Maul vs. Vader?

double post. These boards are dodgy.

 

You guys can't look at things like you are... That's like saying Ali vs. Foreman = ...whatever. Fights don't turn out like that, because everyone fights differently. Maul was much more martial arts influenced than Vader, Vader uses more of a fencing style. Just because Obi-Wan or Luke beat either one of them doesn't determine the outcome of their actual duel.

As far as the age thing goes, I think that Yoda moved so fast because of his species, he may have used the force to forget the pain of arthritis. Rule of thumb: with age comes experience, with youth comes the strength and reflexes to take a couple of screw-ups...

 

Actually Master_Byrd the reason Yoda moved so fast is because that is his specialized fighting style. I wish I could supply a link for you (where is KenKenobi when you need him ), but I don't know where the thread is. There are 7 different fighting styles, and one of them specifies that the force can be used to jump and flip around at high speed to attack an opponent at all angles.

I agree that just because Obi-Wan defeated Maul it does not mean that Vader could since Obi-Wan schools Anakin in EP3. So by the who-beat-who logic Obi-Wan is the greatest lightsaber duelist of all time, and I just cannot believe that.

 

Uh...for those who cant grasp the whole point of the saga...Anakin/Vader would kill Maul fairly quickly. Maul was nothing. Eye candy and that is it. Lucas said so himself in an interview before EpII was released that Maul was really nothing. All it did was look cool (which was nice I will admit).

In ANH, Vader vs. Obi was a crap fight. If you want to dive into the movie, both hadnt fought in a long time. There was nervousness and it was Master vs. Apprentice so you could say they knew each other and could predicted each other's moves. Plus there was the taunting. I have no doubt, esp with Obi's age that Vader would have beaten him if it lasted longer.

Now look at it from the "making the movie" standpoint which most of you dont do. Watch the SE interviews of ANH. Lucas said he really was flying by his pants and didnt know what he was doing. I chalk all that up to a pretty boring fight. Notice how the ESB is ALOT faster and more intense than ANH. Maybe can chalk that up to Alec Guiness not being able to really swing that lightsabre and there was no stunt double for him to do so because Lucas really didnt think about it too much at that time (like he is doing now with Chris Lee).

As for Vader vs. Luke. Simple. THE POINT IS IS THAT HE NEVER WANTED TO KILL HIS SON. He said so to the Emperor in ESB, but when faced with the decision, he couldnt do it. Even Luke made the call in ROTJ, "You couldnt bring yourself to destroy me before....etc". He was right.

Now lets look at the PT. We know Anakin is the chosen one. He has more midi count than anyone. We know what he will become. I believe Anakin even in AOTC could have defeated Maul. Dooku's VAST experience gave him the advantage. In EPIII, Anakin will have learned his lesson, will go the darkside, and will KILL Dooku. Easy.

Vader is the man.

Nuff said.

 

