Matrix: Reloaded, Revolutions and Animatrix (WARNING: Revolutions Spoilers)

and of course, Persephone's cleavage, which plays a memorable role in the movie

Agreed

 

All I know is the Trilogy BoxSet better include Revisisted, and have no snapper cases. I don't own The Matrix or The Matrix Revisited because of those crappy Snapper Cases. The AniMatrix released in a nice DVD case would be great also. Warner Brothers can shove there cardboard.

 

I just had a thought, perhaps some of the cgi in reloaded, was intended to look slightly fake!!!!

 

Seems like a waste of talent, doesn't it?

 

I've gotta admit that I did consider the possibility that The Burly Brawl Smith's looked CG because The Matrix was nearing it's re-load time and breaking down and failing to replicate the real world / agents / people satisfactorily anymore (all those Smith's causing the now unstable Matrix serious problems).

But then I thought... 'nah'. That would mean all the scenes set in The Matrix in Revolutions would have to look progressively worse and worse and worse... and they didn't.

 

The differing attitudes of Agent Smith regarding purpose in Reloaded and Revolutions are confusing me.

In Reloaded, just before the Burly Brawl, Smith talks about purpose, and that there's no escaping it. He says that he's there to take purpose from Neo. He implies that he knows destroying Neo (therefore removing Neo's purpose as 'The One') is now his purpose. He says that Neo only 'tried' to take his purpose from him at the end of The Matrix.

In Revolutions, at the end in the pit, Smith repeatedly asks Neo why he continues to fight when it is obvious he cannot win. He says that hope, love etc are just constructs of a feeble human mind struggling to understand an existance without meaning or purpose.

So in Reloaded it seems Smith is all for purpose, and in Revolutions it seems he thinks it all nonsense, and devoid of purpose, but then he says that he's had a vision of destroying Neo (which I think the Oracle gave him) therefore again implying that it's his purpose to destroy Neo.

If he knew that it was his purpose to destroy Neo (as he infers in Reloaded, and suggests becuase of his 'vision' at the end of Revolutions), then why did he allow himself to 'succeed' and clone himself in Neo when that would inevitably result in his deletion. He would surely be aware that if he beats Neo, and completes his purpose, then he would no longer have a purpose and would therefore cease to be. And... if Smith knows that it's his purpose to destroy Neo, and also knows there's no way to avoid it and so therefore goes through with it... why does he seem so pleased about the whole thing, and surprised when he eventually gets deleted?

So I guess what I'm sort of asking is, is Smith aware of his given purpose as Neo's negative or not? If so, then why did he allow himself to beat Neo (and if he knew he had no choice, why was he so happy about his work?). If not, then what was his little speech before the Burly Brawl all about? Or, does Smith still see himself as an Agent, only now an all powerful one simply wiping out everything in The Matrix with Neo just as an occasional diversion?

Does Smith think / know he has a purpose, or not? And if so, does he know what that purpose is? And if he doesn't know, then what does he think it is?

 

I was just thinking about this earlier today. When Smith says "She needs love, just like those cookies" or something to that extent, I know he is talking about Satti. But what does he mean by it? All of my friends and I cant agree on it so what is the consenus around here?

 

He didn't mean anything by it except to imply that that particular clone was made from Satti.... hence the Oracle calling Smith a bastard.











»Who dares wins«

 

gezvader28 questions:


1. Humans = batteries. I always thought this was a bit weak. I read somewhere that an early script had more of a complex reason - that they used human minds like computer space as well as the battery thing. It would've been nice to see this revealed more, since if we're just batteries they may as well have used cows or whatever and not had the rebellion problem.

Unless the machines operate on a VERY efficient level, this can be chalked up to a bit of bending the rules of science to fit the story. I like the storage scenario, but there may be other possible 3-d holographic containers that could store much more than the human mind is capable of.

2. What is the relationship between the programs and the machines? We know that machines are self aware, they do not want to be destroyed, just like us. But programs like the Merovingian etc. they are Rogue Programs, meant to be deleted, therefore the machines don't afford them the same respect.
So - are programs 'slaves' to the machines who also want freedom?
I wish this had been explored more.
The machines have 'programs' within them yeah? But they're individual, are these programs in the Matrix?

It occurrs to me that maybe the machines choose to live in a virtual world too, after all there's not much to live for in the real world.

i thin Animatrix touched on this a little, but I don't recall it clearly. the machines would have created the programs to care for the virtual world, while they atteneded the real world. I think it is safe to assume that machines do take part in the Matrix, maybe even have a whole second life there. However, those in charge may limit this so as to not have too many Merovingians running around.

