Amph Marvel's Daredevil (Born Again, Again, Being Filmed Again)

BTW, according to the OP, no spoiler tags required after 1 April.

 

Good to know. I still believe the DD Netflix series is strongly influenced by the Frank Miller comics; IIRC, the first time the Punisher & DD met & fought in the comics was in the Miller issues, #183-184. Here's some links:

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Daredevil_Vol_1_183

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Daredevil_Vol_1_184

 

Absolutely, but that scene in particular is lifted from the Ennis run; volume 2 (after Welcome Back, Frank) if I remember correctly. A few pages ago, probably under spoiler tag, I posted the panels so you can see them. Same idea - DD is chained to a roof by Punisher, and given a revolver. Frank is going to shoot a mobster unless Daredevil shoots him.

 

OK - cool. Thanks for the post. I haven't read many of the Punisher comics from the '90's-on. I did enjoy the Punisher min-series from the '80's (with art by Mike Zeck).

IIRC, the excellent Punisher: War Zone feature film (200X?!) was based on the PWZ comic series.

 

Erm... Not really. The 2004 Punisher with Thomas Jane borrowed from War Zone #1 - #5 from 1992 (I still have a bagged WZ#1) with some of Welcome Back Frank (Spacker Dave, Joan, Mr Bumpo, the Russian fight)

 

Thomas Jane wasn't in Warzone, I believe...

 

What?

He referred to the 2008 War Zone with Ray Stevenson being based off the War Zone comic.

I said, no, the 2004 Punisher with Thomas Jane lifted from War Zone and Welcome Back, Frank.

 

Some amusing Daredevil infographics (moderate language warning and S2 spoiler warning)--more relevant to season 2 than 1.

http://viansian.co.vu/post/142842953623/avakadosatlaw-this-im-dying

 

So, it's interesting. Daredevil is still far and away better than 99.44% of what DC is putting out, even in a TV space (and I love me some Supergirl and The Flash)... but it still seems like they have this writer's block issue with "Episode 2" portions, and this felt more like Iron Man 2 rather than Age of Ultron.

It's still 10x better than Iron Man 2 -- because you can develop it more when you have 13 hours building on 13 hours, rather than 2 hours building on 2 hours -- but it's still a bit too overstuffed.

I mean, let's talk about the positives:

1) The Punisher. they (and Jon Bernthal) really, really nailed the concept and action of the Punisher character. Other than the "Punisher gets sent to jail" plot -- which would be out of place later on -- everything about him was pretty note-perfect, and even that gets a pass because a) it's the Punisher's origin story and he's not fully-baked yet, b) it led to some of the most compelling scenes of the show (the trial), and c) it gave us a surprise cameo by Wilson Fisk, who is still amazing.

2) Stick and Elektra. Basically a stripped-down retelling of Elektra's origin, and both play their parts well. It's a bit of a mish-mash in terms of the timing from comics to TV, but the narrative works much, much better with the TV world they've built.

3) Matt's religion. They do an excellent job, even while dropping the priest for much of the season, of dealing with Matt's inner-conflict especially as it relates to when he's realizing he's finally in over his head.

4) Foggy. I really liked Foggy this season, and I like that they established he's actually both a decent human being and a very good lawyer, while simultaneously being in over his head all of the time. I didn't find his exhortations to Matt to stop to be grating, like some, because otherwise it doesn't pay off the whole point -- that only Elektra truly understands Matt -- since Foggy's a different character, and equally as good in a different way.

But, yeah, some of it totally didn't work...

1) I love the Hand, and I love the name-checking of the Hand, but it causes the whole season to be overstuffed. What was their whole plan? What was the hole? Was the reason Matt couldn't sense their heartbeats because they were removed (a la the autopsy scars)?

2) The ending with the Blacksmith is too rushed, and it's never made explicitly clear that he ordered the hits on Reyes, etc. though he must have. Also, there's zero given to what happens to his organization now that he's dead, considering he had to have had minions still left -- since it's unlikely he was doing the hits himself.

