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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph Marvel's Cloak & Dagger [Freeform Series]

Discussion in 'Community' started by The2ndQuest , Apr 7, 2016.

  1. Sith_Sensei__Prime

    Sith_Sensei__Prime Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 22, 2000
    It starts tonight, but I won't be able to watch it until the weekend. So, I've set my DVR to record the premiere episode.
     
  2. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Watched both episodes. It's actually much better than I expected, but I didn't really have high expectations for it.

    On the serious plus side is that it doesn't look or feel like a teen drama like a CW series or anything. There's actually some complexity and beauty at play. Only the constant soundtrack might suggest any specific target demo ambitions.

    It's not as gritty as a Defenders series but it doesn't share the primary tone of the MCU movies/AOS/AC, either. It's more... I dunno, trance-like? It keeps the pace a little slower but seems to add weight to the quiet moments (though so often paired with the soundtrack, so perhaps it's the music selections that give it that trancier vibe).

    I wouldn't say it's blown me away but it's different enough to keep my interest- and I can see why the show wouldn't translate well to a trailer form.

    Continuity-wise, no MCU connections yet- other than the presence of Roxxon, which we've known about forever. No dates on the newspaper clippings, either.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
  3. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

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    Nov 12, 2012
    I liked this, it did lean hard into teenage angst, and it felt more like a Netflix Marvel or Runaways than mainline MCU / ABC, but it's actually really well made. Wayyyyy slow though but that isn't unbearable, it's more into the characters heads than the superheroes. I would give Runaways an advantage if only because Runways isn't just teen angst, there is a ridiculous amount of different plots in any given Runaways ep. This is more about how these powers are getting up into their heads. And the moments when they use their powers are actually pretty great, I'm thinking of when Tandy uses her first light dagger to take a threatening goon out its really weird.

    I'm not sure how accurate this is to their comic origins, poor Cloak and Dagger had a bunch of origin retcons and they were mutants at one point I think, but I do remember they were experimented on as homeless teens so that's kinda there, sorta. But even their first meeting as kids did have some dramatic payoff as they meet again years later. I guess I'm supposed to sympathize with Tandy's boyfriend but that was mostly in episode 2 cuz in episode 1 he came off as kind of a d-bag so I don't really care for him at all.

    As for the MCU, all we got is Roxxon and Jeph Loeb said that all of the TV shows are set before the Snapture. But personally I kind of view it the same way I do Runaways or any MCU show, they have superpowers but nobody is going full on mental crazy crazy because they know that superpowers and heroes exist in the world so while they freak out, it's not something they can't comprehend.
     
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  4. Sith_Sensei__Prime

    Sith_Sensei__Prime Chosen One star 6

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    May 22, 2000
    Yeah, I thought the first two episodes were better than expected, but it's definitely geared to young adults/high schoolers; especially with the scene where all the students are texting each other in church during the priest's homily.

    And it's definitely a slow burn as both the lead characters are just being introduced to their powers and don't have any idea how they got them or how to control them. And their eventual team up seems like it will happen further down the road when they discover they have a common interest/enemy from their pasts. Tandy's story line reminds me of Netflix's Jessica Jones, where she once had a much better life and then a car accident happens and her world came crashing down. Tyrone's storyline is something out of today's headlines with his brother being gunned down by a police officer and no one held responsible for it, and thus weighs on Ty. And between the two, Tandy has the more intriguing story line because of life as a con artist and nearly killing that guy that tried to rape her, which is leading her to wanting to flee.

    As for Cloak and Dagger connecting to the larger Marvel Universe...

    Agent Carter’s Final Season Actually Set Up Cloak & Dagger
     
  5. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Ooh, that's a good connection. I hadn't thought about Roxxon's earlier dealings (my initial thought was focused on the rig explosion and wondering if it tied to the IM3 ship graveyard/oil spill incident, but it did not).
     
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  6. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

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    Nov 12, 2012
    I'm wondering how both Tyrone and Tandy will their Cloak and Dagger outfits. Hopefully by the end of episode 5!
     
  7. Sith_Sensei__Prime

    Sith_Sensei__Prime Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 22, 2000
    The episode three of season one, played out like an episode of Legion with all there types of dream sequences to provide more backstory. However, the story telling here is more easy to follow.

    I thought it was interesting that of scene where young Tandy is offering communion to what appeared to men that perhaps inflected some type of pain on her, to the last in line was her current boyfriend. Also was interesting was the boardroom meeting with Tandy's dad being seatbelted to a chair. And then you have Ty's backstory and written checks to Ty.

    It would appear that Ty gets his cloak in the next episode. Tandy might have already wore her outfit, as the dress she wore to the ballet and the dress she borrowed from the cleaners to the wedding might be a precursor to her outfit as either one of those could be modified into her costume.
     