3. Are we meant to infer that all the programs in the Matrix: Mero, Rogue programs etc. are all in danger from Smith's viral destruction too?
They didn't seem worried about it. The Mero should have known at least, he is a trafficker of information ...?

The merovingian seemed a bit surprised(annoyed) that Neo could deflect the machine gun rounds, he does not know all there is to know. He may be able to hide for awhile, but if Smith had taken over completely, then the Merovingian and anyone else in the wrold would have been taken over as well.

4. Sati is the product of two programs from the Machine world - yes? And they are taking her to hide in the Matrix, yes?
I guess this implies that the machine world has become a bit like ours, some machines are more equal than others.

I guess what I'm wondering with some of this is - what's the difference between the machines and the programs? Answered above.

 

how does neo do all the stuff that he does in the real-world?

Though the mystique of Neo's ability outside of the Matrix would be disfigured with a scientific explaination (like the force to Star Wars would be), I do have my own interpretation. All Matrix-born humans have electronics implanted and networked within their nueral circuitry. This enables Neo to transmit cammands to what ever it is that is controlling the sentinals. If this is the case, then why can't other humans do this? I'd have to say it's because Neo has parts of Smith implanted into his brain thus knows the commands.

To be honest, my theory sounds like a bunch of BS even to myself, which is why I'd rather keep the mystique of his powers and not have it explained. This is also why I wish midichlorians was never brought into the Star Wars universe. All we need to know is that Neo is the chosen one to fulfill the prophecy, and that the Jedi use the force.

I'd also like to point out the fact that they aren't in the Matrix anymore. The world as we know it, with all the laws of physics, is the the laws and conditioning of the Matrix. Who's to say that the force don't exist in the real world? Or that humans are really super beings with powers beyond our comprehension? Due to the conditioning we [the humans within the matrix] have recieved throughout a lifetime in the Matrix, we really don't know what we are capable of in the Matrix or the "real world". I guess in order to understand that, you'll need to "free your mind" and "unlearn what you have learned".

To answer your question in the most simplistic form, Neo is capable of commanding the sentinals and seeing without eyes because the machines enable him to, more than likely through the technology implemented into his nueral circuitry.

Why would the machines allow such a thing? If you don't know, then you missed one of the major points of Revolutions, that the machines are just as beautifull, capable of sentiant purpose, and qualified for "human emotions". Here's some backstory: The Animatrix shows us that the neglected machines were mankind's loyal servants. As our technology advanced, so did the machines and their thinking. Eventually, they advanced to sentiant beings with the desire to have the same respect and right to live that us humans have. Mankind, affraid of the machines, denied this right and began a machine genocide. Forced and segregated to the Middle East, the machines built their own nation, 01. 01's economy was so immensely successful, that the other world economies began to crumble. On the verge of a human/machine war, the machines send ambassadors to the United Nations with a proposal for peace and a plan for an economic system that would be beneficial to both mankind and machinekind. Mankind declines and the war begins. Eventually, the machines win despite mankind destroying the sky to cut off the the machines' main source of nourishment, solar energy. Since mankind was willing to fight these machines to the death without compromise, The Matrix was created.

Circa Revolutions, we get to meet Sati. As her father has pointed out, her only purpose is that of love. She is a program, the product of the machines, and a gift to her parents. Though we don't know it until the end of the movie and quite a bit of surmising, she convinces Neo that the machines are just as beautifull, capable of sentiant purpose, as qualified for "human emotions" as humans, and most importantly, capable of peace. That is why we have the compromise between Neo/humans, and the big machine head (leader of the machines)/machines.

The machines didn't promise peace for the mere purpose of killing Smith. The death of Smith was the collateral, Neo's sacrifice is what proved the humans to be worthy of the compromise.

I hope my long explaination has provided some insight to how Neo is capable of having his abilities outside of The Matrix. If you don't buy my theories, then I must ask you the following.........

Why keep the humans alive instead of just nuking them all [nuclear/at

 

Damn double post agents!!!

 

Geta did mention something about wanting the burly brawl to not look real. I don't remember where I heard that so I can't really PPOR

Anyways I'm a little late on the "Rev in December" thing but its good to see that people here are a little more logical than other places I visit on the web. I just doesn't make any sense to me at all. It would have to drop substantaly worse than Reloaded did for that to make any finacal sense.

I would be upset if it was true though. I'd at least like to have the option of completing the trilogy with individual DVDs before being forced to by the box set.

 

For some reason when Smith said "Cookies need love, like everything else" I thought they had sexually abused her.

I have no idea why that came first to mind (I guess I am a dirty man), and more importantly: why would a program do that?