3) Karen Page. Where people had complaints about Foggy, basically every time Karen wasn't onscreen with the Punisher felt weird to me, especially her newspaper scenes. Especially since she's basically the one 100% responsible for Ben Urich's death. I did like the redemption of the editor of the paper, but I could have done without that whole plot.

4) I was very surprised they went with this adaptation of Elektra's second-origin. It deprives us of when we eventually get Bullseye since htey never actually gave us this (the one thing that the craptastic Daredevil movie gave us):

Spoiler

I mean, all in all, I still go Jessica Jones > Daredevil S1 > Daredevil S2, but I'm still insanely looking forward to Luke Cage, etc.

 

Sorry, I have read very few of the Punisher comics - outside of the character's '80's appearances (DD #183-184 from 1983-ish; the 1985 Punisher mini-series, etc.).

I felt the 2004 Punisher film was decent and very underrated these days. That being said, they completely changed the origin of the character - in the original comics, Frank Castle was a Vietnam vet whose family was randomly killed in Central Park?! , NYC by mobsters - thereby prompting Frank to become the Punisher and wage a one-man war on crime. However, in this 2004 film the origin was completely different - he was some kind of federal agent whose entire family was specifically targeted because criminals wanted to get revenge on him.

IIRC, the 2008 Punisher: War Zone film was based on the comics of the same name - though, since I've never read them I could be wrong about that.

The Punisher in the Netflix DD S2 kept this origin to some extent (though not completely), and updated it to the 200X's.

Never seen the '89 Dolph Lundgren film, though have heard it's not as terrible as many make it out to be. I may catch this at some point...

 

I found The Raid style violence tiresome to be honest , and it could've done with some humor , a bit of light and shade .

btw - what ethnicity is Elektra in this ? in the comics she was Greek wasn't she ?

 

Yes, but she show got around that detail by Stick setting up her adoption by embassador Natchios.

 

I absolutely ADORED this season. DD s1 and s2 are my top two things out of the MCU so far. Charlie Cox owns the role completly. Can't wait to see where the defenders takes it next year, and DDs3 after that!

 

Yeah, I'd also say that Daredevil seasons 1 and 2 are the best MCU material that I've seen so far (with the possible exception of Captain America 2).

 

I don't think so.

 

Yeah, I didn't the sense that Melvin Potter (aka Gladiator) knew that Matt was blind and moreover, Matt wasn't him tipping off that he was. I was so happy when Potter gave Daredevil that weaponized baton. That was so cool to finally see Daredevil with that baton in the field.

I was so happy the way the Punisher came off in this film. As noted before, pages ago in this thread, I didn't like any of the previous iterations of the Punisher (even Ray Stevens' War Zone), as all of those versions wanted to paint the character with a softer side and redeemable. Whereas, Berthal's Punisher is beyond redemption and is uncompromising, much like Charles Bronson's Death Wish character which I always imagine the live action character to be. Therefore, I was so happy this morning to here that Netflix as ordered a solo Punisher series.

 

Punisher is cool, Elecktra is cool. Punisher putting one through Clancy Brown's brain as quickly and efficiently ending it was a very Punisher thing. They definitely upped the action (and associated Punisher related gore this season) this time around. However, I will admit my nerd tinge went off when Elecktra bought it via sai because, dammit, that's supposed to be Bullseye who does that. However, I was honestly not seeing it coming until, like, the second before it happened. I truly thought they were going to have her make it through Season 2, bring in Bullseye in Season 3 and THEN do it. I didn't mind the back half of episodes that are viewed as the weaker ones. It was missing a bit of the epic confrontation of Fisk v Daredevil that Season 1 led up to, however, if 1 Wilson Fisk showdown is tempered by a billion ninja showdown, that's not a bad trade off. I still don't know how The Hand resurrection works, or if it is even legit, but Stick cutting off the dude's head seems to fit.