Ah , another Vader vs Maul thread, i havn't seen one of these in while, i wonder why i took so long to notice it. Theres another one of these on the classic trilogy, there are more Darth Vader fans there too. And quite frankly i am mistified at their logic for Darth vader winning, i mean no matter how i look at it i can't see Vader out-dueling maul. Mual fought 2 very very good Jedi at once, with a very advanced weapon which is difficult to master, and beat them BOTH, OK so he didn't kill the 2nd one fast enough and he ended up sliced in 2, but in the lightsaber dueling part he clearly beat Obi Wan. Mual is better swordsmen then Vader, he is faster and his flips arn't solely flash, they HAVE a purpose, plus he had a mastry of Martial arts that vader didn't have. His attacks and stratagies on the battle field were excellent, he wore down Qui Gonn, one of the greatest Jedi swordsmen of the age, and killed him, ok with a little trouble but still, he anticipated soem of Obi wan's moves and used openings to force push or kick him . Maul is not stupid (most of the time) and he's a brilliant fighter, Lord Sidious does not hire imbescles as apprentices. Maul just got waaaay to overconfident at the end, it was pretty unwise to let his guard down but who would've expectd a Obi won kenobi who was still a padwan learner to do that? Darth Vader is very good too but he has some really unimpressive moments (did he slip at the end of ROTJ? it doesn't matter much but that was strange to me) He just doesn't seem as impressive as Darth maul to me. its nto jsut because he didn't flipity-flip around Darth Vader has a reputation for being reponsible for the destruction of the order, but this is assumptions, Ben said he HELPED the Emprie take down the Jedi, i think we'll have to wait for Epi III to amtch a btter jugdemnt on that, for all we know Darth Vader could fight off the enitre council like Neo did to agents, or...
he could slowly menacingly walk up to the Jedi,... summon his great force power, ...raise his hand, to... point at the Jedi he wants the stormtroopers to kill... Vader could froce choke maul? When has he even done that in a duel?! He never choked Luke into submission. Mual has shown at least enough force using in a bttle as Vader, force pushing obi wan and that small object at the door control, Vader ripped some objects off walls and flung others from the floor at luke in ESB, but that wasn't any more impressive than maul. Sahll we try math? Vader > Obi Kenobi > Maul? by that logic Ewoks > Luke > Vader > Emperor... wow Wicket should be master of the galaxy! he's the head of an army more powerfull than the chosen one, his son, and his master! Young Anikan vs Mual is more difficult to call in my opinio, maybe anibut this was about Vader, i somehow doubt our black armoured and respirarily (is that the right word? respiration..) challenged friend would not be able to do another Jedi purge by the time he gets his suit... he's past his pimre perhaps. Don't get me wrong Vader is a REALLY cool, character in many ways more than maul is. But ithink maul would win in a fight, in that way, maul is way cooler. Sorry about typing mistakes. its late, wher ei'm writing this, and i also might have forgoten somethinge.. well then let the discussing continue!!! i'm tired..

 

Character shields don't matter in a debate like this. The fact that Vader is a main character and Maul a one shot deal to get more money from a movie that was sort of vague in its relation to the three juggernauts that preceded it is irrelevent. All we're supposed to go on is what we've seen on screen. What we've seen on screen indicates Maul would win.

Vader is a very strong fighter. But the problem is that he's not very nimble. If he accidently overshoots himself, he leaves himself wide open. Whether or not he was trying to kill Luke during their battle on Bespin is irrelevent when we consider that he was not trying to get killed. He made an attack that the much less experienced Luke was able to exploit. He's a tank, not a jet fighter.

Maul, on the other hand, is an incredibly fast and nimble and alert athlete. His tactic before separating the two Jedi was to keep them bumbling over each other to attack him. When facing not one, but two skilled fighters, he can only make one mistake. Yet, it is not he who makes the mistakes, but exploits them such as when Obi Wan twirls his lightsabre at an inopportune moment and receives a heel to the face (an action of contempt towards Obi Wan, Maul didn't consider him enough of a threat to even bother killing at the moment). Remember, Maul was trained from day one to be a killing machine. By TPM, he is a killing machine in the prime of his craft.

Maul vs Vader. Personally, I'd suspect the battle would last all of fifteen seconds. Vader's armor just simply doesn't allow for the lightning fast ripostes that he would need to deal with both ends of Maul's lightsabre. Vader was no lightweight in lightsabre technique, but he simply wasn't the master of his craft like Darth Maul was.

BTW, did you notice how Vader didn't attempt to choke Ben? Seems like a good idea to choke an old man to me, it probably wouldn't take very long. How about the fact that Vader didn't throw objects at Luke during their second battle. More likely it's because either force users are trained in how to counter such parlor tricks or that doing so would have left his concentration wide open for his opponent to use the Force on him. What about the fact that Maul didn't use any Force powers against either of the Jedi he faced? Dooku is the only sith to have used Force powers during combat and when facing the two experienced Jedi, it didn't work. Force powers aren't used during lightsabre duels when there's an actual threat.

 

Without a doubt, Vader would win.

 

Vader: I've been waiting for you Lord Maul. We meet again at last. When I left you I was but an obnoxious brat,now I am the Master..
What? Down already? Perhaps you are not as strong as Sidious thought..but I'll give you a chance.

Maul: At last I will reveal myself..
(Lightsaber posing and prancing follow)

Vader: If you will not fight then you will meet your destiny.

(A flurry of lightsaber clashes. Maul falls)

Vader: All too easy.

End

 

If Ob-Wan wasn't in the prequels, we'd have plenty of evidence from ANH that he couldn't possibly defeat much of anyone in a lightsaber fight (age? we've seen it barely matters. out of practice? you really think he'd slack off practicing when he knew fully well that he'd have to train luke and face vader again someday?). Now we know differently (still not convinced that he's going to beat vader fair and square in EIII though).