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  8. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    I don't think the communion was people who inflicted pain on her, but rather people she had hurt. I think it implies it's one reason she always runs away.

    I wonder if the checks are connected to his family? ie: one of the reasons they're so well-off, can afford a private school, that their mom gets well-connected, etc.

    Also, they seemed to be going for a scientist namedrop there but left it as a tease.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018
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  9. Sith_Sensei__Prime

    Sith_Sensei__Prime Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 22, 2000
    Okay, five episodes in and still no understanding of their powers by Tandy and Tyrone. Which is becoming frustrating. However, the characters and the story telling has been done pretty well. Tandy still remains the more interesting of the two characters, especially with the last episode of Tandy discovering she has the ability to see into people's true hopes; whereas Tyrone discovered he has the ability to see people's worse fears an episode ago. Additionally, Tandy's relationship between her mom and her mom's boyfriend was getting better. Tyrone's story is getting better, with learning some things about his family and moving his own narrative forward.

    The "villain(s)" are very slowly being fleshed out, which is also becoming a little frustrating.

    I'm a bit confused by the explosion when Tandy and Tyrone touch, but Tyrone mentioned it was pretty cool.
     
  10. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

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    Nov 12, 2012
    It was nice to see Tandy and Tyrone actually spend an episode together, mostly, instead of just running away and screaming at each other. Even though the episode ended with them running away and screaming at each other. :/ that'll probably last a week. But the shockingly good guy mom's boyfriend getting done capped in the head was really unexpected. And Tandy's attempted suicide / freeing herself was actually legit great/shocking. Tonally this show is definitely more in the Netflix / Hulu wheelhouse than the ABC stuff, (which, if you think about it, TeeVee MCU actually officially outnumbers now) although I am always wanting more solid MCU connections anytime they can get them in.

    Also I'm glad Tandy wrote off her "partner" as not even a boyfriend, that dude was a jerk.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  11. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    It's been that way for awhile, though. There have only been three ABC shows. That number was surpassed by Netflix before they even got to Defenders.
     
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  12. Sith_Sensei__Prime

    Sith_Sensei__Prime Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 22, 2000
    Well, there's a link between Luke Cage and Cloak and Dagger, which the connection was referenced more in last episode.

    'Cloak & Dagger' Confirms Major Connection to 'Luke Cage'

    As far as the latest episode, I feel Tandy is driving the story forward with her investigation and more use of her powers, (like seeing into people's heads). And since I've never really the Cloak and Dagger comic books, I didn't know her dagger could cut through a safe like a hot knife through butter. Tyrone is still working things through, but still has yet to figure out how to use his power, but in the previous episode, he did find his cloak costume.

    Detective O'Reilly is emerging to be an interesting character based on this last episode because of things she's done.

    There's definitely an intrigue to the overall story that keeps me coming back to the series, which is Roxxon, as well as the development of the titled characters' power.
     
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  13. Sith_Sensei__Prime

    Sith_Sensei__Prime Chosen One star 6

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    May 22, 2000
    Cloak and Dagger was moving at a nice pace until the latest episode. I thought this last episode was a "filler" episode, but the next one might be a payoff episode.
     
  14. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    I was about to say the opposite- we're finally moving the plot along. Now, granted, I watched the last two episodes back to back so the individual details may have blurred together, but we have Tandy ID'ing who I assume will end up being the Big Bad, the reason why the rig that killed her father exploded (whatever burns hotter than oil under New Orleans) and someone who can provide more answers (once they unlock the mental vault being blocked by Darkforce). I kinda get the impression this last episode also suggests that there is a link between Voodoo, New Orleans and Darkforce (as well as whatever sources Tandy's powers- Lightforce?), thus the "divine pairing" and underground energy source.

    So some of the questions now are- what is underneath New Orleans? Is it Darkforce itself? We know from Agent Carter and AOS that Zero Matter was being researched as an energy source and that Isodyne was later purchased by Roxxon. The Hydra experiments involving Daniels/Blackout were probably around the same time too.

    Speaking of Divine Pairings and Blackout, there might be some thematic connections in that AOS episode. Look at these quotes from "The Only Light in the Darkness":

    Coulson: "Last time, we managed to capture him by overloading his system with pure light."

    Coulson: "He called her his only light in the darkness."

    Audrey: "He just stood there, saying I was his light."

    Daniels: "I'm sorry I scare you. I know that I'm a monster. But you're the one that can save me."

    I don't think it suggests Audrey had an actual connection to Daniels like Tandy does to Tyrone, but it would suggest that Daniels felt compelled to seek out "the light" in someone else who was supposed to- a divine pairing. His obsession with Audrey probably intertwined with that compulsion and confused him.

    Also, Daniels being overloaded with light might explain the reaction when Tandy and Tyrone's powers touch.
     
