ST Mark Hamill (Luke Skywalker) in the ST

I agree with that, though I don’t think Luke gave up. I think his exile was out of the notion that if he remained involved and trained Jedi it would ensure dark side forces would continue to rise up. He believed that by removing himself, he was helping and was being selfless. He was continuing, at least as he thought, to put the Galaxy before his own interests.

 

yes, i think we can say both... technically he gave up the fight, but yes, we can say that it was for the better of the galaxy

 

What? The movie clearly makes the point that removing himself he made the wrong call.

 

Yes, but youre arguing what Luke came to realize after talking with Yoda defines his motivations for going into exhile in the first place. He thought he was doing the right thing. He was being selfless even if misguided. He realized that and helped in the end.

 

I guess where we differ is the logic in thinking completely removing himself making any sense. Its not as if he had to act as a Jedi if he thought that was an issue. He could have helped in any number of ways. Thats something else. If he thought the Jedi shoukd end, why not just stop being a Jedi? There's lots of other occupations to choose from.

 

Sigh. No. Banned.

 

ok, even if you are just trolling, i will answer anyway.
first Gif... i do not see where has it been said in the older movies that Luke would never do that.
second Gif... Luke was raised as a farmer, and he was seen drinking blue milk...
third Gif... first this is what Kylo tells Rey, either he is lying, or he just remembers things that way (don't forget that he was asleep a second before, so he was not really in a position of judging things properly)... and secondly, i just explained why Luke was tempted to kill his nephew.... so even if that lightsaber strike had happen (it didn't) it wouldn't contradict my analysis.

 

I think that’s a different argument and I’ve been critical of the overall use of Luke. It appears it was Lucas, Arndt, etc who created the idea of an exhile Luke, not RJ, though.

However, Luke wasn’t being a coward as some have suggested and there was a reason in line with who we knew him to be that they tried to explain his exhile. We don’t have to like the storytelling. I get it.

 

Darth Smurf, the thing is that you are mistaking things you didn't want to see Luke doing and things that the established Luke would never do...
Let's take your second Gif.... Luke milking a space cow and drinking her milk... it's something you didn't want to see... just like i would not want to see Luke in the toilets, taking a dump... but to be honest, even if i would have foud this gross, it would not be out of character for Luke to take a dump sometimes... unless it has been established somewhere in the canon that Luke is above things like that...

 

I'm sure the trillions on Hosnian Prime and Han himself would not agree. Luke can't face Han and Leia after failing but he can leave them to face their murderous son alone.

They were moisture farmers, they weren't raising banthas (where blue milk comes from). Not all farmers have cows. Lots of them raise corn, wheat, etc.

Well, honestly, we don't know. All we have is a stack of narrators telling us "how we got to TFA/TLJ" and conveniently, when people complained about exile Luke, here comes Lucasfilm saying "well, that was in Lucas's treatments!" When RJ himself did the whole "cut himself off from the Force" and Abrams and Kasdan came up with how long. The point is, we don't know anything. I noticed that Rinzler wasn't allowed to write a Making of TFA because I'm sure it's a doozy of a tale.

 

to be honest, even if we say he was a coward... cowardice happens... to everybody... it's a flaw... it's not like the movie suggested that Luke was always a coward... at best he had a big cowardly moment in a particularely stressful situation, and he ran away.... to me it would not hurt what i think about Luke.
Heroes are heroes because they always end overcoming their worst instincts, not because they have no bad instincts.

 

So? Luke has got to eat and drink on this island, and it doesn't look like there is a restaurant there... yes you didn't want to see it... but i don't see how it's a character assassination... and, he was a farmer, maybe not that kind of faming, but he was raised in a farm, and he used to drink milk... he does what anybody (unless vegan) would do in the same situation... he feeds of what he can find... i don't see the problem...
it's just that YOU didn't want to see it....

 

No, I didn't. Just like I didn't want to see Han turned into a comedy act, in debt to two gangs when that wasn't who he was in the OT either. But saying because he's a farmer, he milks cows isn't accurate either. That's my point. I've seen that over and over. It's like Han talking to him about dusting crops - when Luke didn't do that either. But that's Han's conception of a farmer. Then I see people saying "oh, Luke farmed, so he milks things." No, he doesn't. And there seemed to be plenty of fish, so why did he milk the sea cow again? He did it because it's a cheap gag to show how low he's fallen.

 

Cowardice has never been a flaw Luke has exhibited, hes always shown the opposite Particularly when those he cares about are concerned. Flaws fine, but dont give him a flaw that completely contradicts his previous characterization.

 

They were just trying to show how simple of a life he was leading. He spear fished from cliffs, got milk from live stock. No big deal IMHO.

 

To this day

 

Nobody said he was that exact kind of farmer... what we mean when we say he was a farmer, is that he is used to get his hands dirty because he grew up in a farm... for exemple, i did not grow up in a farme and i am used to buy my food... so if all of a sudden you saw me miling a cow, it would be out of my character... (but to be honest if i was stranded on an island like Luke, i would probably do it anyway).. but for Luke it's consistent to what we knew about him.
So NO it was not out of character. It being a cheap gag to show how low he's fallen, it's not at all the same thing that being out of character. Anyway i don't think it was either to show how low he had fallen, but it's not very far. That sequence was only so we can see Rey being disappointed with the legend (a bit like Luke with Yoda in the Empire Strikes Back)

 

I don't like seeing simple, humble living turned into a comedy act or a joke and I find it a bit a unfortunate that the ST does that a lot (the other victim of this being Finn the Janitor). With Luke in particular, I think the whole act stemmed from the issue of RJ viewing it as grotesque and intentionally picturing the milking of the creature and the drinking of it as grotesque, to cause a reaction on Rey and the audience.

 

Like in ESB with Yoda on Dagobah?

 

Yoda's comedic act was deliberate on his side to test Luke.
But his living style wasn't framed as something to make fun about or something grotesque.

 

It was comedic for the audience too, purposefully. Before and after we realised that it was great Jedi Master who lived in a slimy mudhole and served bowls of rustic, revolting food.

 

Yeah... I think you are exagerating to try to make a comparison I don't see. Yoda was putting a comedic act to test Luke, act which he dropped when he got serious.

His living style was not revolting or gross, or at least I never felt that way. His house was pretty nice and cute. Luke did not like the food at first, but some spice on it, and then ate it normally. Though, Yoda also didn't like Luke's food either.

 

It's no exaggeration that Yoda's lifestyle, and Luke's reaction to it, was meant to amuse the audience. It's a fact.

 

Yeah. “Amuse.” Not expressly gross-out.

 

Some people might feel they were being expressly grossed out by Luke's lifestyle. I imagine.

I wasn't. I just felt it was showing something that might subvert someone's expectations of the way of life a legend and sought after hero of the rebellion like Luke might lead.

Those who have seen Yoda's introduction in ESB know that how Luke subsists in his solitude is neither here nor there.

For Rey it's another challenge to her preconceptions of what she'd find there.

If that's how some of the audience feel too, great.

It's certainly not gratuitous by any means.