The way the fights were choreogaphed figures in heavily in these kinds of discussion, but this post completely destroys that kind of reasoning with hard logic.

Let's put it this way- I'm confident that in the incredibly unlikely event that in Episode III Darth Vader circa Empire and Darth Maul circa Phantom traveled through time, met each other and fought, Vader would certainly win, and he'd do it in a cool-looking way.

 

I noticed that most, if not all, the people who replyed to this thread gives the victory to Darth Vader.

I think Darth Maul will win because if you analyze the lighsaber fights in the movies, Maul is quicker, has better moves, and could handle two Jedi at a time. Vader's fights in the OT are so-so. He was most powerful in ESB, but still can not compete with Maul. He is slow.

This type of comparison is like matching up Michael Jordan's Bulls against Bill Russell's Celtics. Two completely different eras and times. Just like Maul and Vader.

I read a comic book (EU) that put Maul and Vader against each other. Vader won. But that is EU and some fans don't take EU into consideration.

 

Maul is a more exciting villian but the sheer force and will of Vader would eventually defeat Maul.

A younger Anakin would have had much more trouble though.

Side Note: I recently had an idea about a video game. "Star Warsuels" Wouldn't it be interesting to play as Obi-Wan, Vader or Anakin, Luke, Maul, Yoda, Mace, or any Jedi/Sith in a duel against another? This maybe the only way to answer this question.

 

Maul is more a showoff but let'S face it, he got defeated by Obi-Wan. Anakin/Vader is suppose to have killed most of the remaining Jedis. Vader is stronger in the Force.

 

those two long post prove nothing he was killed by a padawan a simple padawan for all of his nimbleness and skill his pre recognitions skills where crap .vader was defeated by a jedi knight .who has skywaler blood nuff said !!!!!

 

i think darth vader would win because he has the force

 

i started this thread and i clearly think maul would win because even if you are stronger in the force, vader is drastically impaired by his mechanical suit, so even though you have the force, that in my mind doesnt make up for his handicap.....the suit

 

bump

 

Effortless skill has a point, and I agree.

 

I would have to go w/ Maul. Vader was not physically fit enough to handle the raw athleticism of Maul. Vader is an intimidating and awesome figure. But he is way out of his prime. He is basically crippled in the OT, relying on the suit for most of life's function. Supposedly, he would have lost to Obi-Wan if Obi-Wan didn't sacrifice himself (I think I heard Lucas saying something that Obi-Wan was merely toying w/ Vader in the duel).

 

----SLR------is ur signature correct? was there really a simpsons episode like that? damn i missed it if there was!

 

Yeah it was great. I think it was from last season. Lenny and Carl each picked up sticks oozing w/ green radiation and started fighting w/ them each exclaiming their dislike for one of the prequels.

The only other skit that was funnier was the SNL the weekend of the premier, in which they had Alf and an Eric Cartman doll on the Jedi Council.

 

man nothings better than simpsons and star wars together hahaha

 

I think that a point that is being missed is that flashy martial arts doesnt benefit other than at the box office... True masters are controlled and powerful. No wasted energy from flipping all around and spinning, just simple powerful movements.

Vader was the master. People are also claiming that he was tired at the end of RoTJ. my answer to that...Of course he was, he wasnt channeling the force through him, he was in a wash of positive emotions, and didnt want to kill his son. A far cry from the anger and hate driven state that he would be in while fighting Maul. This would allow him to focus his energies and distroy maul quickly. Maul is all eye candy and was distroyed by a padawan learner... Vader distroyed himself in order to save his son and defeat Palpatine.

Vader by a landslide...

P.S.

Anybody ever read shadows? remember the scene where vader temporaraly heals his lounges? Remember the part about his dueling droids?

 

Maul win in less than one minute.

Vader is an invalid cripple who on life support.

The only people he can beat are elderly men and untrained boy.

 

flipping around is wasted then huh? well count yoda out then! give me a break

 

Star Wars Tales Volume II already covered the issue with Vader ultimately winning the battle.

And I don't understand the obsession with pitting the two of them against each other. Me thinks they would make a mighty fine team.