  15. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I really like Oliva Holt's performance on Cloak and Dagger but, holy hell, she needs to tone down the vocal fry about 5 notches
     
  16. Sith_Sensei__Prime

    Sith_Sensei__Prime Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 22, 2000
    I really enjoyed the latest episode, even though it had the Groundhog Day vibes as it helped the main characters move forward with their powers and mindset, especially Tandy.
     
  17. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Haven't watched this week's episode yet, but last week's (with the mind loop) actually felt the most Marvel or comicbook-like of any of the episodes they've done so far. But i like that it managed to not feel out of place, either, or abandon the focus on the main characters.
     
  18. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Season 2 announced!



    Apparently Mayhem's powers in the comics include releasing a corrosive, venomous gas that can dissolve bullets and light daggers, as well as be used as a truth serum. She supposedly can shift to a non-corporeal gaseous state too. Hard to say if all of that will carry over here, but being resistive to light daggers seems like a logical inclusion.
     
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  19. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

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    Apr 15, 2005
    i really like this show. That last episode though; some dark turns at the end.
     
  20. Sith_Sensei__Prime

    Sith_Sensei__Prime Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 22, 2000
    I really liked the last episode as Ty dawned the cloak and was able to control his powers. That was pretty awesome as he used it in a ghost like/haunting way. Moreover, the way the show is scripted the cloak has several meaningful elements to it. Additionally, Tandy has been shown to wrapped herself in a cloak of sorts throughout the season, which is nice foreshadowing. And speaking of Tandy, I like how she just started to through her created daggers as if it was second nature.

    However, I felt the last have of the episode was too happy Hollywood scripted ending for the most part, until they did the reverse "Women in Refrigerators" trope, which was very interesting and impressive to turn that trope on its head. I was delightfully excited to finally see that happen in a live action adaptation as they didn't spare any graphic imagery. Bravo!!! =D= It's one of the many reasons I find Cloak and Dagger worth watching. I'm looking forward to tonight's episode.
     
  21. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Latest episode wasn't bad but I kinda felt like it was more like filler towards the finale, other than Tandy being able to steal hopes with her powers now and the random valve outbreak. The whole literary hero deconstruction class narration seemed a little too on the nose and edging towards the 4th wall. Also featured what I believe to be an inappropriate use of a Rick and Morty reference, so flag on the play.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
  22. Sith_Sensei__Prime

    Sith_Sensei__Prime Chosen One star 6

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    May 22, 2000
    Ya know, I dug the hero deconstruction class narration, probably because it's true with pretty much MCU film that has come out.

    And looking at the previews for the season finale, I'm not sure if it will have a satisfying ending or have a cliff hanger for season two. I'm hoping for the former rather than the latter, as I want a payoff for season one.

     
  23. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

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    Nov 12, 2012
    Going with the "fight off the rampaging zombies horde" ending, eh? I really should have seen it coming cuz it was set up in the time loop episode (which was legit great). Tyrone using his cloak powers to get the guy to confess was great, very Batman Begins type of disappearing act, and I loved the subversion of it was inadmissible anyway. Although I kind of wish the bad cop had been drunk or stoned or something for him to buy it. And Tandy going full "I'm going to steal your hopes" was pretty dark but good performance. Also, hey, the priest actually came back after buying the booze bottle in, what, the pilot episode?

    Also best line of the series so far calling Tandy "Strangely aggressive tiny girl"

    Anyway, O'Rilley dropped a reference to she wasn't entirely spooked by Cloak's powers cuz she's from New York and had seen stuff and mentioned her friend Misty. I mentioned this in this thread and Runaways that one conceit I can buy izzat while people are surprised about having superpowers they aren't losing their freakin' minds because they live in the MCU with the Avengers and killer robots and alien invasions and stuff so O'Rilley's line sort of confirmed that for me. Also since she dropped a Luke Cage reference (and apparently in ep. 8 of Luke Cage Misty references her) we've got our first cross-network MCU reference from Netflix to Freeform.

    So hopefully we get that Runaways / Cloak and Dagger crossover (since Runaways has been the most MCU reference light show) so, with Netflix referencing the Avengers, we can complete the chain of custody from Runaways to Cloak and Dagger to Luke Cage to the Avengers!

    is Cloak and Dagger still without a Stan Lee cameo? Hopefully we get one in the finale!
     
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  24. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Stan Lee had a cameo of sorts in the last episode of C&D.

    [​IMG]

    Also, are you saying that Misty/O'Reilly reference is the first cross-network reference in general? Or the first one to specifically be between Netflix and Freeform? Because if you mean in general, AOS has referenced the Netflix stuff a couple times in minor ways and oblique comments on NF shows kinda connect to AOS as well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
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  25. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

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    Nov 12, 2012
    oh yah forgot about Netflix and ABC references but this is the first "this character on this network is buddies with the character on the other network" reference I think we've gotten. Maybe we can get a Misty vacation to New Orleans!
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018