Marriage between Jedis and the dark side of the force

Hi everyone

I just have a question regarding love/marriage between Jedis, and I have a few

In PT as well as in KOTOR, love between and by Jedis are looked down upon by the Jedi council, and will always lead to the dark side of the force

However, in EU, Corran Horn marries Mirax Terrik, and Luke and Mara marries. And NO one ever says to them: wait a minute, you can't do this. This could lead to the dark side.

Would someone be willing to clear it up?

 

Luke Skywalker changed the rules, basically. He wasn't going to stop new Jedi from marrying when he was married, too.

 

I guess the only logical answer is that Luke changed the rules. Unless it was something that got overlooked by people who wrote the books, but that's probably unlikely.

 

Well in Jedi Trial or whatever that was called again man I can't believe I can't remember the exact title...

With Anakin in it...there is a Jedi that IS married. So that was prior to Luke's time. Soooo kind'a makes me wonder

 

Yep, it was Jedi Trial - Nejaa Halcyon (Corran Horn's grandfather) was secretly married.

Back in the late 80's - early 90's when the EU was first being written, very little was known about Old Republic Jedi. I don't think the authors were given specific instructions about marriage among Jedi. Luke, as he was written back then, may simply not have known that Jedi weren't permitted to be married as per the Old Republic 'rules.' Then again, I seem to recall a conversation between Luke and Corran in I, Jedi where they talk about his grandfather's marriage and write it off to the fact that 'he was Corellian.'

As far as Corran is concerned, he was already married to Mirax before he started training to become a Jedi.

Now that the prequels are in the picture, the authors are having to find ways to explain some of the earlier EU. There's a really good section of chapter 2 in Survivor's Quest where Luke thinks about the Old Republic Jedi laws against marriage versus his marriage to Mara, the gist of it being:

Could Yoda have been wrong about how Jedi relationships were supposed to work? That was the easiest answer. But that would mean the entire Jedi Order had been wrong about it. That didn't seem likely, unless on some level all of them had lost the ability to hear the Force clearly.

Could that particular dictum have ended with the fall of that particular group, then? Yoda had also said something about the Force having been brought back into balance, though he'd been somewhat vague about the details. Could this have rendered that part of the Jedi Code no longer applicable?

He didn't have the answers. He wondered if he ever would.

-Survivor's Quest, pgs 16-17 (hardcover)


[EDIT] I just re-read your question and, now that I think about it, it wasn't so much that marriage was forbidden, as much as it was attachment. Jedi had intimate relationships and some of them even had children, but they couldn't make a lifetime commitment because they believed that attachment led to greed which led to fear which led to the dark side. Hope that helps!

 

Well Corrilian jedi did marry more then other Jedi. Any other Jedi that did marry probably kept it secret. I mean look at Qui-Gon and Tahl, i'm sure they would have married in secret if they had gotten the chance.
Even if it's forbidden for Jedi to marry there is always a few who will even though its frowned upon.
With the Corellian Jedi i think the couincil t6urned a blind eye to them marrying while any other Jedi would get into trouble. Another thing with Corellian Jedi is the fact that they stay closer to Corellia then Coruscant, so i guess that makes a difference in a way.
So Corran getting married is not a surprise. Luke was never told (as far as i know) that Jedi were not supposed to marry. Plus the fact that he had to rebuild the whole Jedi order which made it poossible for him to change that part of the code even if he did know it.

 

Thanks for everyone who answered.

 

In addition, certain Jedi, if they had cultural commitments, could get married (and even, I think, attached), such as Ki-Adi Mundi. His species has a very large ratio of females to males, so he was allowed to take several wives.

 

I think that quite a few broke that rule. Some, like Anakin, hid it, others, most likely Corellians included, simply told the party poopers on Coruscant what they could do with themselves if they raised a ruckus in the tuckus. And I think Luke purposefully ditched the 'Jedi Can't Get Hitched' rule as a tactical decision. It is very difficult to attract recruits for a celibate order. And Force-Sensitive children would be a plus. It was not the only Old Republic Jedi Order rule he ditched: he ditched the one-master-one-apprentice rule and several other ones I can't think of off the top of my head to allow for a quick rebuild.

 

Luke changered rules the bastered! Sorry That just kinded gets under my skin. and Yoda never said anything about be close to some one you love. Luke was so post to lrean that lession when he was tranning with Yoda and had the vision of Han and Leia in pain. Yoda told him that always emotion is the further. What he ment was your thoughts affect what further you see in the Force.

 

I'm sick, so this might come out in a bit of an incoherent fashion, but here goes.

What's to say that Luke even knew about the no attachment/marriage/love/whatever you want to call it? We are given the impression that so much Jedi knowledge was lost when the Emperor took over; after all, Luke does spend a lot of time running around the galaxy looking for new recruits and information about the Jedi.

In addition, since Corellian Jedi rarely strayed from their system, they seem to have their own set of rules and traditions. Corellian Jedi married, and occasionally took their children as apprentices (Nejaa Halcyon took his son Valin Halcyon- later to become Hal Horn- as his apprentice).

LJS

 

I think this rule may also be species-specific. Who's to say that a human's perception of love and marriage is the same as a Gungan's or a Twi'leck's? Ki-Adi-Mundi is a great example. He had multiple wives and still served on the Council. I think a large part of the no-marriage policy was that, as Jedi, they wouldn't make good spouses to begin with, what with their "lack of emotion", constant meditation, being sent away on missions for extended periods of time...

As I recall, Han had trouble dealing with his jealousy over Leia and Luke's Jedi bond, and felt sadness that he could never know his children as intimately as Leia knew them through the Force (this is taken from Zahn's EU trilogy).