In the "follow the progress of Claire Temple through the MCU" arc, I guess after quitting in Season 2 she's finally gonna open that damn Night Nurse superhero medic shope. However, I think there's also a "night nurse" in Doctor Strange played by Rachel McAdams. But I am TOTALLY OKAY if somehow we get a Rachel McAdams / Rosario Dawson "Night Nurses" show. In fact, cancel the Defenders. I want that instead.

The "too overstuffed" comment I don't quite abide by, mostly because this is 13 episodes so you kind of have to throw in different characters throughout the season as it progresses. Admittedly, the Punisher stuff was more badass simply due to the performance, but, hey, Ninjas! Lost crazy love! More ninjas! You can add different plots and it doesn't become Batman V Superman: Dawn of Overstuffed Plotting simply due to the size of a TV season vs a 2 hour-ish movie.

Fisk was only really in 3 episodes this season but he was perfectly used. Still acquiring power even behind bars. Him hollering "GET IT DONE!" to his lawyer as he hung up the phone behind the glass is one of my favourite little performance bits in this eason.

Didn't hate the Karen Page stuff, I thought it was an interesting way to look into Frank's backstory, and I absolutely love Debora Ann Woll's reactions to anything. Yeah, it's really weird how she goes from secretary to ace reporter (and allowed to write a free form opinion column no less) but, goddamnit, this is a world where space aliens attack from the sky. I can buy it.

guess we aren't going to get Season 3 for awhile. The Netflix series seems to already be in the pipeline is Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Defenders (showran by the same guys who showran Season 2 of Daredevil) and Punisher. So we may not get a Daredevil-centric Netflix show for awhile. But that's a hellova final few seconds to end the season on. which, since it's so immediate, it pretty much has to run into Defenders. But, as mentioned, same Season 2 guys are running Defenders so expect that.

Personal sad note: I got Netflix in January and went into Jessica Jones and Daredevil Season 2. Took about 3 months to do all of those. Now I got no more new Marvel Netflix shows for me. Why is Luke Cage coming out in September? Move it to July or something please, ahhhhh!

 

Now that I've finished Season 2 of 'Agent Carter', I can start Season 2 of 'Daredevil'

 

I wonder if the Netflix shows will ever quite "move up" in the timeline and reference stuff in Phase 2 / Phase 3 in the setup. right now, the 3 Netflix seasons seem to be perpetually stuck at post-Avengers. Not that I mind, it's a pretty fertile creative ground to start from.

 

The first half of Season 2 has been brilliant. Jon Bernthal as The Punisher is perfect casting, he's done a fantastic job. However, the Elektra character is really starting to grate on me. I don't remember her being like this in the comics. I can't believe Matt keeps falling for her tricks all the time, he's a smarter character than this.

 

That was my problem. Great character in her first few episodes and brilliantly performed, but it becomes a bit rinse repeat after episode ten with their relationship. That's why I prefer the Murdock and Claire relationship. It had way more development.

 

I fully and shamelessly ship Murdock and Page. Elektra is a bit more tragic because her inherent, well, crazy nature really means they can't be together but I never quite got why Matt was totally head over heels for her aside from "Hey, she can do kung fu like me!" which honestly can only get you so far (and maybe that's the point, they really aren't similar aside from the punching). But Matt and Karen has pathos in it, I think a lot of this has to do with Cox and Ann Woll are really good at looking forlorn. (Which is why the final scene is so good).

As for Claire? She's my girlfriend, dammit! Erm, I means. Dunno. I think Claire is too busy with keeping the various crazy superheroes of Hells Kitchen from destroying everything and patching them up to be a romantic interest. (also she has to open a Night Nurse practice!)

 

I would have been more sold by the Matt and Elektra romance had they either:

1. Actually killed her. This way, Matt's final plea of "lets leave all of this behind us" would have had real gravity and ultimately would have been the final reminder that they weren't meant to be

2. Keep Elektra alive but once they have their falling out, they either become enemies or being their own solo vigilantes. Same goals, totally different means. Pretty much like Punisher in a way.