life; in it, it states that Ben was taken by Snoke. I can't remember the term that was used, but I assumed that he was kidnapped at a youngish age (teenager) and after that they sent him to Luke, which leaves several questions:
Was he kidnapped or was he neglected and ended up with Snoke?
If kidnapped, does Kylo suffer from Stockholm Syndrome?
Was he rescued and if so, by who?
If he wasn't rescued, did he escape?
Did Snoke let him go in the hopes that they would send him to Luke?

If Snoke is into kidnapping kids, did he kidnap Rey at some point, if he did, did Snoke leave her in Jakku with drunks and if so, who are her reals parents. Good times.

 

The passage speaks for itself. Luke's path was not to restart the Jedi, but once Leia brought Ben to him, it became that. Thus Luke's path was confused.

It says how he ensnared Luke's family, by preying upon Ben's and Leia's feelings.

Harnessing Ben's powers--Ben started becoming angry and resentful and destroying things with his powers, prompting Leia to reach out to Luke for help. His powers are later Snoke's tool to destroy Luke's Jedi and temple, leaving Luke a broken man.

Pretty much all you need to understand the passage is in the passage itself.

 

The bolded are some of the things I'm conflicted about. I liked how Luke was in most parts. I liked that he was reluctant and didn't have an easy relationship with Rey. I thought it was interesting. But the resolution felt...hollow? Unsatisfactory? Luke and Rey's last encounter was terrible. She struck him from behind, raised a lightsaber over him and left after one lesson. But he basically declares her the last Jedi without resolving their issue or acknowledging she was out of line or even a training. But she's the only one who might fit the job, I guess. I know he might come black as a FG but it doesn't have the same power to me as dealing with a living person.

Same way his projection doesn't seem as powerful, to me, as if he was there in person. Not as powerful as Luke leaving the island and live to rebuild himself. So, instead its a story of a man who isolated himself and wanted die ...and effectively died isolated. But its okay because its for the greater good.
Part me gets that it can be seen as a great ending but part me thinks Luke Skywalker deserved so much better than ending like this. At only 53 on top of that.

 

Honestly, you should try to pick up the newest issue and read the article. It made a lot of good points about Joseph Campbell's work and mythic archetypes that really does give perspective to Luke's role in this new trilogy.

 

Are you sure about this? I haven't read the book, but I'd think lots of people would have been talking about this.

If it is true, I think your Snoke-kidnapping-Rey suggestion is still quite unlikely.

All of that said, if true, that's really juicy.

 

I’ll double check when I get home. I’m 95% sure. But I am wrong most of the time

 

I like these odds

 

I think some people think that Kylo was taken by Snoke because Leia thinks that Snoke and Luke took away Ben from her. Not sure that he literally kidnapped him. I think Snoke just had access to kid!Ben.

 

This is starting to feel like post-TPM or post-AOTC speculation all over again, when we wrung our hands thinking there just HAD TO BE more to Sidious than Palpatine in a black robe, or to the Clone Army being created on the command of someone we'd never heard of before.

Turns out there wasn't. I think this is going to turn out the same way. I don't know that we'll even hear the name Snoke mentioned in IX, and I am even more doubtful Ben's turn will be shown in any more depth -- unless JJ attempts to recon what RJ did with that.

I think the questions of how exactly Snoke got to Ben and why Ben exactly was sent to Luke -- apart from the vagueness we've already gotten -- are going to be left to novels and comics, if ever. They can't 'let the past die' and focus on it any more than they already have.

What a weird series of decisions and films.

 

When i went to watch TLJ, i was a little bit scared to find a limitless powerful Luke, jumping, running, just like the latest Indiana Jones where everything looked so forced.

TLJ was a nice surprise with a fresh take on the Jedi máster and a truely inspired acting performance from MH. I understand the disapointment for some fans but I am too happy about the depiction of my very first movie hero. I just hope he will be back for Episode IX.

 

I am pretty sure I was wrong, here is the passage:

“Ben, her son. who’d been stolen from her and Han, stolen by Snoke’s wiles and Luke’s mistake and his own furies.

 

Yeah - that feels like more or a metaphorical stealing rather than a literal kidnapping.

 

Luke...is...a FURRY NOW?

Just watch--Lando's gonna show up in IX, he'll look like the suave old player we fully expect until he gets up from the card table and we see that he's sporting a Utilikilt.

Fans will be super excited to learn that Wedge is back until they see him constantly trying to steer conversations toward how he feels 25 again after switching to a plant-based diet.

Darth Plagueis is finally revealed! He's been secretly running things from the shadows the whole time--the Empire, the FO, all of it. He wields an ancient purple lightsaber. His cape utilizes mysterious technology. He's really, really into scrapbooking.

IG-88 is back, and he's pursuing our heroes. He has countless agents in the field who track their movements. He won't stop until he comes face-to-face with Rey and informs her that, in their deaths, her parents saddled her with an unpaid bar tab and that there are a few different payment options available.

 

I think GL said to Mark Hamill - what you doing in 2011 I want you to cameo in EP9 - passing the torch to the next generation in another plain of existence so a very long time ago GL had the idea of force ghost Luke but I suppose GL never thought Luke would cameo in EP7 so Luke ending up in a cameo in both EP7 & EP9......

 

I don't remember this getting posted so I thought I'd share it even though it's a month old:


For context, Lauren Hissrich is the showrunner/producer for the upcoming Netflix series based on the Witcher series of fantasy novels and rpg video games. She's currently in the process of writing out the script and frequently posts about her work on twitter. Vesemir is a witcher (a kind of monastic order of professional monster slayers) who is a mentor to the series' two main protagonists Geralt and Ciri. It sounds like Mark was just being playful as usual but who knows! I think he would be an excellent choice for the roll.

From left to right: Ciri, Geralt, Vesemir

 

Wow how did I miss that they are making Witcher for Netflix? Mark as Vesemir? I can see it!

 

That sounds great. Are you able to take some photos with your phone and post at some point in the future?

 

I likely won't scan the entire article, but I could post a snapshot/screencap if you want...

 

That would be awesome, thanks!

Btw, if anyone is interested in reading Campbell, I highly rec “Thou Art That,” about religious symbolism. I strongly suspect that at least one person involved in shaping the ST has read that book....