Again, this may be a problem experienced by only certain species (most notably humans), and with most of the Jedi Order consisting of humans and humanoids, a broad no-marriage policy may well have been the smartest move. But rigid adherence to such a policy is what, IMHO, got the Order in such deep trouble pre-Empire.

 

From what I've read and seen over the past 28 years of Star Wars, Lucas have never said that Jedi couldn't marry. In fact, he is on record at least once saying they aren't celibate. Of course, he could have changed his mind by now, but I haven't seen anything contrary to that statement.

Relationships aren't the forbidden thing. Attachment is...the fear of losing something or someone. This is why there's such an emphasis on "letting go" and training yourself to do so. Padme's belief that marriage was forbidden was an outsider's misconception, I think.

Most Jedi didn't marry because as anyone knows, its very, very hard to let go of someone you love...and that often leads to jealousy, anger, hate, etc, just as Yoda says. So more than forbidden, its more in the vein of being frowned upon, or viewed with a great deal of caution.

Just my two cents' worth

 

So, can Masters marry, and padawans can't? Because I thought Anakin would be kicked out of the Order if his secret was made public.

 

I think that it is allowed, but is greatly frowned apon for the reasons that Luke_Linwalker said earlier.

 

I think everyone can, and Anakin would be kicked out IF he jeperadized the mission by his attatchment to Padme and if thye let Dooku go and returned to save her, but that is just my opinion.

 

From what I've read and seen over the past 28 years of Star Wars, Lucas have never said that Jedi couldn't marry. In fact, he is on record at least once saying they aren't celibate.


Marriage and celibacy are two different things. Never has it been said that the Jedi couldn't have sex if they so chose. But, when the Code forbids attachment and possession, one would assume that tenant would preclude marriage. Being married involves a certain amount of both.

Corellian Jedi were different for whatever reason. They were frowned upon for their unorthodox methods and varied views on the Jedi Code.


As for why Corran and Luke were married, the easy answer is that Luke simply changed the rules. However, I don't recall anyone ever telling Luke that the Jedi of the Old Republic were not allowed to marry. Perhaps he didn't know.

 

In the Episode III novelization, I think Padme and Anakin have a conversation where she argues that their marriage must stay a secret, Anakin says he's tired of hiding, and Padme says the Jedi need him too much for him to be thrown out now. Anakin, of course, agrees, but this would indicate that marriage is strictly off-limits for Knights, at least. Or maybe he risks being tossed out because he kept it a secret in the first place.

I think the It's Really Not a Good Idea to Get Married theory works, and it certainly fits G-canon, but these tidbits are throwing me off.

 

Ki-Adi in the EU is a Knight on the Council and married with children (see this page at the sw.com site)... however, in ROTS Anakin is furious about not being made a master as well as being put on the council and he says something to the effect of "never in the history of the Jedi has someone been put on the council and NOT made a master." (not an exact quote but that's pretty much what he says).

*sigh* This is why I have such trouble with EU, there is not nearly enough adherence to it in the film, only partial, and that makes it really difficult (for me anyway) to think of them as the true background to the films. (which is, I suppose, a big reason why we write fan fic )

Anyway, I am curious, is there any EU background for why "attachment" is forbidden? Like a particular incident or incidents that caused the Jedi Council to decide that was a definite no-no?

sg

 

JediMaster_Jen you're right, marriage and celibacy aren't the same thing. By the same token, not allowing marriage, but allowing sexual relations is, in strictest definition, condoning adultery (the practice of sexual relations outside of wedlock), and for a semi-religious institution this would be rather anti-thetical, as well as considered immoral, don't you think?

This would make it "okay" for Jedi to carouse, pick up partners of the opposite sex at bars, etc and take them home, do their thing, and never see each other again, or continue a relationship considered dishonorable by society at large.

No, Luke was never told they didn't marry. It was rather a moot point by that time, I'd imagine.

Catholic priests aren't celibate, to my understanding. They have wives, and often children. They DON'T go out girl hunting or to brothels though. Its all a matter of interpretation, ultimately, but would it honestly make sense for Jedi to be sexually active, but NOT able to marry, based on what's established for the Jedi Order as a whole, as regards policy and belief?

Again, just opinions, worth less than the paper they're not written on.

 

Jedi_Linewalker I agree with you. Allowing sexual relations and not marriage is essentially condoning adultery. But, little Jedi have to come from somewhere. It's naive to believe that every single Jedi was conceived by non-Jedi parents.


I think GL sort of dropped the ball on this issue. His statement that Jedi weren't celibate but that they were forbidden from marrying sends a bad message.

 

IIRC, before AOTC or something, marriage wasn't forbidden, it wasn't even thought of. I actually think it was an EU author who created the whole Jedi can't marry thing. Personally I hate it. That little plot in the PT screwed it all up, Anakin could've turned for some other reason. This way Lucas just made it into a fanwench's fanfic.

Anyways, it wasn't expressly forbidden, more just frowned upon. And I don't believe Luke knew about the whole no marriage thing. And not all marriages with Jedi led to the darkside. Just Anakin's actually if you asked me I'd think it wouldn't lead to the darkside, because it would give the Jedi a reason not to turn, because they wouldn't want to end up hurting their family. Or make them suffer through the pain of them being darksiders. Anakin was just messed up.

 

From henceforth, Jedi are allowed to marry and get it on with whomever they choose.


I have spoken.

 

From henceforth, Jedi are allowed to marry and get it on with whomever they choose.


I have spoken.



Sounds good to me.

 

*bows and salutes the oldbie* The ancient one hath spoken! And so it shall be!