Well, he is a bastard, I guess...


This confuses me...

 

I cried in bed after seeing Revolutions.

"Everything that has a beginning has an end."

Duh.

What I say:

"Everything that does so friggin brilliant always falls."

I was a whole lot disappointed by the Final Movie in the Matrix Trilogy. But I'll move on.

 

the actual quote was "Cookies need love, like everything does."

and he said it because that smith was copied over the girl.

 

^Yep. The Smith clone that said that was once Satti, and that is what The Oracle said to her as they were making cookies.


Shelby2

 

I don't think the machines were waiting for humans to get their act together so they could then wake up an clean the sky. The machines would be far in advance technologically and would be smart enough to do it themselves if it can be done.

I also don't believe they 'allowed' the humans to possibly wield super human powers, that is simply the result of trying to contain free will.

 

Yep. The Smith clone that said that was once Satti, and that is what The Oracle said to her as they were making cookies.

Oh, that's good, I hadn't noticed that.

Which brings me to another important question:

In Reloaded when Smith meets himself he says "everything is happening exactly as before"
"Well not exactly.."

So in the previous version Smith wasn't unplugged and able to clone himself - yeah?

And - if Smith remembers the last One then why is he surprised when Neo comes back to life in Matrix 1 ?

I'm trying to pin down what is different about this version of the One's story.

g

 

So does anyone know if there will be a docummentary released about the Matrix like 'Revisited' or will there be a super edition of the matrix films like the 4 disk LOTR ones?

 

It sounds to me like the previous Ones did not get as far as Neo did. There seems to be a hint in the constant surprised comments from the various adversaries.

Neo is probably the only one that died and came back to life before continuing on to the Architect.

 

So does anyone know if there will be a docummentary released about the Matrix like 'Revisited' or will there be a super edition of the matrix films like the 4 disk LOTR ones?

Yes and no. The Reloaded DVD had some brief bts stuff. There were lots of other bts shows like the one on HBO for both Reloaded and Revolutions and there have been rumors of that showing up on the box set versions. The brothers are looking at doing a super disc (blue laser) DVD with all three movies on it (like Lucas had talked about doing with the OT) so in that sense there will be.

There won't be anything like the LOTR sets though. There is nothing to "extend" with these movies. What they shot is what you saw. Like I said though there will definatly be a box set of all three movies and they are talking about doing a lot of diffrent things with it. For example the Reloaded and Rev DVDs are going to have a feature similar to the "follow the white rabbit" feature on the first DVD but it will take you to the cut scenes from the video games showing where they fit in with the trilogy.

As for when to expect it Silver said that Rev would come out in the fall and the box set might be out winter at the earliest spring at the latest. IGN posted a story saying that there will be no seperate DVD release for Rev and that it will only be available in the box set which is comming out in time for Christmas this year. I personaly don't believe that story but you never know.

 

If you had to give the trilogy an overall title... what would it be? What would you have titling your boxset of the films?

Personally, I would call it all:

The Matrix Revolutions

(and then just call each film, 01, 02 & 03)

I reckon that if people went into a trilogy called simply 'The Matrix Revolutions', more of them may key into what's going on quicker. I say this because I find myself enjoying the first two films much more now I know there's a 'revolution' underway, and I now see elements of the revolution throughout the whole story. I think 'The Matrix' and 'Reloaded' would benefit from the greater sense of direction that the word 'Revolution' implies (plus the word revolution can also mean a 'cycle').

But maybe that's just me.

EDIT: I know they could never have marketed 'The Matrix' as 'The Matrix Revolutions - 01' back in 1999... but I'm talking from a boxset viewpoint whereby even new viewers would see them back to back. There wouldn't be a three year gap.

 

The Matrix Trilogy.

 

Vaders...
"Neo is probably the only one that died and came back to life before continuing on to the Architect."

Taking the Architect and Reloaded at face value, all previous One's made it as far as the choice Neo was given in Reloaded. Choose to save the humans or choose to save Trinity. They chose to save the humans by "rebooting" the matrix.

And is anyone else leaning towards the choice that Neo made in Reloaded was to actually save the humans.

While some details are different, the events since Neo made his choice pretty much played out exactly like the Architect said they would. Only the result was Zion being saved and Trinity being dead.

I think the choice Neo made was to save Zion, and he misunderstood that choice, believing his choice was to save Trinity right up until he realized he had to sacrifice himself in Revolutions.

He had an epiphany. He understood the choice he made and why he made it. So Zion can live.

 

I think he just meant that Anomolies 1.0-6.0 didn't die before making it to the Architect, just that they didn't die and ressurect before getting to the Architect.